Mission: Impossible - films and tv series

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  • What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.
  • Posts: 1,680
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.

    This.
  • Posts: 1,680
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.


    The only film with Craig that has an actual plot is CR
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,980
    One time I did a little experiment, while watching Rogue Nation , in my mind I replaced the MI cast with that of Bond. Obviously Cruise became Craig, the characters of Benji became Q, Luther became Felix and so on.
    Obviously with some adjustments, man that would have been a great Bond film.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.
    Everything you’re saying applies to the last M:I as well.
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    mtm wrote: »
    Tom Cruise is currently training for the next Mission Impossible in France. He has been sighted doing speed flying (an advanced discipline of paragliding that uses a small, high-performance paraglider wing to quickly descend heights such as mountains), doing an average 15 jumps per day for the past week.

    I’ve just looked that up: my goodness it looks dangerous! :D

    I always wanted that in a Bond-film (with our without stunt doubles)! It's such a wonderful stunt, especially with GoPro cameras attached to it! But now "Mission: Impossible" is again the first action film with that 😔. Anyway, good luck Tom Cruise.
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    boldfinger wrote: »
    The bike chase sequence in Paris in Fallout loses a lot of impact by the way it´s filmed and edited.

    Well, give me that car chase (with a ragdoll of an old BMW 5-series) and it's subsequent bike chase over that underdeveloped 'dance' of cars in Rome in "SPECTRE". Moreover, your criticism about that "Fallout" chase sequence to me sounds like a load of bull. It was edited in such a way, that it felt dangerous, it felt real, and the choice of camera angles, low to the road, and seeing Cruise using his gear stick, added to the suspense. Best car sequence since "Ronin".

  • edited September 2019 Posts: 5,767
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.


    The only film with Craig that has an actual plot is CR
    I´d say QoS worked very well as an interlude. Shame they didn´t continue from there on.


    mtm wrote: »
    Tom Cruise is currently training for the next Mission Impossible in France. He has been sighted doing speed flying (an advanced discipline of paragliding that uses a small, high-performance paraglider wing to quickly descend heights such as mountains), doing an average 15 jumps per day for the past week.

    I’ve just looked that up: my goodness it looks dangerous! :D

    I always wanted that in a Bond-film (with our without stunt doubles)! It's such a wonderful stunt, especially with GoPro cameras attached to it! But now "Mission: Impossible" is again the first action film with that 😔. Anyway, good luck Tom Cruise.
    It fits much better to Tom´s M:I, because Bond is no such adrenalin junkie.



    boldfinger wrote: »
    The bike chase sequence in Paris in Fallout loses a lot of impact by the way it´s filmed and edited.

    Well, give me that car chase (with a ragdoll of an old BMW 5-series) and it's subsequent bike chase over that underdeveloped 'dance' of cars in Rome in "SPECTRE". Moreover, your criticism about that "Fallout" chase sequence to me sounds like a load of bull. It was edited in such a way, that it felt dangerous, it felt real, and the choice of camera angles, low to the road, and seeing Cruise using his gear stick, added to the suspense. Best car sequence since "Ronin".
    What can I say? To me that sequence always looks like it´s trying to do something like Ronin, but it´s not even in the same ball park. The camera´s pov is much too much inside the action, and changes too often, to really get anywhere near that visceral feeling Ronin had. That FO chase always makes me think of the camera men, and that´s not a good thing.
    Who cares for SP, when both M:I (RN) and Bond (QoS, I know not everybody digs the editing, but that´s one hell of a car chase) had recent car chases that were considerably more to the point. And if we´re talking about the best car chase since Ronin, it would be sacrilege to omit Bourne and Mad Max ;-).
  • Posts: 1,680
    It’s obvious eon are stepping it up, the matera chase looks similar to the action in Fallout
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.


