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And the Willard Whyte achievement award goes to...page 138

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  • MalloryMallory
    Posts: 2,079
    mtm wrote: »
    Mallory wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It might be quite fun to do worst model shot next :) Maybe the crashing plane on wires at the end of GF, or the 747 in Moonraker?

    Stromberg's boat leaving the Liparus is really really poor.

    Oh yes! :)) That's a disaster, it looks absolutely tiny.
    Reminds me of the ice dragster going over the edge of the ice cliff, which I think is a tiny model and not CG?

    Also the fact that scene runs at like 5 frames a second is really weird, super dodgy slow-mo.

    I can think of a couple of poor instances of model work, but the Stealth Ship from TND is all over the place scale wise, I can never work out how big it is meant to be, or the geography of the ship. It is both massive and really small at the same time.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 13 Posts: 15,124
    Yeah the geography makes no sense: where is that missile supposed to be? And then there's a whole engine room somewhere too. It's like a TARDIS.
    Especially as Bond and Wai Lin arrive underneath the thing without being spotted, but at the end they drop from the missile straight down into the water, so it was open under there the whole time?
    The modelwork there isn't terrible though: you can tell it's a model in a few shots but it's not the worst.
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    Posts: 800
    Mallory wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It might be quite fun to do worst model shot next :) Maybe the crashing plane on wires at the end of GF, or the 747 in Moonraker?

    Stromberg's boat leaving the Liparus is really really poor.

    Hugo Drax's industries.
  • MalloryMallory
    edited May 13 Posts: 2,079
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah the geography makes no sense: where is that missile supposed to be? And then there's a whole engine room somewhere too. It's like a TARDIS.
    Especially as Bond and Wai Lin arrive underneath the thing without being spotted, but at the end they drop from the missile straight down into the water, so it was open under there the whole time?
    The modelwork there isn't terrible though: you can tell it's a model in a few shots but it's not the worst.

    The actual model work is fine, as you say, but the scaling is off.

    Best I can do is this, and even then, it doesnt make that much sense.

    68f973393550a66b25fd1e0375192cc3.jpg

    I had never noticed that but yes, why is the floor open for them to fall in to? It is established early on that it does open (for the sea drill) but why is it open now? Gah... never mind :D
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,029
    Ha, this thread is getting more and more interesting! Definately love the work done in CR and SF. And indeed, the stealth boat is all over the place. It always gets me confused. The sunken frigate (it was a frigate?) in the same film really looks like a model to me. I don't really know why, probably the way it's laying on the sea bed. It just doesn't feel like a multi-tonne ship at all.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,671
    TLD gets my vote!
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited May 13 Posts: 3,073
    Mallory wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah the geography makes no sense: where is that missile supposed to be? And then there's a whole engine room somewhere too. It's like a TARDIS.
    Especially as Bond and Wai Lin arrive underneath the thing without being spotted, but at the end they drop from the missile straight down into the water, so it was open under there the whole time?
    The modelwork there isn't terrible though: you can tell it's a model in a few shots but it's not the worst.

    The actual model work is fine, as you say, but the scaling is off.

    Best I can do is this, and even then, it doesnt make that much sense.

    68f973393550a66b25fd1e0375192cc3.jpg

    I had never noticed that but yes, why is the floor open for them to fall in to? It is established early on that it does open (for the sea drill) but why is it open now? Gah... never mind :D

    Yeah, when you start to think about the boat’s geography it makes no sense… which is why I consciously choose not to think about it whenever I watch TND!

    Anyway, I’ll be annoying and write in the sinking house in CR.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,124
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Ha, this thread is getting more and more interesting! Definately love the work done in CR and SF. And indeed, the stealth boat is all over the place. It always gets me confused. The sunken frigate (it was a frigate?) in the same film really looks like a model to me. I don't really know why, probably the way it's laying on the sea bed. It just doesn't feel like a multi-tonne ship at all.

    Yeah, I think the issue is we know you just wouldn't be able to see all of it at the bottom of the sea- the water is too clear really.
    To be honest I don't think the missile launching from the ship in the PTS looks all that great, so I was surprised they reused that shot (was it in DAD?).
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,024
    Good stuff academy members! Yes @CommanderRoss who knew we were passionate about models and model work. Give me a good model and maybe matte painting over some of the CGI work that I see in movies today.

    Keep those votes coming and feel free to write-in like @007HallY did, not annoying in the least my friend.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,029
    mtm wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Ha, this thread is getting more and more interesting! Definately love the work done in CR and SF. And indeed, the stealth boat is all over the place. It always gets me confused. The sunken frigate (it was a frigate?) in the same film really looks like a model to me. I don't really know why, probably the way it's laying on the sea bed. It just doesn't feel like a multi-tonne ship at all.

