Double O by Kim Sherwood

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Comments

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,792
    I thought that was gone too!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited November 2021 Posts: 17,620
    mtm wrote: »
    I thought that was gone too!

    Reading up on it just now the BBC were going to scrap it too in January 2020 but after complaints they decided to suspend their decision, literally at the eleventh hour. I'm a Teletext/Ceefax fan so I'm glad they've still kept something over from that older pre-Internet analogue world that's faded away! :)
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2021 Posts: 2,857
    Er, Red button text service, yeah, that'll be it...😳
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,955
    Woke or not, I doubt we’ll ever have Bond express his opinion of Koreans being lower than apes.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited November 2021 Posts: 17,620
    Woke or not, I doubt we’ll ever have Bond express his opinion of Koreans being lower than apes.

    That's why that sort of time-set character (almost in amber) can't be easily transported to the 2020s without major changes to the character that, were they to be enacted, would make one wonder whether the project was worth the candle. Just like the largely Victorian creation Sherlock Holmes entering into the Jazz Age or World War II, perhaps that original literary James Bond can't be supplanted so far into our modern world without losing virtually everything that made him distinctive and of his time, warts and all. I see it as an admission of defeat on the part of IFP that they have since 2005 largely focused on period-set adventures, be they Young Bond or 1950s and 1960s set adult Bond novels.

    Jeffery Deaver's Carte Blanche (2011) was the one beacon of contemporary-set Bond in this sea of period-set adventures over the last 16 years. Presumably disappointing sales, like Colonel Sun before it, accounted for IFP stopping dead in their tracks with that approach and doubling down on producing period-set adventures instead. The commissioning of this new "Bondless" Double O series, albeit in a contemporary setting, seems to confirm the fact that IFP believe that Fleming's literary Bond is an uneasy fit for the modern world the film character seamlessly inhabits.
  • Posts: 9,669
    Fleming NEVER intended Bond to be a period character

    But also I loved Carte Blanche I was talking to a friend of mine in all seriousness the world is scary and dark I want to see a Bond deal with the issues
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,857
    There was a recent Bourne without Bourne tv series about the other Treadstone agents. I didn't see it and I don't know how successful it was, but I wonder if that inspired IFP to explore this route?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2021 Posts: 14,792
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Jeffery Deaver's Carte Blanche (2011) was the one beacon of contemporary-set Bond in this sea of period-set adventures over the last 16 years. Presumably disappointing sales, like Colonel Sun before it, accounted for IFP stopping dead in their tracks with that approach and doubling down on producing period-set adventures instead. The commissioning of this new "Bondless" Double O series, albeit in a contemporary setting, seems to confirm the fact that IFP believe that Fleming's literary Bond is an uneasy fit for the modern world the film character seamlessly inhabits.

    I tend to think that the period thing is just because the writers they hire (who are big names, don’t forget; and with that comes a certain amount of creative control) just wanted to do that.
    I don’t think this Sherwood series is any kind of reaction to the Bond character himself not being able to fit in the present day, because there’s a really popular film series which says otherwise. I think they’re probably just trying to grow the brand a bit, nothing more sinister.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,093
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Fleming NEVER intended Bond to be a period character

    But he's become that because Fleming made him so up to the minute contemporary, and I love it.

    I do think it's tricky to bring the literary Bond up to date, because there are so many parts of his life that have disappeared. People don't dine at their clubs any more, or have housekeepers, so it's harder to imagine his domestic setup between missions. Does Bond put out his recycling bins? I can't picture it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,792
    Heh! It’s a good point :D
  • Posts: 1,876
    I have to admit I've been intrigued by the other 00s over the years. From the mention of 008 replacing Bond in GF to the others who are seated next to Bond in TB and on an on. And also the mention of those who share an office with Bond mentioned in the Fleming novels. If I'm not mistaken, Bill Fairbanks 002 in TMWTGG is the only one we know by name and a hint of his non-professional life, NTTD's 007 aside.

    I guess this idea is interesting, but like I've said with doing Felix Leiter standalone stories or films/series, we watch or read these for James Bond. He's unique and we know and look forward to where his adventures take us and the supporting characters are just that. Rounding them out won't necessarily make them more interesting, a less is more case. We'll see, but I'm anticipating an Agents of Mi6 similar to Marvel's Agents of SHIELD.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,857
    They'll probably throw half a dozen 00s into the book, see which ones are the most popular and feature those in the remaining two books. Sounds like the first one's market research!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 3,959
    Venutius wrote: »
    They'll probably throw half a dozen 00s into the book, see which ones are the most popular and feature those in the remaining two books. Sounds like the first one's market research!

    I still wouldn’t rule out Alec Trevelyan in one way or another. Maybe he’s the mole in MI6.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,620
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    They'll probably throw half a dozen 00s into the book, see which ones are the most popular and feature those in the remaining two books. Sounds like the first one's market research!

    I still wouldn’t rule out Alec Trevelyan in one way or another. Maybe he’s the mole in MI6.

    A film character appearing in the literary Bond world? Sacrilege!
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,517
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    They'll probably throw half a dozen 00s into the book, see which ones are the most popular and feature those in the remaining two books. Sounds like the first one's market research!

    I still wouldn’t rule out Alec Trevelyan in one way or another. Maybe he’s the mole in MI6.

    A film character appearing in the literary Bond world? Sacrilege!

    Can we say that Fleming already did this by including Ursula Andress in OHMSS? I suppose that is a bit different... ;)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited November 2021 Posts: 17,620
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    They'll probably throw half a dozen 00s into the book, see which ones are the most popular and feature those in the remaining two books. Sounds like the first one's market research!

