Mission: Impossible - films and tv series

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  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,992
    Just got back from seeing Dead Reckoning..
    So the plan was to meet the buyer, sell them the key in Ethan's possession, and tail them to wherever and whatever The Entity is? Does that not seem overly risky to anyone else?

    The action was top notch as usual, but I felt the film flagging a little at times. I pray that Part 2 will have a leaner runtime.


    After 1 viewing...

    1. Mission Impossible: Fallout
    2. Mission Impossible
    3. Mission Impossible 3
    4. Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol
    5. Mission Impossible: Dead Reckoning (1)
    6. Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation
    7. Mission Impossible 2
  • Posts: 348
    Zekidk wrote: »
    M_Blaise wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Its always one of the big challenges, to come up with interesting villains.
    It shouldn't be. A great actor who has some great lines should suffice. MI3 proved that.
    The dialogue was awful in that film.
    Ehhmmm. No!

    It's a feast of clever oneliners and phrases like "please don't interrupt me when I'm asking rhetorical questions", "I will bleed on the American flag to make sure those stripes stay red", " You hung me out of a plane. You can tell a lot about a person's character by how they treat people they don't have to treat well."

    There might be some good one liners but the chummy dialogue between Hunt and Luther is awful. And a lot of it makes no sense. Hunt was so impressed with his student because she reminded him of life before missions so he recommended her to go on missions immediately?

    And Hoffman's "kill her in front of you/you in front of her" thing sounds like an amateur trying to write threatening dialogue. Why is one threat worse than the other?
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,661
    Just got back from seeing Dead Reckoning..
    So the plan was to meet the buyer, sell them the key in Ethan's possession, and tail them to wherever and whatever The Entity is? Does that not seem overly risky to anyone else?

    The action was top notch as usual, but I felt the film flagging a little at times. I pray that Part 2 will have a leaner runtime.

    I felt the same. Isn't it just the same basic plot as MI:GP,
    just like putting the real nuke codes in the case with the assassin in the Burj, in this one they put the real thing in the hands of the villain to find out more information?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,999
    Just got back from seeing Dead Reckoning..
    So the plan was to meet the buyer, sell them the key in Ethan's possession, and tail them to wherever and whatever The Entity is? Does that not seem overly risky to anyone else?

    The action was top notch as usual, but I felt the film flagging a little at times. I pray that Part 2 will have a leaner runtime.


    After 1 viewing...

    1. Mission Impossible: Fallout
    2. Mission Impossible
    3. Mission Impossible 3
    4. Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol
    5. Mission Impossible: Dead Reckoning (1)
    6. Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation
    7. Mission Impossible 2

    I feel like:
    That's been a running theme for the series - let the enemy get as close to completing the mission as possible so Ethan and the team can tail them and then act, whether purposefully doing so or because there are no other options. You're right though, it's risky as hell.

    I still love how Hunt could've ended up killing Gabriel had Paris spoken to him just a few minutes prior to their fight atop the train. If only!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2023 Posts: 16,548
    peter wrote: »
    Hey all:

    A friend led me to the latest “Scriptshadow” article re: Mission: Impossible, and action set pieces in general.

    I admittedly have lost the plot with M:I films. The last three all blended together, and I genuinely forget which is which.

    I also have my own personal prejudice against Cruise that started during the first Top Gun, when I was a kid. Everyone loved the film, and I loathed it. And I didn’t like the leading man. This was, and still is, my cross to bear, 😂.

    However, this article may’ve struck-on why I forget these films so easily, but, because I’m obviously not the intended audience (I won’t be seeing this film, or any Cruise film in the future), and my perspective is tainted with bias, I throw this article to all the M:I fans (those who have seen the new one, but also those who’ve yet to see it). I’m very curious to see what your take is. Thanks for taking the time to read and share your thoughts (where the writer is wrong, where he’s right, what he’s missing…):

    http://scriptshadow.net/

    I've enjoyed reading his stuff before, but I think he misses the point there a bit. The Tom-on-a-rope scene is obviously fantastic, but he's saying that only set pieces which the whole movie revolves around, with stakes, work? So that's all Bond PTSes out the window for starters!
    He also completely ignores the fantastic opera set piece from Rogue Nation. Which isn't as simple and elegant as the CIA heist, sure, but it's a masterclass in building suspense and tension, culminating in a wonderful and satisfyingly intelligent climax.
    I feel there's a touch of snobbishness there about action scenes too, so I'd have to disagree with him. Plus it's a bit worrying that he misremembers the scene he's praising to the extent he thinks a character was present who wasn't there at all! :)

