What do you consider the most dire moment in a Bond film?

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Lupe's declaration of deep love for Bond after only meeting him for 2.6 seconds.
    I think she had already received some personal 'Bond'age the previous night which perhaps explained her feelings, no matter how cringe worthy the delivery was.

    More pathetic imho was her sudden affection for President Lopez.

    @bondjames, I suppose we are intended to see Lupe as a "bed hopper" of sorts, a woman who goes where the winds favor her. I guess the failure in that is Lupe's character, which is rather empty and beyond the scene where Bond interrogates her, she has no real impact (and Bond is the one that makes the impact in that moment, not her). She's at times sympathetic, but much like Tiffany Case before her (another bed hopper) she is written completely differently in the second half of the film from the promising first and the empathetic and quiet woman of abuse is just another dimensionless gold digger of sorts by the end.

    I personally don't know what Bond saw in her outside of his attraction to damaged and troubled women. Just Pam's legs alone are worth the price of admission. ;)
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 , I could understand Lupe's attraction to Bond. It was forged in trying circumstances: once in Mexico, and again on the boat. I can imagine that she was attracted to his no nonsense but somewhat caring approach (he tried to help her down south and then expressed concern about her lashings on the boat). When he ended up at Sanchez's, the die was cast. Given his renown expertise in bed, she surely started to hear heavenly choirs singing after their night together.

    So I don't have a problem with her falling for Bond. As you say, she seemed to sleep around and perhaps confused love with lust.

    I agree though that she started off far more promisingly than she ended up, and that was unfortunate. I thought they could have done more with her character, but Soto sadly had very limited range.

    Lowell's Pam was playing hard to get, and Bond played her all the way to the end for what was most likely a most gratifying off camera finale.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Lupe's declaration of deep love for Bond after only meeting him for 2.6 seconds.
    I think she had already received some personal 'Bond'age the previous night which perhaps explained her feelings, no matter how cringe worthy the delivery was.

    More pathetic imho was her sudden affection for President Lopez.

    @bondjames, I suppose we are intended to see Lupe as a "bed hopper" of sorts, a woman who goes where the winds favor her. I guess the failure in that is Lupe's character, which is rather empty and beyond the scene where Bond interrogates her, she has no real impact (and Bond is the one that makes the impact in that moment, not her). She's at times sympathetic, but much like Tiffany Case before her (another bed hopper) she is written completely differently in the second half of the film from the promising first and the empathetic and quiet woman of abuse is just another dimensionless gold digger of sorts by the end.

    I personally don't know what Bond saw in her outside of his attraction to damaged and troubled women. Just Pam's legs alone are worth the price of admission. ;)
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 , I could understand Lupe's attraction to Bond. It was forged in trying circumstances: once in Mexico, and again on the boat. I can imagine that she was attracted to his no nonsense but somewhat caring approach (he tried to help her down south and then expressed concern about her lashings on the boat). When he ended up at Sanchez's, the die was cast. Given his renown expertise in bed, she surely started to hear heavenly choirs singing after their night together.

    So I don't have a problem with her falling for Bond. As you say, she seemed to sleep around and perhaps confused love with lust.

    I agree though that she started off far more promisingly than she ended up, and that was unfortunate. I thought they could have done more with her character, but Soto sadly had very limited range.

    Lowell's Pam was playing hard to get, and Bond played her all the way to the end for what was most likely a most gratifying off camera finale.

    It's entirely possible that the film was rewritten, or refocused, away from Soto to avoid her character coming off as more weak and forced.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Lupe's declaration of deep love for Bond after only meeting him for 2.6 seconds.
    I think she had already received some personal 'Bond'age the previous night which perhaps explained her feelings, no matter how cringe worthy the delivery was.

    More pathetic imho was her sudden affection for President Lopez.

    @bondjames, I suppose we are intended to see Lupe as a "bed hopper" of sorts, a woman who goes where the winds favor her. I guess the failure in that is Lupe's character, which is rather empty and beyond the scene where Bond interrogates her, she has no real impact (and Bond is the one that makes the impact in that moment, not her). She's at times sympathetic, but much like Tiffany Case before her (another bed hopper) she is written completely differently in the second half of the film from the promising first and the empathetic and quiet woman of abuse is just another dimensionless gold digger of sorts by the end.

    I personally don't know what Bond saw in her outside of his attraction to damaged and troubled women. Just Pam's legs alone are worth the price of admission. ;)
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 , I could understand Lupe's attraction to Bond. It was forged in trying circumstances: once in Mexico, and again on the boat. I can imagine that she was attracted to his no nonsense but somewhat caring approach (he tried to help her down south and then expressed concern about her lashings on the boat). When he ended up at Sanchez's, the die was cast. Given his renown expertise in bed, she surely started to hear heavenly choirs singing after their night together.