    The only film with Craig that has an actual plot is CR
    I´d say QoS worked very well as an interlude. Shame they didn´t continue from there on.


    mtm wrote: »
    Tom Cruise is currently training for the next Mission Impossible in France. He has been sighted doing speed flying (an advanced discipline of paragliding that uses a small, high-performance paraglider wing to quickly descend heights such as mountains), doing an average 15 jumps per day for the past week.

    I’ve just looked that up: my goodness it looks dangerous! :D

    I always wanted that in a Bond-film (with our without stunt doubles)! It's such a wonderful stunt, especially with GoPro cameras attached to it! But now "Mission: Impossible" is again the first action film with that 😔. Anyway, good luck Tom Cruise.
    It fits much better to Tom´s M:I, because Bond is no such adrenalin junkie.

    Bond was an adrenaline junkie first. During this intense ski chase in OHMSS. During the cliff jump in TSWLM. During an entire underwater chase in TSWLM. During the first ever parachute ski dive jump ever caught on the big screen in MR. Bond = an adrenaline junkie. Period. Especially the Cinematic incarnation of Bond. PS: I also said, "with or without stunt doubles".
  • edited September 2019 Posts: 5,767
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.


    The only film with Craig that has an actual plot is CR
    I´d say QoS worked very well as an interlude. Shame they didn´t continue from there on.


    mtm wrote: »
    Tom Cruise is currently training for the next Mission Impossible in France. He has been sighted doing speed flying (an advanced discipline of paragliding that uses a small, high-performance paraglider wing to quickly descend heights such as mountains), doing an average 15 jumps per day for the past week.

    I’ve just looked that up: my goodness it looks dangerous! :D

    I always wanted that in a Bond-film (with our without stunt doubles)! It's such a wonderful stunt, especially with GoPro cameras attached to it! But now "Mission: Impossible" is again the first action film with that 😔. Anyway, good luck Tom Cruise.
    It fits much better to Tom´s M:I, because Bond is no such adrenalin junkie.

    Bond was an adrenaline junkie first. During this intense ski chase in OHMSS. During the cliff jump in TSWLM. During an entire underwater chase in TSWLM. During the first ever parachute ski dive jump ever caught on the big screen in MR. Bond = an adrenaline junkie. Period. Especially the Cinematic incarnation of Bond. PS: I also said, "with or without stunt doubles".
    Look, I didn´t mean the term in a deprecating manner. But when Bond did a dangerous stunt, he always did so out of necessity. Even Craigbond running up that crane in CR has nothing in common with the death-defying stuff Ethan Hunt pulls off all the time. Ethan Hunt was a hot shot right from the start, and the opening of M:I 2 shows him doing adrenalin-junkie free-climbing stuff in his off-time that would look totally weird on Bond. Hunt does free-climbing in deadly hights. Bond goes to the casino, where he gets his thrills, but even though he may face grave financial dangers, those are not as immediately life-threatening as the stuff Hunt does.
    It´s not about who did what first, but about the two of them being different characters with different outlooks on life.
  • Posts: 12,506
    Fair play to Cruise for getting Atwell. Look forward to the next instalment! :-bd
  • edited September 2019 Posts: 12,837
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.


    The only film with Craig that has an actual plot is CR

    I get preferring the tone and action of MI but plot seems a weird thing to single out. Cruise has admitted that they basically come up with action scenes and fill in the blanks and imo it shows. The plots are all fairly generic standard spy film stuff, an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. The Craig era hasn't had any mind blowing plots either but that's because they're going for a more character driven approach, which is something MI really doesn't have. Ethan Hunt does not feel like a real person. He's the blandest most generic possible action hero. In fact all the characters in MI are fairly bland stock character stereotypes.

    And Bond just is in a different league imo. Even the worst Bond films have a magic around them because of the rich legacy of the brand and the unique cocktail of ingredients that make up a Bond film that's impossible to recreate. When Cruise gets too old, MI will die. Because it's basically a less sexy, less edgy Bond knock off that serves as an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. They're very well made films don't get me wrong, but the only unique thing about it is the team dynamic and they ruined any chance of that making a difference by casting Tom Cruise. Bond meanwhile will outlive all of us because it's something truly special.
  • Tuck91 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.