    I can see why the films blended together for you, but then I imagine that's true for most people who have seen the recent Bond movies but aren't massive fans like us. Was Spectre the one with the tube train coming through the roof...? What's the one where he goes to Italy and drives an Aston Martin...? :D
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,229
    Yeah, I'd wager that it's probably fair to say that a lot of people throw the same argument at the Bond films.

    Bond fans, by their nature, know exactly which film is which. Even casual fans may not. Thankfully, as a fan of both, I can distinctly remember the films from each as clear as day. It's a great way to be! :)
  • Cinema going is so expensive now so will probably give this a miss. Indy 5 was good enough for me.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited July 2023 Posts: 9,509
    Great thoughts @mtm …. I’ll have to go back and read that article again, but all set pieces should move either the story forward, OR the main character (action is character, character is action), so I disagree with his thoughts there…

    And good catch on his mistaking a character that’s not in the scene (that he’s using as an example!!!), but the over all idea that this set piece does indeed stick in most people’s memories (generally, 😂), is fascinating and there’s a reason for it.

    I do remember bits and pieces from the opera scene (couldn’t tell you from which film, though, which does really grate), but not with the clarity of that simple heist in the first film!

    And I hear you and I agree with you about why casual viewers of any series will have this blending-of-films effect. What bothers me is, I usually absorb films and I, usually, have the uncanny ability to recall them (even films I dislike— including M:I 2); my amnesia has specifically been with these last three films, and I truly have no idea why. I thought this article was perhaps touching on some reasons…
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited July 2023 Posts: 40,999
    Cinema going is so expensive now so will probably give this a miss. Indy 5 was good enough for me.

    It's worth the trip for the stunts and spectacle alone. I can't think of anything I saw in Indy 5 that warranted going to the cinema like, say, the finale in this one does. It is getting ridiculously pricy though and easier to avoid theaters when I know most of it is going to be online or streaming in a month or two anyway.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,488
    I'm back from the cinema and I left my seat very satisfied.
    The action is very good. The car chase is the perfect entertainment and the last action scene shines because they managed to do something I've never seen before.
    Ilsa didn't have enough good scenes the shine. It feels like we had to get rid off her so that Grace could get enough screen time. The good thing is that Grace is very likeable, too.
    Some mentioned that Benji is a bit annoying because he messes up too much. Where did he fail here? I didn't feel this way at all and liked him as much as always.

    Why isn't Ethan allowed to kiss any woman in this film? Okay, Grace is maybe too young. But Ilsa was totally ready for him in Venice, wasn't she? 🙃This is the big plus for Bond: He knows how to seduce women.

    Why did we need this backstory where Gabriel killed a woman Hunt cared about? It isn't explained at all.
    I have to admit it: the action in the M:I films is (overall) definitely more outstanding than in the Craig Bond films. Dead Reckoning is a fantastic action movie! However, I don't care for the character Ethan Hunt. If he would die in the next one, I wouldn't care. Cruise is an action hero but Hunt isn't interesting.


  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,999
    @goldenswissroyale,
    That retcon is clearly included to give Ethan a personal stake in wanting to hunt down Gabriel...but we get that anyway when he kills Isla. I don't know why they didn't just spare us the backstory and have him kill Ilsa earlier on. That bit is the only thing I didn't really like.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,488
    @Creasy47 Interesting that you felt the same. Maybe it makes more sense after part 2...
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Just saw the film, not sure how I feel about it immediately. The action was as breathtaking as you'd think, but some of the plot was a bit tough to take in.
    I am sick to death of hearing the words "The Entity"
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited July 2023 Posts: 4,343
    I always perceived the latest M:I films as pretty well made exercises made in order to display Cruise’s third youth. They were. Nice action but besides the big set pieces nothing to remember.
    DR1 is different tho.
    It’s a M:I film where the action is perfectly tied and justified by the thematic foundations of the movie.
    Themes within a M:I flick? What? Yup.
    From this standpoint it is the perfect follow up to the last three Bond: a crepuscular, melancholic tale about a wounded world that is running like a train towards uncertain territories where no one knows anymore what is real and what is worth. A metaphor for Hollywood itself and a reminder of the value of tradition.
    It’s a little bit flawed, I still can’t stand what they did to Ilsa’s character, but overall a pretty solid entry and the only one that actually left me with something to think about.