    So I don't have a problem with her falling for Bond. As you say, she seemed to sleep around and perhaps confused love with lust.

    I agree though that she started off far more promisingly than she ended up, and that was unfortunate. I thought they could have done more with her character, but Soto sadly had very limited range.

    Lowell's Pam was playing hard to get, and Bond played her all the way to the end for what was most likely a most gratifying off camera finale.

    It's entirely possible that the film was rewritten, or refocused, away from Soto to avoid her character coming off as more weak and forced.
    Yes, that's quite possible. All in all she wasn't that bad, but she could have been so much more as you said.

    She's the kind of character they would have killed off in prior films (like Andrea from TMWTGG). This is the first time I can recall where they kept the secondary girl alive (OP too, but Magda was on the same side as Octopussy).

    Glen may have gotten confused as to how to wrap it all up tidily!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    bondjames wrote: »
    This is the first time I can recall where they kept the secondary girl alive (OP too, but Magda was on the same side as Octopussy).

    DN, FRWL, in OHMSS only the secondary girls survive.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited September 2017 Posts: 9,020
    nothing ever will beat this for ridiculousness....

    https://youtu.be/0fFw7rhoO0A

    and this:

    https://youtu.be/vFi1yZFXI5o

    makes watching the CGI surfing a pleasure trip
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    This is the first time I can recall where they kept the secondary girl alive (OP too, but Magda was on the same side as Octopussy).

    DN, FRWL, in OHMSS only the secondary girls survive.
    I always considered Honey, Tanya and Tracy to be primary for some reason.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,258
    uh... okay?...
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    nothing ever will beat this for ridiculousness....

    https://youtu.be/0fFw7rhoO0A

    and this:

    https://youtu.be/vFi1yZFXI5o

    makes watching the CGI surfing a pleasure trip

    The two Bardem moments are distinctly Bond. The CGI tsunami is trash.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    RC7 wrote: »
    nothing ever will beat this for ridiculousness....

    https://youtu.be/0fFw7rhoO0A

    and this:

    https://youtu.be/vFi1yZFXI5o

    makes watching the CGI surfing a pleasure trip

    The two Bardem moments are distinctly Bond. The CGI tsunami is trash.

    more like distinctly Austin Powers, which at least was good at intentional parody.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    nothing ever will beat this for ridiculousness....

    https://youtu.be/0fFw7rhoO0A

    and this:

    https://youtu.be/vFi1yZFXI5o

    makes watching the CGI surfing a pleasure trip

    The two Bardem moments are distinctly Bond. The CGI tsunami is trash.

    more like distinctly Austin Powers, which at least was good at intentional parody.

    Nothing like Powers.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 12,837
    @Shardlake I love Q in the field. Sums up why I like LTK so much actually. It manages to be ballsy and fresh and different while still feeling distinctly Bond. Desmond was a big part of that and it was sweet seeing him go out of his way to help Bond. The winking fish is poor but I liked the ending with Bond and Pam (Dalton's Bond had two quite sweet endings, he really captured the romanticism of Fleming's Bond imo) and it's a blink and you'll miss it moment that doesn't do anything to diminish all the brilliant stuff we got before it imo. LTK isn't the most consistent film of the series fair enough, but the good bits are just so so good. It's my favourite Bond film. You mentioned Dalton and Davi's final showdown in the desert, that for me is the best scene of the series. It just feels so earned and badass after watching the whole film build to that point and the brilliant finale, and then the aftermath with Bond stumbling off into the desert, dry heaving, covered in blood sand and cocaine, collapsing against a rock relieved that it's finally all over. Perfect. It really feels like he's gone through the ringer. I'd have loved a third Dalton film more than anything but at least he went out on a high and got his perfect Bond film, I can't picture anything in a third film ever beating that final showdown with Sanchez. Love that film. It doesn't have any moments that come close to the nadir but it has a fair few that come close to the peak of the series imo, and that final showdown in the desert actually is the peak of the series for me.

    @BondJason Bardem is one of the best Bond villains ever and his whole introduction scene is fantastic. I am surprised that with some of the crap we've gotten over the years that's what you picked as the nadir. What makes you hate it so much?

    Anyway I think for me it might be the TMWTGG sumo sequence (everyone talks about the slidewhistle, nobody mentions the horrific trombone/trumpet wah wah sound during the sumo fight) right through to the boat chase. The tsunami surfing I've come to enjoy, it's awful but it's part of DAD's crappy over the top B movie charm. And Bond breaking a landspeed record then escaping a falling glacier and surfing a tsunam at least sounds cool on paper. That whole section of TMWTGG is just a shambles.

