NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    Posts: 3,277
    matt_u wrote: »
    ISHbLUl.jpeg

    You know the cool thing about this? It’s a narrative / editing technique called ELLIPSIS.

    Ellipsis is the narrative device of omitting a portion of the sequence of events, allowing the reader to fill in the narrative gaps. Aside from its literary use, the ellipsis has a counterpart in film production. It is there to suggest an action by simply showing what happens before and after what is observed. The vast majority of films use ellipses to clear actions that add nothing to the narrative. Beyond these "convenience" ellipses, ellipses are also used to advance the story.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    1950's period pieces apparently are favoured by some users here. But I think, they will not do that. Bond was always a man of the times he lived, the movies are set in. I don't think, they will revert to this restriction.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited November 2021 Posts: 1,261
    Feyador wrote: »
    As far as 'The Spy Who Loved Me' goes, (mentioned a few posts back), I know it's seen as an old-fashioned Bond flick, but if you think about it, he does have to rescue a damsel in distress from the villain's lair at the end, using a cool method of getting there. And when he gets there he shoots up all the bad guys, saves the world, kills the villain and rescues the girl.
    I suppose, as radical as they try to make the new Bond, some things never change!
    But that was (more or less) the last 30 mins. of SP, which, literally, everyone hated.

    Not sure of your point here. I was comparing the ending of TSWLM with NTTD. Except Rog ended up getting his leg over, and Craig ended up brown bread.

    Well, Fleming insisted, that EON would not adapt the novel TSWLM, they only were allowed to use the title. And, yes, Fleming died in 1964. But then, claiming, that EON had been disrespecting Fleming and his work, wouldn't this be dishonour Fleming's will? Apart from the fact, that Fleming would have been gutted with all the movies starting with YOLT up to DAD (with the execption of OHMSS)?
    And as a matter of fact,m all the novels, or rather the titles of novels have been used as film titles.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Are cinemas in Oz being well-attended for NTTD? It's the last big market.

    My first viewing was Gold Class in the morning and it wasn't even half full, and the audience was OLD. Everyone else is at work/uni I guess.

    2nd viewing at night was packed and all ages.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    "Objectively", if such a thing exists for movies, NTTD is one of the best thought out movies...the visuals, sound, plot, dialogue, acting. And it neatly finishes knitting the Daniel Craig era sweater. Sure there are some rough patches and perhaps a few loose threads in that sweater but the team does a good job of patching up the retcon, builds on themes developed in previous movies, and ties it up (sometimes too neatly) in a big package. Not all of it works, and that's what you get for not planning out the era in advance, but it's satisfying enough given what they had to work with.

    My opinion of it is mixed. I don't like how they keep questioning and ultimately destroying the character who is Britain's biggest treasure. Since TWINE, Bond's relevance is explored in one form or other. It's as if the film-makers are embarassed by Bond's past (misogyny et al) and are trying too hard to subvert expectations. At the same time they can't let go of the past themselves with constant references to older films. And maybe I'm an old relic because this strategy is paying off, social media is buzzing, and Craig almost puts Connery in the rear view mirror. Brave new world.
  • Posts: 2,400
    w2bond wrote: »
    "Objectively", if such a thing exists for movies, NTTD is one of the best thought out movies...

    I felt even during my first viewing at the premiere that this film really ties each scene into the next and really works to justify the existence of each individual scene within the larger piece as a whole, more than any Bond film before it. However people feel about NTTD, I don't think anyone can claim it was just lazily slapped together or that there wasn't immense care put into its production.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited November 2021 Posts: 2,252
    w2bond wrote: »
    "Objectively", if such a thing exists for movies, NTTD is one of the best thought out movies...

    I felt even during my first viewing at the premiere that this film really ties each scene into the next and really works to justify the existence of each individual scene within the larger piece as a whole, more than any Bond film before it. However people feel about NTTD, I don't think anyone can claim it was just lazily slapped together or that there wasn't immense care put into its production.

    I got Martin Campbell vibes in terms of pacing - the best example is the cigar ash leading to Felix Leiter. Campbell does little visual pacing cues like this. Same with the lifeboat scene - you don't need to see him being rescued.

    I don't care for Brofeld or the whole Madeleine love angle in Spectre. But for the purposes of narrative continuation, I'll accept "cuckoo" and Bond in love again, and it works well enough in NTTD
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited November 2021 Posts: 4,247
    The action is brilliant, Craig is ultra-impressive as always, Zimmer's score is very action-laden, Cary and Linus are stellar, Lynch is sure-footed...the film is good, it's just the ending...that ending! I think I need time to accept it.
  • Posts: 1,043
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    it's just the ending...that ending! I think I need time to accept it.