    I still wouldn’t rule out Alec Trevelyan in one way or another. Maybe he’s the mole in MI6.

    A film character appearing in the literary Bond world? Sacrilege!

    Can we say that Fleming already did this by including Ursula Andress in OHMSS? I suppose that is a bit different... ;)

    Yes, there was the odd limited crossover with the films in Fleming's novels towards the end but for some reason I don't feel it's appropriate the other way around. The film Bond gets enough exposure without leaching into the literary Bond world as well. Just my thoughts as a Fleming purist.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,517
    Fair enough!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,955
    I see no issue with introducing ideas that originated from the films. After all, a female M was introduced in the novels shortly after GOLDENEYE.

    The trick is whether they have permission to use EON related materials. If not, 006 might as well be renamed, or it’ll be different traitorous 00.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,792
    Well I guess a female M isn’t a copyright-able idea, but an actual named character probably would be.
  • mtm wrote: »
    Well I guess a female M isn’t a copyright-able idea, but an actual named character probably would be.
    Nevertheless, the female M seen in Gardner's Cold is supposed to be the same than in the Goldeneye novelisation, right? Also, isn't the Barbara Mawdsley name from the continuation novels comes from Goldeneye early drafts?
  • Leon12Leon12 England
    Posts: 16
    I'm wondering if this is the first steps to a Marvel type 'Bond universe' where he doesn't feature himself but various spin off characters, time will tell I guess.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2021 Posts: 14,792
    mtm wrote: »
    Well I guess a female M isn’t a copyright-able idea, but an actual named character probably would be.
    Nevertheless, the female M seen in Gardner's Cold is supposed to be the same than in the Goldeneye novelisation, right? Also, isn't the Barbara Mawdsley name from the continuation novels comes from Goldeneye early drafts?

    Well Gardner did a lot of bending around to make GoldenEye fit his continuity: didn't Bond have to be demoted to Commander or something? Plus don't forget he had Felix maimed for a second time in LTK! :D
    I've never heard of the Mawdsley name ever having anything to do with Eon, I've always assumed it's a Benson invention.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,350
    The descriptions read like Bond is a legend to these new 00s, so it will be interesting to see, how they position him age-wise.
    He obviously can't be the same guy, born in 1920/21, as in the Fleming/Horowitz-timeline. I've never read the continuations, other than Deaver and Horowitz. Do they do the thing from the films, where Bond is just perpetually between 35 and 45? Or does he age?
    Anyway, if for this they set him up to be, let's say 50 in 2022, so born in 1972, they could then try and position some prequels to that timeline as future novels with Bond as the main character that don't have to dance around the exact words of the Fleming canon but also don't have to go extremely current with it.
    On the other hand, I am thinking in a way to "comic book universe"-way about this. If you have to spend 5 minutes explaining the timeline implications of a Bond novel, you have probably greenlit the wrong pitch.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,792
    As I remember Gardner did age him ever so slightly, although he didn't really get any older over the period he was writing them; and then Benson just put Pierce Brosnan in his.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,620
    mtm wrote: »
    As I remember Gardner did age him ever so slightly, although he didn't really get any older over the period he was writing them; and then Benson just put Pierce Brosnan in his.

    Yes, that's right. Gardner did age him slightly. He's meant to be 50 or in his 50s by the time Licence Renewed (1981) begins. Gardner also tells us that he's greying at the temples slightly which is fair enough. So you could say some subtle aging was done to the character. However, this didn't stop one criric from writing a review of Licence Renewed entitled "Bond at 70"(!)

    You're also right in that while Gardner was given the brief to bring Bond into the 1980s having acquired the knowledge and tradecraft he would in the intervening years, Benson was briefed to bring his novels in line with the Brosnan Bond films as much as possible.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,955
    Leon12 wrote: »
    I'm wondering if this is the first steps to a Marvel type 'Bond universe' where he doesn't feature himself but various spin off characters, time will tell I guess.

    Kinda surprised there hasn’t been a Leiter novel. He’s already had his own comic book.

    felix-leiter-issue03-cover1.jpg
  • Leon12 wrote: »
    I'm wondering if this is the first steps to a Marvel type 'Bond universe' where he doesn't feature himself but various spin off characters, time will tell I guess.

    Kinda surprised there hasn’t been a Leiter novel. He’s already had his own comic book.

    Side note: while reading the Felix Leiter comic books, I had sometimes the impression that Robinson was more interested in telling a Tiger Tanaka story. I wouldn't be against more products about Tiger (novel, comics, anything). Of all the Bond characters, this is, IMO, the one that has the characteristics best suited for a spin-off.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2021 Posts: 7,517
    Leon12 wrote: »
    I'm wondering if this is the first steps to a Marvel type 'Bond universe' where he doesn't feature himself but various spin off characters, time will tell I guess.

    Kinda surprised there hasn’t been a Leiter novel. He’s already had his own comic book.

    Side note: while reading the Felix Leiter comic books, I had sometimes the impression that Robinson was more interested in telling a Tiger Tanaka story. I wouldn't be against more products about Tiger (novel, comics, anything). Of all the Bond characters, this is, IMO, the one that has the characteristics best suited for a spin-off.

    Minor NTTD Plot Spoilers:
    The end of NTTD when Tanner and M are mentioning the Japanese secret service, would have been a perfect time for a very brief mention of Tiger; wish they did it!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,955
    That would have been a cool callback! Oh well.
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