SPECTRE in the Craig Era: Almost Everywhere and yet Almost Nowhere?

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  • Posts: 1,566
    Mallory wrote: »
    S.P.E.C.T.R.E as an organisation is a huge miss for me in the Craig-era.
    • Why introduce them in the fourth film of an actor's tenure, when it wasnt assured he would go on to a fifth. It would have been better to have kept them back and had them as the main ongoing threat for Bond Number 7.
    • Aside from the name (does today's SPECTRE use the acronym?), Blofeld and the Octopus logo, they bear almost no resemblance to the old S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Do they have a ranking system with Numbers anymore?
    • The organisation is so poorly explained. At least with 60's S.P.E.C.T.R.E we broadly knew how the organisation functioned, what its aims were, and how it worked. Nothing here in the Craig-era.
    • How exactly does Quantum roll into S.P.E.C.T.R.E? Is it even properly explained in the films?
    • How is Silva connected to Quantum/S.P.E.C.T.R.E? Awful retconning that seriously undermines Skyfall if you pick up on it.
    • You dont see S.P.E.C.T.R.E actually do anything so they never feel threatening or powerful. In the 60's you saw them steal nuclear warheads, kidnap space rockets, developing Omega viruses and launching orbital strikes. Best you get out of the Craig-Era is some poorly developed IT system and a (admittedly cool) raid on a laboratory in NTTD.

    1.They didn't have the rights until and once they had them they could.not.resist. Not to mention they haven't had a fully fleshed-out script well in advance in who knows how long, so they may have felt the larder was empty so let's use that thing we finally can use again.
    2.Today's SPECTRE does not seem to use it as an acronym. Let's face it, even as of the date when Fleming first wrote it, it was awfully corny. Darn near the camp in the Batman TV show which came a few years later.
    3.As for the org being poorly explained, it is not in SPECTRE's interest to do so. Of course, we are used to villains not simply killing Bond right off - to the degree of self-parody - and saying far too much to him, but it's up to Bond to figure it out.
    4.How does Quantum roll into SPECTRE ? It struck me as one of SPECTRE's enterprises. I thought that was pretty clear, no ?
    5.How is Silva connected to Q/SP ? I understood that, whether Silva realized it or not, he was serving Q/SP's interests and goals, and they helped him, even if from the shadows. That sort of activity occurs in the present day. Not to get political on here, but bad people have been and are influencing other people, whether those other people know it or believe it or not.
    SPECTRE in the Craig films seems to prefer a low profile, wreaking havoc, certainly, but avoiding notice and certain not sending Ransom Notes. The Austin Powers films quite effectively skewered (ahem, one sympathises) that with satire....which suggests the Bond producers would not want to use something the Powers (or Kingsman) films parodied. The problem with this suggestion is that the Bond producers most certainly DID use plot points from films which came into existence and thrived based on parodying Bond - from Powers' "I used to think you were crazy but now I can see your / you're nuts !" having the evil multi-film villain turn out to be the hero's brother (SP and NTTD), and from Kingsman having the villain ready to reduce the population of the planet by turning on devices he managed to disseminate among the populace widely and deeply (NTTD). And THIS is part of something we've sadly seen in Bond films since LALD - a series which formerly SET trends starts borrowing from OTHER film trends. Ok, so you can't reasonably expect to be on top forever, but their blatant borrowing was downright embarassing.
    At any rate, to return to your points, I think SPECTRE makes more sense now than it did before.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 2,161
    In NTTD, the SPECTRE gathering gave off a vibe more reminiscent of Andy Warhol's Factory than of a powerful world-encompassing criminal cabal.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    It's funny how the SPECTRE meeting in SP, looks more eerie than the one in NTTD. The trailers of NTTD were really deceptive and misleading, because in the trailers, the scenes in Cuba were presented as very harrowing, little did we know it was going to be comic, then right after the comedy, Felix is killed...Wow!
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2022 Posts: 7,526
    Well, it wasn’t a meeting, it was a birthday party. Personally I didn’t get “harrowing” from the Cuba scenes in the trailers, but maybe that’s just me.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Well, it wasn’t a meeting, it was a birthday party. Personally I didn’t get “harrowing” from the Cuba scenes in the trailers, but maybe that’s just me.

    Yeah, sure. It's a party. But from the trailers, it felt as if SPECTRE were going to be twice as nefarious than they previously were.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,975
    They are completely different tonally. One is eerie and has little tension. The other is almost camp but moves.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Well, it wasn’t a meeting, it was a birthday party. Personally I didn’t get “harrowing” from the Cuba scenes in the trailers, but maybe that’s just me.