    QoS will always be my least favourite but I think if I had to try and pick an objective (well as close to objective as anyone can be) worst Bond film TMWTGG would probably be it. It's just cheap and nasty and bad. The guy who directed Goldfinger, Roger Moore and Christopher Lee facing off, John Barry doing the score. That could have, should have been a top five Bond film and instead we get Bond grabbing a sumo wrestlers arse and cringey karate schoolgirls. Can't imagine how original fans must have felt watching that one in the cinema. I think TMWTGG and DAD are the only genuinely bad Bond films, but at least with DAD you get the sense that they're trying to make something good. I don't know what anyone was thinking when it came to this



    And this



    Thank god for TSWLM.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    RC7 wrote: »
    nothing ever will beat this for ridiculousness....

    https://youtu.be/0fFw7rhoO0A

    and this:

    https://youtu.be/vFi1yZFXI5o

    makes watching the CGI surfing a pleasure trip

    The two Bardem moments are distinctly Bond. The CGI tsunami is trash.

    more like distinctly Austin Powers, which at least was good at intentional parody.

    Bit rich of you to dig out Bardem for being Austin Powers yet SP, which nicks its big plot twist from Goldmember, is apparently a work of genius.
  • RC7 wrote: »
    nothing ever will beat this for ridiculousness....

    https://youtu.be/0fFw7rhoO0A

    and this:

    https://youtu.be/vFi1yZFXI5o

    makes watching the CGI surfing a pleasure trip

    The two Bardem moments are distinctly Bond. The CGI tsunami is trash.

    more like distinctly Austin Powers, which at least was good at intentional parody.

    Bit rich of you to dig out Bardem for being Austin Powers yet SP, which nicks its big plot twist from Goldmember, is apparently a work of genius.

    +1.

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    RC7 wrote: »
    nothing ever will beat this for ridiculousness....

    https://youtu.be/0fFw7rhoO0A

    and this:

    https://youtu.be/vFi1yZFXI5o

    makes watching the CGI surfing a pleasure trip

    The two Bardem moments are distinctly Bond. The CGI tsunami is trash.

    more like distinctly Austin Powers, which at least was good at intentional parody.

    Bit rich of you to dig out Bardem for being Austin Powers yet SP, which nicks its big plot twist from Goldmember, is apparently a work of genius.

    Wasn't that Star Trek Into Darkness?
    At least the plot twist doesn't overact in your face in clownesque fashion. It's merely one sentence in a film.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    SPECTRE is garabge nuff said!
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    But SP features Saint Craig, doesn't that cause a short circuit?
  • Shardlake wrote: »
    SPECTRE is garabge nuff said!

    I really loved it. We got a Bond who ejects from his bespoke Aston Martin after shaking off the invulnerable henchman with a built in flamethrower but then ends up facing him in a fistfight later on whilst wearing a white dinner jacket on a train taking him to Blofeld's base which he later escaped with the exploding watch he got from Q earlier. I wish I could take that description back in time to my 2008 self, just as reassurance that it'd all be okay in the end.

    SF was great but SP was on another level, really ticked all my fanboy boxes. It was so unashamedly old school. No pretentiousness, just James Bond being James Bond, but like the rest of the Craig films it was still a fleshed out, human James Bond instead of a cartoon character. The perfect blend of both styles. Best since the Dalton films for me.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    SF was great but SP was on another level, really ticked all my fanboy boxes. It was so unashamedly old school. No pretentiousness, just James Bond being James Bond, but like the rest of the Craig films it was still a fleshed out, human James Bond instead of a cartoon character. The perfect blend of both styles. Best since the Dalton films for me.

    Do me a favour.

    'The Dead Are Alive' ruining the GB as Mendes shoves his themes down your throat?
  • SF was great but SP was on another level, really ticked all my fanboy boxes. It was so unashamedly old school. No pretentiousness, just James Bond being James Bond, but like the rest of the Craig films it was still a fleshed out, human James Bond instead of a cartoon character. The perfect blend of both styles. Best since the Dalton films for me.

    Do me a favour.

    'The Dead Are Alive' ruining the GB as Mendes shoves his themes down your throat?