    Mod Edit - Edited to contain potential spoiler.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I'll think about it more tomorrow and leave some more in depth thoughts but
    I hate the "Ethan was a criminal"
    backstory/retcon development and I do feel massively disappointed after two and half films of build up for Ethan and Ilsa being together, they drop the ball like this, plus they replace her too quickly. Her absence needed to be felt much more

    Please don't read click on the spoilers if you haven't seen the film, the twists and turns are so exciting when you know nothing about the film
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,158
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I'll think about it more tomorrow and leave some more in depth thoughts but
    I hate the "Ethan was a criminal"
    backstory/retcon development and I do feel massively disappointed after two and half films of build up for Ethan and Ilsa being together, they drop the ball like this, plus they replace her too quickly. Her absence needed to be felt much more

    Please don't read click on the spoilers if you haven't seen the film, the twists and turns are so exciting when you know nothing about the film

    I certainly agree with you on that @Jordo007
    It didn't feel right to make Ethan a former criminal. Also, the lack of empathy for Ilsa was severely lacking. Which is why I'm concerned about her not being dead and returning in part 2. I think it would be a cheap way to fool the audience, by faking her death, twice!
    We'll see. But Ethan in particular didn't show enough emotion for someone he's been through that much with. He showed more emotion when Lindsey Farris died in MI:3.
  • Posts: 3,278
    M_Blaise wrote: »
    Hoffman's "kill her in front of you/you in front of her" thing sounds like an amateur
    I will just leave it at that! What a statement!
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Benny wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I'll think about it more tomorrow and leave some more in depth thoughts but
    I hate the "Ethan was a criminal"
    backstory/retcon development and I do feel massively disappointed after two and half films of build up for Ethan and Ilsa being together, they drop the ball like this, plus they replace her too quickly. Her absence needed to be felt much more

    Please don't read click on the spoilers if you haven't seen the film, the twists and turns are so exciting when you know nothing about the film

    I certainly agree with you on that @Jordo007
    It didn't feel right to make Ethan a former criminal. Also, the lack of empathy for Ilsa was severely lacking. Which is why I'm concerned about her not being dead and returning in part 2. I think it would be a cheap way to fool the audience, by faking her death, twice!
    We'll see. But Ethan in particular didn't show enough emotion for someone he's been through that much with. He showed more emotion when Lindsey Farris died in MI:3.
    God I really hope Isla isn't fake dead again. It's one thing to trick the audience for an hour of a film, but not for a whole year. I could only remember Ilsa having a few lines of dialogue in the whole film, she was definitely a neglected character

    I'd give the film an 8 out of 10 right now after first viewing.

    The action is phenomenal, there's great tension in this one too. I do think there were a few head scratching plot points, that'll probably make sense upon multiple viewings and at times the lighter tone does hamstring certain moments

    Unfortunately for me this does feel like part 1 of 2 rather than it's own complete film, but that's to be expected. In some scenes it felt purposely vague to reveal more in the next film
  • Regarding a much derided plot point in here, am I the only one that thought it was implied:
    Ethan was never a criminal. His only crime was the murder Gabriel framed him for. All other talk about his life before just meant he was still in a jam and had to live with the ramifications of this.
    I dislike a recton as much as the next chap, but am I missing something?
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Regarding a much derided plot point in here, am I the only one that thought it was implied:
    Ethan was never a criminal. His only crime was the murder Gabriel framed him for. All other talk about his life before just meant he was still in a jam and had to live with the ramifications of this.
    I dislike a recton as much as the next chap, but am I missing something?

