Quantum of Nothing?

edited November 2011 in Bond Movies Posts: 74
Since Skyfall has a plot which does not involve Quantum, and due to the general disappointment with QoS (I love the film!); does that mean Quantum has now been dropped altogether? I thought the first two films did a great job with setting up Quantum. CR made the introduction and QoS had the big reveal. Whether you like that film or not you have to say the way they revealed the organisation was brilliant and Quantum definitely seemed like a smart update of SPECTRE/SMERSH whilst still being sinister. I think Marc Forster said in a few interviews that the ending to QoS was done, so that a different enemy could be introduced should they wish not to use Quantum for a sequel. I only hope they haven't been ditched indefinitely. Anyone else feel the same?
«13456

Comments

  • Posts: 8,677
    Quantum will be back for bond 24 count on it.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    I'm glad Quantum was dropped. A dull bunch of Eurotrash villains in suits does not make a threatening organisation.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    Quantum will certainly return, it is just a question of when. I too love QoS @Mach21Infinity, but after a bitter hate for it. After I realized it would never be CR I see it for the little gem it is. Scratched maybe, but it still shines.
    Shark wrote:
    I'm glad Quantum was dropped. A dull bunch of Eurotrash villains in suits does not make a threatening organisation.
    That's what a believable organization would be like though, as well as their methods apparent in the film. This isn't going to turn into SPECTRE and feature men sitting in chairs and assigned numbers. Those days are far far gone.

  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 11,516
    The peeps at Eon wouldn't let the idea of a new organization slip through their fingers. There's so much they can do with Quantum. I not only look forward to discovering the head of this organization, but the scale of their operation as well. Besides, Mr. White hasn't been killed off yet- he's just been given a permanent limp, much like Valentin.
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 5,745
    QBranch wrote:
    Besides, Mr. White hasn't been killed off yet- he's just been given a permanent limp, much like Valentin.

    I found it interesting how he made all those claims about Quantum of Solace sucking, and how he wouldn't like to return.. And then right before the announcement of Skyfall he comes out and says he was 'misquoted' only MONTHS after the article had been published. See, at first he either really made those statements, or didn't care that the source had twisted his words.. and then perhaps he saw where Eon was going and changed his mind, still wanting to be involved. I definitely think Quantum, and Mr. White will be returning.
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 210
    Since Skyfall has a plot which does not involve Quantum, and due to the general disappointment with QoS (I love the film!); does that mean Quantum has now been dropped altogether? I thought the first two films did a great job with setting up Quantum. CR made the introduction and QoS had the big reveal. Whether you like that film or not you have to say the way they revealed the organisation was brilliant and Quantum definitely seemed like a smart update of SPECTRE/SMERSH whilst still being sinister. I think Marc Forster said in a few interviews that the ending to QoS was done, so that a different enemy could be introduced should they wish not to use Quantum for a sequel. I only hope they haven't been ditched indefinitely. Anyone else feel the same?

    I hope so, it would be stupid to do otherwise, having spent two films building them up to a certain point

    I think after the disatisfaction with QOS there needs to be some reapparisal of where they should be going with Quantum, but they should certainly be brought back, for closure if nothing else

    personally I think they should have been featured in B23 that would make the most logical sense to me

    and the idea that they may be bringing SPECTRE back for B23 seems to me to be one secret organisation too many, the past should be left in the past. lets move on
  • Posts: 8,677
    Shark wrote:
    I'm glad Quantum was dropped. A dull bunch of Eurotrash villains in suits does not make a threatening organisation.
    and what does make for a threatening organization?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,459
    It's interesting that they deleted Mr. White's death scene in QoS--perhaps so he can die another day?
  • Posts: 1,310
    I have a feeling Quantum will be back sooner or later. It seems kind of silly going through the trouble of two films to introduce the organization and then completely ignore it. There is potential to make Quantum 'cool'...as long as the villains aren't all like Dominic Greene. ;)
  • I see Quantum as a organization similar to the Bilderberg Group......well in QOS the opera scene show some powerful people in government and companies
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 534
    Just because Quantum isn't going to be in <i>Skyfall</i>, doesn't mean Bardem's character can't still be a part of Quantum. Bond 24 can reveal Bardem's connection to Quantum, and <i>Skyfall</i> doesn't even have to mention said organization.
  • Posts: 5,745
    Just because Quantum isn't going to be in <i>Skyfall</i>, doesn't mean Bardem's character can't still be a part of Quantum. Bond 24 can reveal Bardem's connection to Quantum, and <i>Skyfall</i> doesn't even have to mention said organization.