    The only film with Craig that has an actual plot is CR

    I get preferring the tone and action of MI but plot seems a weird thing to single out. Cruise has admitted that they basically come up with action scenes and fill in the blanks and imo it shows. The plots are all fairly generic standard spy film stuff, an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. The Craig era hasn't had any mind blowing plots either but that's because they're going for a more character driven approach, which is something MI really doesn't have. Ethan Hunt does not feel like a real person. He's the blandest most generic possible action hero. In fact all the characters in MI are fairly bland stock character stereotypes.

    And Bond just is in a different league imo. Even the worst Bond films have a magic around them because of the rich legacy of the brand and the unique cocktail of ingredients that make up a Bond film that's impossible to recreate. When Cruise gets too old, MI will die. Because it's basically a less sexy, less edgy Bond knock off that serves as an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. They're very well made films don't get me wrong, but the only unique thing about it is the team dynamic and they ruined any chance of that making a difference by casting Tom Cruise. Bond meanwhile will outlive all of us because it's something truly special.
    I thought the plot of Fallout was terrible. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but I question some of the decisions in regards to twists. At least in QOS I can connect the dots on repeated viewings. Ethan Hunt has never been an engaging character, and only gets by because of Tom Cruise. There will not be another Ethan Hunt, but there will always be another Bond. I may be sounding a bit harsh, as I do really like Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation, but I find the smaller character stuff more intriguing than the action stuff, which is where I think Fallout falls down in. I do need to rewatch that movie though.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,034
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.


    The only film with Craig that has an actual plot is CR

    I get preferring the tone and action of MI but plot seems a weird thing to single out. Cruise has admitted that they basically come up with action scenes and fill in the blanks and imo it shows. The plots are all fairly generic standard spy film stuff, an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. The Craig era hasn't had any mind blowing plots either but that's because they're going for a more character driven approach, which is something MI really doesn't have. Ethan Hunt does not feel like a real person. He's the blandest most generic possible action hero. In fact all the characters in MI are fairly bland stock character stereotypes.

    And Bond just is in a different league imo. Even the worst Bond films have a magic around them because of the rich legacy of the brand and the unique cocktail of ingredients that make up a Bond film that's impossible to recreate. When Cruise gets too old, MI will die. Because it's basically a less sexy, less edgy Bond knock off that serves as an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. They're very well made films don't get me wrong, but the only unique thing about it is the team dynamic and they ruined any chance of that making a difference by casting Tom Cruise. Bond meanwhile will outlive all of us because it's something truly special.
    I thought the plot of Fallout was terrible. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but I question some of the decisions in regards to twists. At least in QOS I can connect the dots on repeated viewings. Ethan Hunt has never been an engaging character, and only gets by because of Tom Cruise. There will not be another Ethan Hunt, but there will always be another Bond. I may be sounding a bit harsh, as I do really like Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation, but I find the smaller character stuff more intriguing than the action stuff, which is where I think Fallout falls down in. I do need to rewatch that movie though.

    Fallout didn't really have any twists. It was just balls to the wall - and that's why it succeeded, imo. It was fairly unapologetic about it.
  • Posts: 1,680
    And what was skyfall and spectres plot again? Kill M and reunite with my brother Blofeld.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited September 2019 Posts: 1,165
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.


    The only film with Craig that has an actual plot is CR

    I get preferring the tone and action of MI but plot seems a weird thing to single out. Cruise has admitted that they basically come up with action scenes and fill in the blanks and imo it shows. The plots are all fairly generic standard spy film stuff, an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. The Craig era hasn't had any mind blowing plots either but that's because they're going for a more character driven approach, which is something MI really doesn't have. Ethan Hunt does not feel like a real person. He's the blandest most generic possible action hero. In fact all the characters in MI are fairly bland stock character stereotypes.