    Yeah, sure. It's a party. But from the trailers, it felt as if SPECTRE were going to be twice as nefarious than they previously were.

    I suppose, if that's what you got from the trailers, that's what you got.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 2022 Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Well, it wasn’t a meeting, it was a birthday party. Personally I didn’t get “harrowing” from the Cuba scenes in the trailers, but maybe that’s just me.

    Yeah, sure. It's a party. But from the trailers, it felt as if SPECTRE were going to be twice as nefarious than they previously were.

    I suppose, if that's what you got from the trailers, that's what you got.

    Yeah, Maybe it's just me. Because from the trailers, I never imagined that SPECTRE party to be that lightweight. From the trailers, there were even several shots of Paloma looking very concerned, that made me think Bond really is in perilous waters in Cuba....which he will of course, find a unique way to escape and will lead him to doing something very Bondian like he always does when we think it's all over for him.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    It’s true, in the film, the sequence was very light. I think it’s fair to have expected something a little darker given Spectre’s involvement, so fair enough.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,511
    Since NTTD I've wondered what Spectre would have been like if, they would have gave it a different title and kept Blofeld and Spectre a secret until the film

    Imagine if Spectre had been called something else, have Bond go on what appears to be a routine mission, defeat the villain 2/3's of the way through and then discover Spectre was behind it. Have Bond infiltrate that brilliant boardroom scene, see that Spectre are a massive organisation and have the reveal be Waltz was Blofeld. Which would have set up Bond 25
  • Posts: 1,707
    Quantum / Spectre in the Craig era was handled so poorly I'm glad this version of the organization/s have been killed off and we can hopefully move onto a really well done Spectre.
  • delfloria wrote: »
    Quantum / Spectre in the Craig era was handled so poorly I'm glad this version of the organization/s have been killed off and we can hopefully move onto a really well done Spectre.

    Rushing into using SPECTRE midway through Craig's run was a clear mistake. They had a perfectly good nefarious organization going already and only would have had to wait another two films to thoughtfully use SPECTRE for the full run of Bond #7. I actually hope they'll wait until Bond #8 to use SPECTRE again, but I suspect now that they have the rights they'll try to make SPECTRE a part of everything.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I still feel Martin Campbell should have directed Craig in another Bond film. Maybe SP or NTTD.
  • Posts: 1,566
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I still feel Martin Campbell should have directed Craig in another Bond film. Maybe SP or NTTD.

    Not feasible. There's a law somewhere that Martin Campbell directs the first film for a new Bond actor, and that's it. It's part of the law that already was in place much longer that Bond films do not visit Canada, Australia or New Zealand.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Since62 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I still feel Martin Campbell should have directed Craig in another Bond film. Maybe SP or NTTD.

    Not feasible. There's a law somewhere that Martin Campbell directs the first film for a new Bond actor, and that's it. It's part of the law that already was in place much longer that Bond films do not visit Canada, Australia or New Zealand.

    Oh, Yeah...true. Just my wish though.
  • Posts: 1,707
    Since62 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I still feel Martin Campbell should have directed Craig in another Bond film. Maybe SP or NTTD.

    Not feasible. There's a law somewhere that Martin Campbell directs the first film for a new Bond actor, and that's it. It's part of the law that already was in place much longer that Bond films do not visit Canada, Australia or New Zealand.

    I've heard of that law.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Kicking: Impossible
    Posts: 6,721
    What the hell is this organization, Fox? How can they be almost everywhere and yet almost nowhere?

    They had a perfectly good nefarious organization going already
    I found this turn of phrase amusing and it made me laugh.
  • mattjoes wrote: »
    They had a perfectly good nefarious organization going already
    I found this turn of phrase amusing and it made me laugh.

    Well, they did! :))

    Perfectly good nefarious organizations don't just grow on trees.
  • Posts: 1,566
    mattjoes wrote: »
    They had a perfectly good nefarious organization going already
    I found this turn of phrase amusing and it made me laugh.

    Well, they did! :))

    Perfectly good nefarious organizations don't just grow on trees.

    Indeed, they don't ! (Members have been known to hide, or lurk behind trees) Furthermore, the Quantum stylistic Q was reminiscent a bit of the SPECTRE octopus (can you just see their recruitment ads for minions ? "At SPECTRE, we've got our tentacles into everything ! So there's sure to be a job with us that is right for your skills, experience and goals !")
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