    Yes but they said this storyline is entirely different from the previous two films. I doubt they would pull something like that. I always felt they'd have a post-credit scene building supsense to B24.. by having a scene where perhaps Mr. White goes to see the head of Quantum. I think they'd especially do this if Mendes was returning to direct, since it would connect - but not in sequel format - the two films. And they could get away with "James Bond Will Return in >>>>"
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,447
    As this isn't NEWS I have dropped it in to Bond Movies
  • Posts: 210
    SJK91 wrote:
    I have a feeling Quantum will be back sooner or later. It seems kind of silly going through the trouble of two films to introduce the organization and then completely ignore it. There is potential to make Quantum 'cool'...as long as the villains aren't all like Dominic Greene. ;)

    exactly, the best way to redeem QOS reputation would be to make it part of a strong threesome

  • Posts: 297
    I don't know about that. Quantum isn't really that hot a plot device IMO. If 'Skyfall' turns out to be the hit the cast and crew promise it will be, then people most likely won't spend a second thought about Quantum. Lots of people didn't get the point of the outfit, or didn't care for it because it reminded them too much of real-life instead of the escapist fun a Bond flick is supposed to be. If nobody ever hears another word from them I doubt there will be threads on Bond forums in ten years asking what happened to them. The Quantum-gang just fades away.

    Still, one might get an interesting story out of them if they would be revived two or three films down the line, entirely out of the blue. But for the moment I don't miss them too much.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    I can't believe some of the discussions I'm reading. In the 60s, dr.no and frwl had the presence of spectre and then was put on hold for GF and then they returned in TB. It's something that's happened before so I don't understand the shock and horror posts I'm seeing. Quantum won't be gone forever but I think a quantum-free movie is the breather the series and Bond as a character needs.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,534
    Spectre wad put on hold in GF but TB was only released 2 years after FRWL... Now with Quantum not back until Bond 24, it's as if Spectre had been absent of GF, TB and YOLT. So I don't see how people can compare Spectre being absent for 2 years from 1963 to 1965 and Quantum being absent from 2008 to 2014. IMO the 2 absence cannot be compared, as they are totally different.
  • Posts: 5,745
    Spectre wad put on hold in GF but TB was only released 2 years after FRWL... Now with Quantum not back until Bond 24, it's as if Spectre had been absent of GF, TB and YOLT. So I don't see how people can compare Spectre being absent for 2 years from 1963 to 1965 and Quantum being absent from 2008 to 2014. IMO the 2 absence cannot be compared, as they are totally different.

    They're not entirely 'totally different.' They share a couple of two films, a break with a separate story-line, and then a followup to the couple. The time between films can be compared to inflation: just because you have more time, or more paper money, the comparative production time to the movies, or value an object holds, remains at a constant ratio. So what took one year back in the 60's takes us about 2 years now. But compared to all that goes into making a film nowadays, its still about the same ratio.

    Its not 'totally different', just a bit longer for something with quality. Also, as I mentioned, the outlining is the same: Introduction plot, sequel, break story-line, return to organization.