    And Bond just is in a different league imo. Even the worst Bond films have a magic around them because of the rich legacy of the brand and the unique cocktail of ingredients that make up a Bond film that's impossible to recreate. When Cruise gets too old, MI will die. Because it's basically a less sexy, less edgy Bond knock off that serves as an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. They're very well made films don't get me wrong, but the only unique thing about it is the team dynamic and they ruined any chance of that making a difference by casting Tom Cruise. Bond meanwhile will outlive all of us because it's something truly special.
    I thought the plot of Fallout was terrible. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but I question some of the decisions in regards to twists. At least in QOS I can connect the dots on repeated viewings. Ethan Hunt has never been an engaging character, and only gets by because of Tom Cruise. There will not be another Ethan Hunt, but there will always be another Bond. I may be sounding a bit harsh, as I do really like Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation, but I find the smaller character stuff more intriguing than the action stuff, which is where I think Fallout falls down in. I do need to rewatch that movie though.

    Fallout didn't really have any twists. It was just balls to the wall - and that's why it succeeded, imo. It was fairly unapologetic about it.
    With Fallout, they were overconfident in how deep the lore of the series was, and the story completely suffered for it. Hell, it basically did everything people poopoo Spectre’s plot about in tying events to previous films, only at least I cared (and remembered) about the events from the DC Bond films.
  • Posts: 1,680
    This is coming from a Spectre fan, But Fallout was better than SP.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    This is coming from a Spectre fan, But Fallout was better than SP.
    I’m the opposite: I’ve rewatched Spectre several times happily, and I’ve never once felt the urge to revisit Fallout.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited September 2019 Posts: 8,034
    Minion wrote: »
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.


    The only film with Craig that has an actual plot is CR

    I get preferring the tone and action of MI but plot seems a weird thing to single out. Cruise has admitted that they basically come up with action scenes and fill in the blanks and imo it shows. The plots are all fairly generic standard spy film stuff, an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. The Craig era hasn't had any mind blowing plots either but that's because they're going for a more character driven approach, which is something MI really doesn't have. Ethan Hunt does not feel like a real person. He's the blandest most generic possible action hero. In fact all the characters in MI are fairly bland stock character stereotypes.

    And Bond just is in a different league imo. Even the worst Bond films have a magic around them because of the rich legacy of the brand and the unique cocktail of ingredients that make up a Bond film that's impossible to recreate. When Cruise gets too old, MI will die. Because it's basically a less sexy, less edgy Bond knock off that serves as an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. They're very well made films don't get me wrong, but the only unique thing about it is the team dynamic and they ruined any chance of that making a difference by casting Tom Cruise. Bond meanwhile will outlive all of us because it's something truly special.
    I thought the plot of Fallout was terrible. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but I question some of the decisions in regards to twists. At least in QOS I can connect the dots on repeated viewings. Ethan Hunt has never been an engaging character, and only gets by because of Tom Cruise. There will not be another Ethan Hunt, but there will always be another Bond. I may be sounding a bit harsh, as I do really like Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation, but I find the smaller character stuff more intriguing than the action stuff, which is where I think Fallout falls down in. I do need to rewatch that movie though.

    Fallout didn't really have any twists. It was just balls to the wall - and that's why it succeeded, imo. It was fairly unapologetic about it.
    With Fallout, they were overconfident in how deep the lore of the series was, and the story completely suffered for it. Hell, it basically did everything people poopoo Spectre’s plot about in tying events to previous films, only at least I cared (and remembered) about the events from the DC Bond films.

    Nah, I'd have to disagree there. I think the key difference is that with Fallout it felt a bit more natural, with (maybe) the exception of Julia's inclusion. That is a lot to do with the film's breakneck pace, but it still felt a lot more thought out than Spectre did as well as just being more enjoyable all round.

    It's possible that it's because I expected more from Spectre in comparison.
  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    Posts: 431
    Minion wrote: »
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.