    True but that's the only pretentious moment in the film that I can think of. There's certainly nothing as bad as "haha an exploding pen piss off we're way better than that now aren't we guys", or M reciting poetry. I think QoS felt like it was ashamed to be a Bond film. SF was much better but felt a bit smug and up its own arse at times. It was as if they were dipping their toes in but didn't want to commit to a Bond film with all the trappings, they tried to have it both ways. But with SP they just seemed to fully embrace it and went all out to make a great classic Bond film that still felt fresh and modern, ala TSWLM and GE.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    The hatred for SP by the Skyfall worshippers is beyond ridiculous.
    I guess it must have hurt so much to see Craig portraying a Bond that evoked a real Bond feeling and even worse was evoking some Brosnan/Moore vibes OMG OMG....
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Somebody shut off the music, a broken record is playing.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,258
    @BondJasonBond006 , there's only one Sir Rog-- PB didn't do him, DC certainly can't do him.
  • The hatred for SP by the Skyfall worshippers is beyond ridiculous.
    I guess it must have hurt so much to see Craig portraying a Bond that evoked a real Bond feeling and even worse was evoking some Brosnan/Moore vibes OMG OMG....

    Personally, I don't agree - I think Craig's performance in SP is a natural progression from the ending of SF, and there are many character moments from Bond in there that are great. My biggest gripes come with how most of the other cast is wasted, save maybe Batista. There are other reasons why I don't care for SPECTRE but Craig isn't one of them.

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    peter wrote: »
    @BondJasonBond006 , there's only one Sir Rog-- PB didn't do him, DC certainly can't do him.

    That's not the point. SP resembles the classic Bond films with PB and RM. And that's painful for people who thought SF was going to be repeated.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,258
    If you're comparing SP to classic RM films, I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Just because they try and make DC upchuck a few uncomfortable one liners, as they did in SF too, doesn't make it a genuine throwback.

    And the PB films, for the most part, are their own unique set of films, ensconced in 90s action cinema. They should never be replicated, and, I'd say, SP, for all its flaws (and there are many), is far more sophisticated than any Brosnan film save for GE-- and GE is its own beast.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    There is a reason why so many Brosnan era fans love SP. The writing's on the wall for everyone to see who wants to.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,258
    I guess so-- I don't agree, though. I don't know how you could see GE, TND (with far better action, minus the third act, Tarantino/woo rip off with two guns in each hand shoot-outs), TWINE or DAD to anything in SP. Maybe I'm blind. Plus I see nothing in DC that screams out PB. Sorry.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    As a huge Craig fan, I don't see how his films are anymore sophisticated than Brosnan's films are. CR has the benefit of being Fleming material adapted properly. QOS had a stylish look to it but It wasn't really sophisticated. Skyfall was more or less a remake of TWINE. And while SP visually has a classic 60's look to it, FosterBrothergate was as bad as if not worse than Gustav Graves being Colonel Moon which is the direst moment for me in a Bond film.

    Now don't get me wrong, I love Pierce and Daniel's films greatly but Daniels are not better than Pierce's they are on equal footing.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @peter

    I don't mean evoking Brosnan, the actor. SP evokes the Brosnan-era films, mainly GE, very clearly even. Tank chase/plane chase for instance...just one of many examples.

    Also DC has many moments that are so Moore that it practically jumps at you. Noding from the plane, or how he lands on the sofa (that could be Brozza too). Just two of many examples.

    SP clearly headed for the classic 80's/90's Bond with a 60's look in many parts.

    Therefore SP for me personally is the one and only proper Bond film with Craig. And while I find the four year gap inacceptable I at least hope we'll get a fifth Craig film that will be again 100% Bond and not something resembling Bond slightly...
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    The hatred for SP by the Skyfall worshippers is beyond ridiculous.

    There's only one person being ridiculous with their histrionic and extreme black and white view of the world.

    SF is a very good Bond film, SP merely a good Bond film. I neither worship SF nor hate SP. But of the two SP's script flaws are what leads most to see it as a flawed effort and a missed opportunity.
    That's not the point. SP resembles the classic Bond films with PB

    Hmm. Depends how you define classic I suppose.
    And that's painful for people who thought SF was going to be repeated.

    You seem to have a phenomenal perception of what people think. I don't know many people who criticise SP because it wasn't SF. For the most part they tend to criticise it because it had a badly cobbled together script and then pissed all over Fleming.
    Noding from the plane, or how he lands on the sofa (that could be Brozza too). Just two of many examples.

    Oh dear. Visual gags is where it's at is it? Maybe in the next film we can have Clifton James resurrected with CGI and pushed into a canal by an elephant? Or has anyone got the double take pigeon's agent's number? Perhaps it cold be persuaded to come out of retirement?

    Therefore SP for me personally is the one and only proper Bond film with Craig.

    Each to their own I suppose but I would contend that CR with a spine of pure Fleming running through it and a Bond that bleeds is far more 'proper' than SP.
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