    In fact I'd go and say it was intentional. They're not making Skyfall separate because of the backlash at QoS, but simply because the writers, producers, actors, and viewers all want/need a break from that story-line, to maintain that story-line's value perhaps. They saw the effect Goldfinger had on the Spectre story-line, and they want to mimic its value and success.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,534
    Well I hope that when Quantum returns in Bond 24, the plot won't be as dependent than QOS was to CR, because 6 years is alot for the general audience to remember the subplots from CR and QOS. Quantum back yes, but independent plot like TB was to FRWL and YOLT to TB. The Spectre outings from the 60's were still more 'one-off' sequels than direct sequel like the last 2 films.
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 12,377
    Risico007 wrote:
    Shark wrote:
    I'm glad Quantum was dropped. A dull bunch of Eurotrash villains in suits does not make a threatening organisation.
    and what does make for a threatening organization?

    examples

    A: people who are led by a scary guy with a white cat (blofeld/spectre)

    B: a group of people send thier men to assasinate targets, who jump from the shadows, murder you then disapear, never to be caught or discovered (the assasins from assasins creed)

    C: people who crash planes into the world trade center and become the most feared organisation ever (al queda)

    But i think quantum could turn out ok, but i don't like how everybodys saying that "quantum are better than spectre" "quantum make spectre seem like little girls", judging on what I've seen so far, spectre were alot better than quantum.
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 210
    Kennon wrote:
    I don't know about that. Quantum isn't really that hot a plot device IMO. If 'Skyfall' turns out to be the hit the cast and crew promise it will be, then people most likely won't spend a second thought about Quantum. Lots of people didn't get the point of the outfit, or didn't care for it because it reminded them too much of real-life instead of the escapist fun a Bond flick is supposed to be. If nobody ever hears another word from them I doubt there will be threads on Bond forums in ten years asking what happened to them. The Quantum-gang just fades away.

    Still, one might get an interesting story out of them if they would be revived two or three films down the line, entirely out of the blue. But for the moment I don't miss them too much.

    but what I'm getting at is that if Quantum were to be "jazzed up" in their third outing then peoples perceptions of the organisation will change for the better, retrospectively the audience will watch QOS knowing that down the line Quantum will turn out to be more "colourful" and deliver on the CR promise that wasn't fullfilled by QOS
    the "legacy" of QOS will be changed in hindsight
    QOS would become the second piece in a satisfying whole, rather than the unsatisfactory culdesac which many see it as now

  • Posts: 4,731
    It may be a Goldfinger thing where the producers decided to take a break from SPECTRE and use a completely separate criminal organization as a breather. Personally, I would think the audiences would have been a little forgetful between FRWL and TB, considering DVD an VHS were not available, so it would have been two years maximum. Of course, we don't have that problem, but since QoS didn't really do much for Quantum, I doubt it'll be easy to return to them if that ever happens. Personally, I'm glad that cheesy, worthless villains like Greene are gone.
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 297
    Sorry, edit seems broken.
  • Posts: 297
    Seve wrote:
    Kennon wrote:
    I don't know about that. Quantum isn't really that hot a plot device IMO. If 'Skyfall' turns out to be the hit the cast and crew promise it will be, then people most likely won't spend a second thought about Quantum. Lots of people didn't get the point of the outfit, or didn't care for it because it reminded them too much of real-life instead of the escapist fun a Bond flick is supposed to be. If nobody ever hears another word from them I doubt there will be threads on Bond forums in ten years asking what happened to them. The Quantum-gang just fades away.

    Still, one might get an interesting story out of them if they would be revived two or three films down the line, entirely out of the blue. But for the moment I don't miss them too much.

    but what I'm getting at is that if Quatum were to be "jazzed up" in their third outing then peoples perceptions of the organisation will change for the better, retrospectively the audience will watch QOS knowing that down the line Quantum will turn out to be more "colourful" and deliver on the CR promise that wasn't fullfilled by QOS
    the "legacy" of QOS will be changed in hindsight
    QOS would become the second piece in a satisfying whole, rather than the unsatisfactory culdesac which many see it as now

    Could be, sure. Depends how much 'jazzing up' they are prepared to roll with. I don't know but I still suppose the result would be a bit uneven. CR doesn't mention them in the first place, then QOS suddenly sees them with people everywhere, all very hum-hum and dangerous but mostly off target and low key. And the end then has to shoulder the earth-shattering aspect and save the day while wrapping up the whole bunch. I imagine it's possible but probably a tricky and unlikely development.