    The only film with Craig that has an actual plot is CR

    I get preferring the tone and action of MI but plot seems a weird thing to single out. Cruise has admitted that they basically come up with action scenes and fill in the blanks and imo it shows. The plots are all fairly generic standard spy film stuff, an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. The Craig era hasn't had any mind blowing plots either but that's because they're going for a more character driven approach, which is something MI really doesn't have. Ethan Hunt does not feel like a real person. He's the blandest most generic possible action hero. In fact all the characters in MI are fairly bland stock character stereotypes.

    And Bond just is in a different league imo. Even the worst Bond films have a magic around them because of the rich legacy of the brand and the unique cocktail of ingredients that make up a Bond film that's impossible to recreate. When Cruise gets too old, MI will die. Because it's basically a less sexy, less edgy Bond knock off that serves as an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. They're very well made films don't get me wrong, but the only unique thing about it is the team dynamic and they ruined any chance of that making a difference by casting Tom Cruise. Bond meanwhile will outlive all of us because it's something truly special.
    I thought the plot of Fallout was terrible. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but I question some of the decisions in regards to twists. At least in QOS I can connect the dots on repeated viewings. Ethan Hunt has never been an engaging character, and only gets by because of Tom Cruise. There will not be another Ethan Hunt, but there will always be another Bond. I may be sounding a bit harsh, as I do really like Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation, but I find the smaller character stuff more intriguing than the action stuff, which is where I think Fallout falls down in. I do need to rewatch that movie though.

    Fallout didn't really have any twists. It was just balls to the wall - and that's why it succeeded, imo. It was fairly unapologetic about it.
    With Fallout, they were overconfident in how deep the lore of the series was, and the story completely suffered for it. Hell, it basically did everything people poopoo Spectre’s plot about in tying events to previous films, only at least I cared (and remembered) about the events from the DC Bond films.

    Nah, I'd have to disagree there. I think the key difference is that with Fallout it felt a bit more natural, with (maybe) the exception of Julia's inclusion. That is a lot to do with the film's breakneck pace, but it still felt a lot more thought out than Spectre did as well as just being more enjoyable all round.

    It's possible that it's because I expected more from Spectre in comparison.

    Great remark Mr Ireland 🇮🇪 😉. Fully agree.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest. And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.
    Spot on, assessment. I'm worried with McQuarrie returning for the next two films, we'll once again keep retreading RN territory with diminishing returns.
  • Posts: 4,025
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.


    The only film with Craig that has an actual plot is CR

    I get preferring the tone and action of MI but plot seems a weird thing to single out. Cruise has admitted that they basically come up with action scenes and fill in the blanks and imo it shows. The plots are all fairly generic standard spy film stuff, an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. The Craig era hasn't had any mind blowing plots either but that's because they're going for a more character driven approach, which is something MI really doesn't have. Ethan Hunt does not feel like a real person. He's the blandest most generic possible action hero. In fact all the characters in MI are fairly bland stock character stereotypes.

    And Bond just is in a different league imo. Even the worst Bond films have a magic around them because of the rich legacy of the brand and the unique cocktail of ingredients that make up a Bond film that's impossible to recreate. When Cruise gets too old, MI will die. Because it's basically a less sexy, less edgy Bond knock off that serves as an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. They're very well made films don't get me wrong, but the only unique thing about it is the team dynamic and they ruined any chance of that making a difference by casting Tom Cruise. Bond meanwhile will outlive all of us because it's something truly special.
    I thought the plot of Fallout was terrible. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but I question some of the decisions in regards to twists. At least in QOS I can connect the dots on repeated viewings. Ethan Hunt has never been an engaging character, and only gets by because of Tom Cruise. There will not be another Ethan Hunt, but there will always be another Bond. I may be sounding a bit harsh, as I do really like Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation, but I find the smaller character stuff more intriguing than the action stuff, which is where I think Fallout falls down in. I do need to rewatch that movie though.

    Fallout didn't really have any twists. It was just balls to the wall - and that's why it succeeded, imo. It was fairly unapologetic about it.