    I thought I'd mellow on it, and it's been a few weeks now. I still think it's the most stupid thing they've done in the series. It's moved the Tarzan yodel to second place for me.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited November 2021 Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    it's just the ending...that ending! I think I need time to accept it.

    I thought I'd mellow on it, and it's been a few weeks now. I still think it's the most stupid thing they've done in the series. It's moved the Tarzan yodel to second place for me.

    Like I was numb for five minutes, after I finished the film. I had to listen to YKMN immediately to help. And it's funny, but I think YKMN would have been a better song to close the film than WHATTITW.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    it's just the ending...that ending! I think I need time to accept it.

    I thought I'd mellow on it, and it's been a few weeks now. I still think it's the most stupid thing they've done in the series. It's moved the Tarzan yodel to second place for me.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    it's just the ending...that ending! I think I need time to accept it.

    I thought I'd mellow on it, and it's been a few weeks now. I still think it's the most stupid thing they've done in the series. It's moved the Tarzan yodel to second place for me.

    Like I was numb for five minutes, after I finished the film. I had to listen to YKMN immediately to help. And it's funny, but I think YKMN would have been a better song to close the film than WHATTITW.

    In essence, Bond committed what is known as "altruistic suicide." Tony Stark did the same thing. In AVTAK, so did May Day. So, whereas the Tarzan yell was out of character and made no sense, Bond's death does, for this particular version of the character. I seriously doubt it will ever happen again, and I love that DC and Babs had the courage to do it, here. It's a ballsy move and places NTTD and the Craig era as perhaps the most daring.
  • Posts: 372
    Completely agree TripAces. Again, I have been waiting for them to "kill" Bond since QOS was slated. Ending a Bond film with Bond dead = FRWL novel = Double Dare.

    I can't wait to see what they come up with next.

  • GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    it's just the ending...that ending! I think I need time to accept it.

    I thought I'd mellow on it, and it's been a few weeks now. I still think it's the most stupid thing they've done in the series. It's moved the Tarzan yodel to second place for me.

    Like I was numb for five minutes, after I finished the film. I had to listen to YKMN immediately to help. And it's funny, but I think YKMN would have been a better song to close the film than WHATTITW.

    I know that you are only a kiss away.
    I´ve seen your smile in a thousand dreams,
    Felt your touch and it always seems
    You love me,
    You love me.


  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited November 2021 Posts: 1,165
  • TripAces wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    it's just the ending...that ending! I think I need time to accept it.

    I thought I'd mellow on it, and it's been a few weeks now. I still think it's the most stupid thing they've done in the series. It's moved the Tarzan yodel to second place for me.
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    it's just the ending...that ending! I think I need time to accept it.

    I thought I'd mellow on it, and it's been a few weeks now. I still think it's the most stupid thing they've done in the series. It's moved the Tarzan yodel to second place for me.

    Like I was numb for five minutes, after I finished the film. I had to listen to YKMN immediately to help. And it's funny, but I think YKMN would have been a better song to close the film than WHATTITW.

    In essence, Bond committed what is known as "altruistic suicide." Tony Stark did the same thing. In AVTAK, so did May Day. So, whereas the Tarzan yell was out of character and made no sense, Bond's death does, for this particular version of the character. I seriously doubt it will ever happen again, and I love that DC and Babs had the courage to do it, here. It's a ballsy move and places NTTD and the Craig era as perhaps the most daring.

    It's an excellent parallel between Mayday in A View To A Kill. Altruistic suicide it is although I doubt, from the scene and injuries, whether he could have made it out even if he tried. His fate with his lover and daughter did for him.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    it's just the ending...that ending! I think I need time to accept it.

    I thought I'd mellow on it, and it's been a few weeks now. I still think it's the most stupid thing they've done in the series. It's moved the Tarzan yodel to second place for me.

    Like I was numb for five minutes, after I finished the film. I had to listen to YKMN immediately to help. And it's funny, but I think YKMN would have been a better song to close the film than WHATTITW.

    Or maybe YOLT.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited November 2021 Posts: 1,261
    Can't wait for what comes next! More AVTAK than NTTD anyhow.

    Whether you like NTTD or not, AVTAK (which I kinda like BTW, but know the flaws it has)) - or (worse) DAD (which I do not like at all. Apart from the opening up to Bond faking cardiac arrest.) would be the wrong direction. Depending on what actor will incarnate Bond 7, they should find a balance between the seriousness and grittiness we had with Craig, but also try to instill maybe a bit more of well done humour or fun, not the silly humour we had in the Moore and Brosnan era (and DAF) with Bond banging five women at least in the first 30 minutes.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    One thing I was hoping for from the Craig era that I got wrong in that I thought might come back in NTTD was the 007 theme. Not heard since Moonraker, about time that made a comeback.