    Correct. Nothing missing.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    Hayley Atwell is wonderful


    Absolutely gorgeous. Wish she was in a Bond film.
  • Posts: 669
    I enjoyed the film quite a bit, but I'm having trouble loving it. After thinking back on it, I think I may have figured out why.
    The way Ilsa's death was handled left me very cold. I can understand the reasons why they chose to kill her, and I'm not opposed to the fact of her dying. But I hated the fact that Ethan gets very angry about it for approximately one minute and then she's essentially she's never mentioned again. It feels like Grace just replaces her, both in the movie and in Ethan's mind. That may be an exaggeration but it really played out like, "ILSA! NOOO! Okay, gotta catch a train, byeeeee!" I don't believe she's ever mentioned again for the rest of the movie. That seems odd to me and, like I said, it's holding me back from loving the film.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,999
    I enjoyed the film quite a bit, but I'm having trouble loving it. After thinking back on it, I think I may have figured out why.
    The way Ilsa's death was handled left me very cold. I can understand the reasons why they chose to kill her, and I'm not opposed to the fact of her dying. But I hated the fact that Ethan gets very angry about it for approximately one minute and then she's essentially she's never mentioned again. It feels like Grace just replaces her, both in the movie and in Ethan's mind. That may be an exaggeration but it really played out like, "ILSA! NOOO! Okay, gotta catch a train, byeeeee!" I don't believe she's ever mentioned again for the rest of the movie. That seems odd to me and, like I said, it's holding me back from loving the film.
    He does think on her before taking the jump off the cliff. It's either poorly handled or she's still alive and that's why they aren't putting much of a focus on it. Maybe she survived her fight and Ethan realizes he'll need her for a Plan Z if everything else goes south in the future, so it's best if she remains fully off the grid for the time being. I'm not sure I'd like how that's handled either though.
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 28
    I think
    she's coming back. I remember they didn't put in the "last breath" death sound effect when Ethan discovered her lying there- it would feel like too much of an obvious error by the filmmakers to just forget about Ilsa when the characters been built up over two and a half movies.

    Also how many times has "the world's changing" been used in dialogue in major blockbusters over the past five years? [Spolier]
  • edited July 2023 Posts: 4,617
    my perception was that Ilsa was a widely liked character with great previous scenes/dialoge, verywell executed by a very talented actress. With this in mind, her death should have been handled far far better and, as others have noted, it was rather "thrown away", a huge shame IMHO and it casts a shadow over the movie
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Anyone else think?
    There was less big action in this one compared to the last two films? It was still fantastic but there was less spectacular set pieces. I might just be forgetting.
    The alleyway fight was fantastic though, my girlfriend clawed my arm watching it 😅 it was so tense, it reminded me of QOS a bit
    Hayley Atwell is wonderful

    Absolutely gorgeous. Wish she was in a Bond film.
    In my opinion, she's the third great MI actress EON have missed out, she would have been perfect in the Craig era. Just like Ferguson and Kirby.
  • Posts: 1,496
    Saw it in IMAX, which is a must for this insanely spectacular and brilliantly staged and photographed film. I was on the edge of my seat, I laughed, I gasped at the incredible stunts - how he does this insane stunts is beyond me, and I found the emotional moments very touching. The cast are all great. I loved every second of it. Can't wait for Part 2.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    If you can, you have to see this film in Imax. It's glorious. Also for those who've asked, I really enjoyed the score. It fit the tense action scenes and the lighter moments perfectly
  • Posts: 678
    I'm gonna be honest I was never particularly a fan of Ilsa and Ethan having some romantic relationship.

    I think it would've always been much better if they kept it platonic if Ethan was going to find himself constantly at odds with her agenda.

    But also the ally-or-foe dilemma was at some point gonna get old with Ilsa, so they really had to make up their minds if she was gonna be 100% in or not.

    I'm also not a big fan of that retcon backstory for Ethan, it reeks of the Fast and Furious movies where they introduce a new lost family member for Vin Diesel every couple of movies.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    The running shot of Ethan in this film is one of the most exhilarating scenes I've ever seen, paired with the cinematography, the score and the stakes, it was one of the most edge of your seat moments in the film.

    Say what you want about Tom Cruise but he knows how to do action
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