    It was odd just how often Ethan Hunt said he was sorry in Fallout.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited September 2019 Posts: 8,034
    vzok wrote: »
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.


    The only film with Craig that has an actual plot is CR

    I get preferring the tone and action of MI but plot seems a weird thing to single out. Cruise has admitted that they basically come up with action scenes and fill in the blanks and imo it shows. The plots are all fairly generic standard spy film stuff, an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. The Craig era hasn't had any mind blowing plots either but that's because they're going for a more character driven approach, which is something MI really doesn't have. Ethan Hunt does not feel like a real person. He's the blandest most generic possible action hero. In fact all the characters in MI are fairly bland stock character stereotypes.

    And Bond just is in a different league imo. Even the worst Bond films have a magic around them because of the rich legacy of the brand and the unique cocktail of ingredients that make up a Bond film that's impossible to recreate. When Cruise gets too old, MI will die. Because it's basically a less sexy, less edgy Bond knock off that serves as an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. They're very well made films don't get me wrong, but the only unique thing about it is the team dynamic and they ruined any chance of that making a difference by casting Tom Cruise. Bond meanwhile will outlive all of us because it's something truly special.
    I thought the plot of Fallout was terrible. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but I question some of the decisions in regards to twists. At least in QOS I can connect the dots on repeated viewings. Ethan Hunt has never been an engaging character, and only gets by because of Tom Cruise. There will not be another Ethan Hunt, but there will always be another Bond. I may be sounding a bit harsh, as I do really like Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation, but I find the smaller character stuff more intriguing than the action stuff, which is where I think Fallout falls down in. I do need to rewatch that movie though.

    Fallout didn't really have any twists. It was just balls to the wall - and that's why it succeeded, imo. It was fairly unapologetic about it.

    It was odd just how often Ethan Hunt said he was sorry in Fallout.

    The motif of the choices he he makes having an adverse effect on other people has been there since M:I-3, so it didn't strike me as odd at all.
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest.

    She was a love interest in ROGUE NATION. It was always more than professional and courteous. The fact that the story didn't have them together at the end doesn't nullify that. She was always going to come back and they made the right call in doing so - and the fact that her motives were ambigous throughout the most recent film kept that relationship pretty consistent. And they're still no more a couple, officially onscreen, than they were at the end of RN.
    And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    This I do agree with, but thankfully Walker was there to keep it interesting for me. A solid villain.
    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.

    Though they certainly did not simply repeat themselves, so I'm fine with it. McQuarrie did pretty well to distinguish himself from the previous film. He's a versatile dude. Though I can certainly appreciate what the individual directors, except maybe Woo, have brought to their respective films. So I get it.
    Minion wrote: »
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    What’s amazing is that despite the fact that critics and the general public compare the two, some members insist that Bond is still “in another league”.

    Really? Craig’s Bond has spent more than a decade riffing on Bourne and throwing in cheap bits of nostalgia for the “I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE THING!” types.

    Mission gives a good time. Bond spends too much time up it’s own arse with preachy characters like Madeline criticizing Bond’s life.


    The only film with Craig that has an actual plot is CR

    I get preferring the tone and action of MI but plot seems a weird thing to single out. Cruise has admitted that they basically come up with action scenes and fill in the blanks and imo it shows. The plots are all fairly generic standard spy film stuff, an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. The Craig era hasn't had any mind blowing plots either but that's because they're going for a more character driven approach, which is something MI really doesn't have. Ethan Hunt does not feel like a real person. He's the blandest most generic possible action hero. In fact all the characters in MI are fairly bland stock character stereotypes.