    Maybe Fukunaga and/or Zimmer did not want to have it in the movie?
  • One thing I was hoping for from the Craig era that I got wrong in that I thought might come back in NTTD was the 007 theme. Not heard since Moonraker, about time that made a comeback.

    Maybe Fukunaga and/or Zimmer did not want to have it in the movie?

    By its absence, that much is evident I thought but appreciate you taking the time to point it out anyway @DoctorKaufmann

    Considering Zimmer leaned heavily (far too heavily for me) on past Bond music and Fukunaga desperately packed in nods to the first 20 movies, maybe it didn't make the cut in the film makers wanting to tug at Bond aficionados heartstrings to make up for a tired story arc reaching its deflating and downbeat conclusion? Who knows 🤷🏼
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 2,161
    My girlfriend came over for her first viewing of NTTD. We have watched all previous other Bond films together at my place, so it this was overdue. It was a surprise as she hadn't realized that it was already available for rental. I had already spoiled it for her with a month of ranting and raving, but she still enjoyed it very much. Her complaints were few; overly long (a feeling I share), and she still does not care for Léa Seydoux's Madeleine (which I thought was a big improvement over her work in SP). She didn't like it that Bond dies, but she accepted it with an eyeball roll as a bad committee decision and was able to get past it far easier than I have, or have been willing to.

    Her favorites are (in no order) CR, SF, YOLT, TB and TMWTGG. She says that NTTD is up there too, if not quite in the top tier.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,730
    Birdleson wrote: »
    My girlfriend came over for her first viewing of NTTD. We have watched all previous other Bond films together at my place, so it this was overdue. It was a surprise as she hadn't realized that it was already available for rental. I had already spoiled it for her with a month of ranting and raving, but she still enjoyed it very much. Her complaints were few; overly long (a feeling I share), and she still does not care for Léa Seydoux's Madeleine (which I thought was a big improvement over her work in SP). She didn't like it that Bond dies, but she accepted it with an eyeball roll as a bad committee decision and was able to get past it far easier than I have, or have been willing to.

    Her favorites are (in no order) CR, SF, YOLT, TB and TMWTGG. She says that NTTD is up there too, if not quite in the top tier.
    YOLT & TMWTGG? Keep her. ;)

  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Over here you can't lease or rent it. Amazon Prime says 30th June, 2022...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,730
    Man, I thought I disliked Skyfall. Now I see it as a bloody masterpiece after NTTD (However MR will always remain my least loved Bond).

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,236
    So I finally saw Bond 25...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,099
    I hope it made you irrationally angry.

    Because then the movie won and you lost.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Another victory lap for NTTD.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,236
    In another few months no one will remember anything about NTTD beyond it being "the one where he dies at the end", except for diehard Craig fans who will defend it just like QoS and SP.
    The movie simply doesn't have anyway near the impact they were going for. They were so desperate for another OHMSS, that they killed off half the cast and the only death that had any weight to it was Felix. I cared more about felix dying than about Bond, how is that even possible? (And I'm not even as attached to Jeffery Wrights portrayal as most fans seem to be.)

    The story was all over the place after a certain point, like they couldn't just pick a plot and stick with it. It's one of the biggest cases of "too much s#@$ going on" I've seen in recently years. Nothing has any room to breathe or develop correctly. It's like they want to make big flashy statements, and don't care about how it's gonna impact the story, and then just forget about it and move on. The entire "Nomi is 007" feels like it was left in from an earlier draft, it doesn't DO ANYTHING in the story, and there's no resolution to it. I can think of so many examples of "rivals to allies" plotlines in other Bond films that were done so much better.

    Something I actually really enjoyed was the opening scene, because it felt a classic mystery thriller set up. But its just another pointless scene, in the end. Like, there's no reason we needed to see a flashback of Madeline as a child. They build it up like Madeline and Safin are gonna have this bond, the fact that he saved her, and his family was killed etc. But what does any of that mean for the story? Nothing, it just gets tossed aside like everything else. Madeline speaks to Safin exactly as she would if he was a complete stranger, so just like Bond and Blofeld relationship from the previous film, what was the point? I thought it would make an interesting dynamic that the Bond girl and villain have this connection, and safin keeps talking about it, even blofeld says "once you discover her secret it'll be the death of you". And then in the end, he's just another bad guy, and I like Rami Maleks performance a lot, the scene in the psych office might be my favourite scene in the movie. I just wished it went somewhere, ultimately.