  • 003003
    Posts: 2
    Have any of you heard of the scene which Marc Foster left out of QoS (in case Eon didn't want to make the sequel about Quantum) in which Bond approaches Mr White and Guy Haines kills Mr White and interrogates Guy Haines. I have a feeling they might place that at the end of Skyfall so as to remind people of Quantum and also set itself up for a sequel containing Quantum. I don't think that any of the villians of Skyfall with have anything to do with Quantum but I do have a feeling that Ralph Fienes character will have some power and might have some relations to M (in the plot synopsis it says that M's past comes back to haunt her). If he does have relations to M it might be a business partner that she walked over to get to her position and he is looking for revenge. This is speculation so it might not happen but it seems the most likely plot to me. They won't abandon Quantum as then the series would seem odd as it took two movies to introduce a seemingly important and powerful organisation and just to drop it off after that wouldn't work unless they came up with some ridiculous explanation that involves the company falling apart in a short time.
  • Posts: 297
    Well, having thought about it I admit, if Quantum is dropped entirely now the whole show would look pointless to say the least. If it had been just CR there would have been that ominous guy with the money and a few goons in the background, some 'terror financier', there must be diplomas for these types.
    QOS suddenly claimed they were everywhere and really, really bad people, but still their scheme remained in the dark. If there isn't a follow up in the future the whole business remains incomplete, probably more so than the Blofeld arc.
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 74
    echo wrote:
    It's interesting that they deleted Mr. White's death scene in QoS--perhaps so he can die another day?

    *Ding dong*, I hate to point the Goldfinger but you dropped an absolute clanger with that Thunderball! (I'm sure there's room for more puns) ;-)
    Kennon wrote:
    I don't know about that. Quantum isn't really that hot a plot device IMO. If 'Skyfall' turns out to be the hit the cast and crew promise it will be, then people most likely won't spend a second thought about Quantum. Lots of people didn't get the point of the outfit, or didn't care for it because it reminded them too much of real-life instead of the escapist fun a Bond flick is supposed to be. If nobody ever hears another word from them I doubt there will be threads on Bond forums in ten years asking what happened to them. The Quantum-gang just fades away.

    I thought the point of the new 'stripped down' Bond was to give the series a modicum of realism or at least versimilitude. Given that a SMERSH/SPECTRE type organisation would be anachronistic and not fit in to the tone and style of this series, an organisation just like Quantum makes perfect sense. Today's threats are far more different than they were in the 1960's/70's. Terrorism, corporate penetration, corruption, drug cartels, money laundering etc are the new threats, so it makes sense to have an organisation that reflects that reality. If Quantum were not to feature again in the series, I would be quite surprised if people would not question what happened to them. Why wouldn't you? All that build-up and no pay-off, it wouldn't make sense. Saying Quantum isn't a "hot plot device" is a little bit odd but each to their own. They're a smart update to the old SPECTRE/SMERSH organisation and give Bond an indomitable enemy to deal with. What can be more difficult and disturbing than an organisation who has penetrated every layer of society and dictating the terms, altering the state of play? For christ's sake they even had Guy Haines as a special envoy to the Prime Minister.
    Kennon wrote:
    But for the moment I don't miss them too much.

    That's not really a factor when they have people everywhere. ;-)
    But i think quantum could turn out ok, but i don't like how everybodys saying that "quantum are better than spectre" "quantum make spectre seem like little girls", judging on what I've seen so far, spectre were alot better than quantum.

    It's not really a matter of comparing like for like, I haven't really seen anyone say the type of comments you purport. I think SMERSH/SPECTRE belong to a different age, namely the cold war. That age has finished, and we're now in a time where nations have broken down due to territorial disputes and long-running ethnic divisions. Terrorism is the biggest overt 'threat'. Corruption is still rife in places, politicians haven't been playing by the rules, even journalism has been exposed in places as rotten. So in such a murky world where there are numerous shades of grey, an organisation such as Quantum makes the most sense. An organisation that can step in and further facilitate some faction or individual for its own ends. I can't imagine anything more frightening than an organisation who has major influence, power and control over every facet of life - governments, big business, military etc. The likes of Al Qaeda (which is just an ideology of hatred) would look like playground weaklings in comparison.