    Yeah, I think the issue is we know you just wouldn't be able to see all of it at the bottom of the sea- the water is too clear really.
    To be honest I don't think the missile launching from the ship in the PTS looks all that great, so I was surprised they reused that shot (was it in DAD?).

    Those missiles are way too obvious CGI, but I've always forgiven them for that, as launching real ones is a completely different ballgame, and launching model missiles won't work either as they have different dynamics.

    Talking of DAD, I think they should.ve done the Antonov as a model too, the CGI plane, again, is sh***.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 13 Posts: 15,124
    I'm pretty much sure that is a model missile firing from the deck of that model ship; I don't think there's any CG going on. I expect they're being pulled by a wire or something.
    The actual CG missile we see flying has much cruder smoke etc.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,041
    The DAD shot is reused from TND, that's correct, but the DAD missile is a different shape and colour - that one must be CGI added over what looked like a real object firing imo.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,024
    Okay the members have spoken and we have a winner!

    The winner for best model work in a James Bond film are....The Living Daylights the film received 6 votes.

    Also receiving votes were Moonraker with 3 votes, Goldeneye with a vote. We had a high number of write in votes for TMWTGG, CR and SF.

    Lets flip the script and give a Klebbie to worst model work in a film. The nominees are:
    • Goldfinger the film may be the gold standard but the model work isn't. Goldfinger's plane looks terrible as it flies the friendly skies. The plane crashing at the end into the sea is also not great. Sure it was 1964 but this looks like amateur hour.
    • Tomorrow Never Dies a great convo unfolded above about the Stealth ship. It deserves a nomination here as the scale seems inconsistent and the interior doesn't always align to what the exterior looks like.
    • Spy Who Loved Me Stromberg escaping the Liparus is rather laughable and jarring. Clearly a model with the fake people in the boat who fail to move when the boat hits the sea.
    • Goldeneye some gave it love, others said it wasn't worthy. Lets see how the academy thinks about it being the worst. From water that springs up when it should be going down, to weirdly looking Russian planes. Maybe GE deserves a kick to the shins.

    There we have your nominees for worst model work. Who are you giving a swift kick to the shins to?
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 3,073
    None of these are too bad, just not the best model work of the series.

    I’ll go for GF. Great film, but like all of Hamilton’s Bond films there’s sometimes a sloppy quality to some of the filmmaking (in this case bits of the model work) as if things have been rushed or appropriate care hasn’t been fully taken to get things up to a certain standard.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,314
    I'll go for GE and excuse the cheap GF effects because these were the early Sixties. Neither of the other effects bothered me much. In GE, it always struck me that the dish was not wet after the water runs empty. Clearly, they filmed the filling of the dish and reversed the sequence. The 1990s had better effects available.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 16 Posts: 15,124
    Got to be GoldenEye for me too: I can see that the Spy boat is probably the single worst model shot (and I'm actually not a great fan of Atlantis: it always looks the size the model is to me, and the design doesn't help that because you can't get an idea of how big it's supposed to be without any recognisable reference points) but GE just contains bad model shot after bad model shot. The toy helicopter landing, the plastic building blowing up before the titles, the appalling MIG crash sequence (which is reason enough to win on its own I think), the pretty poor dish transformation sequence, the Thunderbirds tank in the tunnel... as Zebra says, there were much better effects around at the time.
    A lot of the time I can sort of suspend my disbelief even if it's clear it's a model (like the Vulcan landing or whatever) but with the MIG crash it's the sort of situation where the visuals onscreen are actively not helping me to imagine what the situation being depicted would be like, they're that poor.

    Honourable mention for that shot of the almost-microscopic Lotus model nearing Atlantis underwater with the alka-seltzer inside it, leaking what would be balloon-sized bubbles :D

    Oh and the 747 at the beginning of Moonraker- the way it just drops down out of shot suddenly as if it's not flying along with forward momentum but is just, well, a model on strings :D
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 6,878
    GE for me too! Not Derek Meddings finest hour!
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,049
    Going for Spy for this one. It's one of those shots that just makes me laugh every time at how terrible it is.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,041
    Liparus boat for the win.

    Nearly went with GE only because of the effects of the MiG. When the third jet crashes, it bounces around a bit and clearly does not have the weight to dig into the ground more or break apart more on impact. The footage is slowed down a bit too, which doesn't help hide it. Other than that, the rest of GE looks good or at least acceptable to me. The train, satellite, Severnaya landscape, it's still impressive. Arkangel facility has a couple of large pieces fly off in an unrealistic manner when it blows, but that might not be obvious on early viewings like the plane crash was for me.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,351
    Some really good ones here, but going to with a write in vote of Never Say Never Again just based on the absurdity of this one.