    And nothing is worse than Blofelds death, I mean that was the worst moment I have seen in a cinema in 10 years at least. In almost 60 years we've never actually seen Blofeld die on screen before. Okay falling down the chimney came close, but still. And remember this is the guy who, just one film prior was the author of all of Bonds pain, everything was leading up to him, they were like brothers, bound together forev- oh, wait no, he just died offscreen whilst Bond has his back turned, moving right along I guess... like seriously, what the F was that?! Bonds arch nemesis and most iconic villain in the series dies, and its just like hes some minor stooge in a Roger Moore film or something. Pathetic really.

    Bond also acts really bizarrely out of character at a couple moments in this movie, just for plot convenience sake. Like when he randomly gets furious at blofeld and starts choking him, when the whole point of the ending to SP was finally letting go of his past. Like why would Blofeld being able to get under his skin now, it doesn't make any sense, but we need Bond to put the nanobots on him somehow, so...
    Also the moment when Bond decides to grovel at the feet of Safin and Safin doesn't realise that he's being played. Firstly, not even Bond from the books would do that, even as a ruse. The filmic Bond certainly wouldn't. And Craigs Bond absolutely, positively would not did that. Its so out of leftfield. And Safin reveals himself to be an idiot for letting the guy sitting across from him to put his hands hidden under his body without being remotely suspicious.
    It's clear from Craig performance that he no longer cares about the consistency of the character he's playing. Which is not to say he isn't putting effort in, and enjoying himself in the role. I think Craig is have a wail of the time in this film, and he gets a lot more Bondian one liners to work with (which is a massive bonus), but from CR to SF he played his Bond more or less the same and you could tell he was careful to keep it consistent across the continuity, like it was one story. Then in SP he let his hair down a bit more, and now he's just full blown going with the flow. Like the character he created at the beginning is a distant ghost at this point. The Craig from CR would never make a "cats come with hair nowadays" joke, and I think even in SF he would have questioned that line, but by now he's just on a "just give me the lines and I'll say them" type beat.

    Weird complaint to make, but all of the action in this was just average. There really wasn't much tension in a lot of the chases, tbh. Not bad, just nothing standout or spectacular. Some of the scenery is nice, but that's kinda expected with Bond and the final base assault was straight up lame. I loved that plane sub thing they flew that was classic Bond coolness, but why does every Craig film end with just one or two people running around a facility and taking out everyone one by one? Seriously they just did this in the last film and it the most boring sequence ever, why do they keep doing it??? What is so exciting and epic about Bond running around an empty cavernous room and picking off targets like a training simulator. Over the course of 5 films they have reinstated virtually every single trope in Bonds library, except for the classic ending of two sides waging battle. And this was the perfect opportunity, they had a end of world scenario set up, a big elaborate villains base on a remote island with gangways and pools of toxic water. IT WAS PERFECT!!! Did they run out of budget or something? How cool would it have been to have like 20 troops drop in and act as a distraction whilst Bond and nomi make their way to the production centre and plant the mines?

    Anyway, I only saw the movie yesterday for the first time, so I'm probably missing stuff. Performance were good all around, Craig actually manages to pull off "breezy" in some parts which is neat. Ralph and Ben are good, but don't get much especially ben which is a really disappointment considering he carried SP. Moneypenny is barely in it. Nomi is surprising tolerable, Lea knocks it out of the park considering she has to do so much of the heavy lifting for a clunky script. Safin would be seriously underrated if he character amounted to anything, but he's still menacing and creepy regardless. I wanted more of him, honestly. Paloma was a breathe of fresh air and a throwback to classic Bond girls of old, she rocked. Overall I give it 4/10.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    Quelle surprise.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,613
    The more I've watched NTTD, the more I'm disappointed with Madeline. Every time she's on screen it's dour, it's like the film as a thrilling adventure takes a nose dive.

    They've tried to sell Madeline as this Bond's Tracy and she's not. Both Tracy and Vesper were interesting, charismatic and ultimately complex characters. That's not to say Madeline isn't complex but her backstory has been spoon fed to us, that it's less impressive. I never buy that Madeline needs Bond or even loves him quite frankly.

    This is no reflection on Lea Seydoux, she is wonderful actress and seems like such a lovely person in interviews.
    I'm disappointed in the writing of Madeline not her performance, the scene where she's in the DB5 frightened and her on the train are heartbreaking. Beautiful moments of acting from her. I just wish the writers let her be more bubbly and bright in NTTD
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 372
    Hmmm, what? Blofeld just show Bond that he manipulated him into distrusting Maddie so that he essentially wasted 5 years of his life by rejecting the woman who love him.
    Of course this will get under Bond skin! I would choke the bastard myself, with enjoyment!

    Regarding the kneeling, the kid is what would change Bond attitude (he knows she is his), so he manipulate Saffin into believing he found his achille heel.

    I love the fur joke. It's pure Moore Bond! It also shows this Bond has some years under the hood and that he has matured.
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