    And Bond just is in a different league imo. Even the worst Bond films have a magic around them because of the rich legacy of the brand and the unique cocktail of ingredients that make up a Bond film that's impossible to recreate. When Cruise gets too old, MI will die. Because it's basically a less sexy, less edgy Bond knock off that serves as an excuse for Tom Cruise to jump off things. They're very well made films don't get me wrong, but the only unique thing about it is the team dynamic and they ruined any chance of that making a difference by casting Tom Cruise. Bond meanwhile will outlive all of us because it's something truly special.
    I thought the plot of Fallout was terrible. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but I question some of the decisions in regards to twists. At least in QOS I can connect the dots on repeated viewings. Ethan Hunt has never been an engaging character, and only gets by because of Tom Cruise. There will not be another Ethan Hunt, but there will always be another Bond. I may be sounding a bit harsh, as I do really like Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation, but I find the smaller character stuff more intriguing than the action stuff, which is where I think Fallout falls down in. I do need to rewatch that movie though.

    Fallout didn't really have any twists. It was just balls to the wall - and that's why it succeeded, imo. It was fairly unapologetic about it.
    With Fallout, they were overconfident in how deep the lore of the series was, and the story completely suffered for it. Hell, it basically did everything people poopoo Spectre’s plot about in tying events to previous films, only at least I cared (and remembered) about the events from the DC Bond films.

    Nah, I'd have to disagree there. I think the key difference is that with Fallout it felt a bit more natural, with (maybe) the exception of Julia's inclusion. That is a lot to do with the film's breakneck pace, but it still felt a lot more thought out than Spectre did as well as just being more enjoyable all round.

    It's possible that it's because I expected more from Spectre in comparison.

    Great remark Mr Ireland 🇮🇪 😉. Fully agree.

    Tah, Mr. Dutchman! 🇳🇱

    This may be a first!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Yeah, I’m not a fan of FALLOUT basically serving as a continuation when ROGUE NATION felt like an efficient stand alone entry. I didn’t want to see more of Elsa beyond RN as I felt her and Ethan having a professional courteous back and forth was more intriguing than turning her into yet another love interest.

    She was a love interest in ROGUE NATION. It was always more than professional and courteous. The fact that the story didn't have them together at the end doesn't nullify that. She was always going to come back and they made the right call in doing so - and the fact that her motives were ambigous throughout the most recent film kept that relationship pretty consistent. And they're still no more a couple, officially onscreen, than they were at the end of RN.

    In RN an attraction is hinted, sure, but I liked that ultimately no boundaries were crossed, and I never got the sense that she was set up to be a recurring character. Her story felt very self contained. It's only after the film came out that they decided to bring her back because they liked her that much, and pushing that attraction further for me lessened her as a character.
    And Solomon Lane is not an interesting enough villain to make into a recurring.

    This I do agree with, but thankfully Walker was there to keep it interesting for me. A solid villain.

    Was that Cavil's character? He didn't leave much of an impression. Admittedly, it's the only film in the series I didn't bother getting on blu-ray so I haven't even revisited it yet.
    And I’m especially not a fan of the series ditching the revolving door of new and interesting directors giving their own take on a M:I film. In a sense, this series really lost something.

    Though they certainly did not simply repeat themselves, so I'm fine with it. McQuarrie did pretty well to distinguish himself from the previous film. He's a versatile dude. Though I can certainly appreciate what the individual directors, except maybe Woo, have brought to their respective films. So I get it.

    Umm... no.

    John Woo > McQuarrie

    Though I'll give McQuarrie this: He's better than Abrams.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,034

    Umm... no.

    John Woo > McQuarrie

    Not a chance. I love Woo dearly but M:I-2 is an awful, awful film and he should never have been given the gig.

  • Posts: 4,025
    I meant that Hunt saying sorry, even if reflecting his conflict, was ladled on very thick.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,034
    vzok wrote: »
    I meant that Hunt saying sorry, even if reflecting his conflict, was ladled on very thick.

    A fair point, even if I didn't find it all that noticeable thanks to the pacing.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025

    Umm... no.

    John Woo > McQuarrie

    Not a chance. I love Woo dearly but M:I-2 is an awful, awful film and he should never have been given the gig.

    I wish more action flicks were as “awful” as M:I-2!


    Funnily, of all the flicks, it’s the only one of the series where Hunt is never a rogue or disavowed!
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