    The fake horse they drop into the ocean looks sooooo bad it’s clear the horse is fake and only made worse that for the last cut shot to the ocean in the original cut they actually take a real horse and toss it into the water back first. So shot that looks terribly fake and yet still put the real horse through a really traumatic stunt.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 17 Posts: 15,124
    Vic Armstrong's book is quite interesting to read on that front. He was actually a horse trainer first and foremost and although had done plenty of stunt doubling that was his main thing. He spent a long time training the horse to be comfortable with the stunt and was always present to ensure its safety and well-being, plus I think he doubled Bond for the jump.
    From there he got more and more into stuntwork and became one of the most famous stunt doubles and supervisors, and of course second unit directors around.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,029
    I'm ging for the Moonraker 747 write-in. The whole sequence is absurd, and made far worse by the drop of the 747 that's been bouncing around on the chords already. It isn't too difficult to actually imply foreward motion.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,351
    mtm wrote: »
    Vic Armstrong's book is quite interesting to read on that front. He was actually a horse trainer first and foremost and although had done plenty of stunt doubling that was his main thing. He spent a long time training the horse to be comfortable with the stunt and was always present to ensure its safety and well-being, plus I think he doubled Bond for the jump.
    From there he got more and more into stuntwork and became one of the most famous stunt doubles and supervisors, and of course second unit directors around.

    Thanks for these additional details. It's good to hear the trainer took good care to make the horse comfortable. Still doesn't sit right with me that the horse is dropped like that though it may be completely safe, but point taken and thanks for explaining this.

    The fake horse is so bad though :)
  • MalloryMallory
    Posts: 2,079
    It's between the TSWLM model boat, and the TND Stealth Ship.

    The TSWLM model is only on screen for a few seconds, the TND Stealth Ship is a lot longer. And messes up the whole geography of the ship, layout etc.

    Therefore I vote for the TND Stealth Ship.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,024
    The time has come for me to flap to the stage and present our Klebbie for worst model effects in the series. The kick on the shins is delivered to Goldeneye accepting the award in a pained face is Pierce Brosnan.

    It's time for us to consider another Bond legend for the Willard Whyte greatest series achievement. The last time we considered some nominees the esteemed academy chose John Barry for his consistently high quality music for the film adventures of double-o-7.

    Who deserves the Willard Whyte award for lifetime achievement to the film series. The nominees are:
    • Bob Simmons Bob delivered some wonderful stunt work to the films. He even received some screen time in some roles including SPECTRE 6 from TB who battles Bond while in high heels. He even perfected an effect that simulated a man flying from an explosion in the film YOLT
    • Richard Maibuam love him, or hate him and fans seem to do both, there is no denying his writing helped to bring Bond to the Big Screen. Maibaum had a finger in the first four films and then went on to write another 7 films. Maibaum was able to come up with creative story ideas and in some cases improve the original Fleming plot.
    • Ken Adams whether given a modest budget, or a large one. Adams was able to show it on the screen with some fantastical sets. Whether it's the simple room where Dent gets the spider, or a hollowed out volcano lair. Mr Adams always could deliver sets that fit the grand scale of the Bond films.
    • Purvis and WadeNeal Purvis and Robert Wade have written 7 films, including all of the Daniel Craig films. They seem to be able to find the gems left in the books and weave them into new original stories. Some have complained about their writing and scripts. But most of their films have achieved financial success. When the producers were faced with a jam with NTTD, they turned to this duo to fix things up.
    • Martin Campbell admittedly Martin has only two films to his credit as a Bond director, but when you consider the two films you can see why he might deserve an achievement award. In just over a decade Campbell directed 2 new Bond actors in their first roles. GE and CR are high on most peoples lists as great films. Not only successfully introducing a new actor, but in the case of GE, reviving the franchise after a 6 year hiatus.

    Whose getting the Willard Whyte award for lifetime achievement to the series?
  • Reflsin2bourbonsReflsin2bourbons
    Posts: 115
    Purvis and Wade are probably not going to get any votes: they are the often the first thing fans complain about in respect to the modern films. I'll go for Ken Adam, for the incredible set design and the most iconic villain lairs in the history of film
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,136
    Richard Maibaum.

  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,643
    @thedove: you could "almost" divide this into two parts: Lifetime achievement for DN to LTK and then for the era covering GE to NTTD. And if I had that option, I'd select Martian Campbell as my latter-day MVP.

    However, since the question isn't worded that way, I'll second @RichardTheBruce, and vote for Richard Maibaum.

    PS: Where is John Barry? :-B
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,024
    Dwayne wrote: »
    @thedove: you could "almost" divide this into two parts: Lifetime achievement for DN to LTK and then for the era covering GE to NTTD. And if I had that option, I'd select Martian Campbell as my latter-day MVP.

    However, since the question isn't worded that way, I'll second @RichardTheBruce, and vote for Richard Maibaum.

    PS: Where is John Barry? :-B

    He won the first time we did a lifetime achievement award, so he wasn't put up for nomination.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,643
    Sorry about that @thedove. It's right there on page 77 of this thread!!!!
    I am, shall we say: "back end of horse."
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