    On the face of it. I wouldn't say yet there's much grounds to be concerned about Quantum not returning in future films. I guess with the news that Quantum wouldn't be involved in the next film (unless they have a covert role like in CR) and due to a comment by some guy (Indian sounding name?) who's the head of some Bond appreciation club; I did have slight consternation that they may have dropped Quantum. Seeing as though I thought they were a fascinating addition to the series, I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks so.

    As for how Quantum can come back. Well, QoS pointed out some major players for us. First and foremost was Guy Haines (Special Envoy to the U.K Prime Minister). Gregor Karakov, former Russian government minister and owns most of the mines in Siberia. Moishe Soref, a former Mossad operative now a telecom giant. What I found interesting was how Quantum had seemingly penetrated the U.K government but not the U.S. For instance during the superb Tosca scene, when a female member asks "what about the Americans" and after a male members adds "but when they've found out they've been duped?" Haines replies with "I'm working on that".
    003 wrote:
    Have any of you heard of the scene which Marc Foster left out of QoS (in case Eon didn't want to make the sequel about Quantum) in which Bond approaches Mr White and Guy Haines kills Mr White and interrogates Guy Haines. I have a feeling they might place that at the end of Skyfall so as to remind people of Quantum and also set itself up for a sequel containing Quantum. I don't think that any of the villians of Skyfall with have anything to do with Quantum but I do have a feeling that Ralph Fienes character will have some power and might have some relations to M (in the plot synopsis it says that M's past comes back to haunt her). If he does have relations to M it might be a business partner that she walked over to get to her position and he is looking for revenge. This is speculation so it might not happen but it seems the most likely plot to me. They won't abandon Quantum as then the series would seem odd as it took two movies to introduce a seemingly important and powerful organisation and just to drop it off after that wouldn't work unless they came up with some ridiculous explanation that involves the company falling apart in a short time.

    Yeah I heard about that, I think the scene that was set involved Mr. White being at a luxurious property of Guy Haines's somewhere in London. Then Bond would show up and apprehend Haines. The gun barrel sequence was meant to be similar to the one in CR's which would signal the death of Mr. White. Whilst it sounds like a great ending, I prefer the original ending. I like that Mr. White is still at large, as is Haines for that matter. As mentioned elsewhere, Quantum can still have an indirect role. Maybe partly financing whatever scheme is being run? As for what Ralph Fiennes involvement, a bit off-topic but he may not necessarily be playing a villain. I'm going to keep an open mind on that one.
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 297
    Kennon wrote:
    I don't know about that. Quantum isn't really that hot a plot device IMO. If 'Skyfall' turns out to be the hit the cast and crew promise it will be, then people most likely won't spend a second thought about Quantum. Lots of people didn't get the point of the outfit, or didn't care for it because it reminded them too much of real-life instead of the escapist fun a Bond flick is supposed to be. If nobody ever hears another word from them I doubt there will be threads on Bond forums in ten years asking what happened to them. The Quantum-gang just fades away.

    I thought the point of the new 'stripped down' Bond was to give the series a modicum of realism or at least versimilitude. Given that a SMERSH/SPECTRE type organisation would be anachronistic and not fit in to the tone and style of this series, an organisation just like Quantum makes perfect sense. Today's threats are far more different than they were in the 1960's/70's. Terrorism, corporate penetration, corruption, drug cartels, money laundering etc are the new threats, so it makes sense to have an organisation that reflects that reality. If Quantum were not to feature again in the series, I would be quite surprised if people would not question what happened to them. Why wouldn't you? All that build-up and no pay-off, it wouldn't make sense. Saying Quantum isn't a "hot plot device" is a little bit odd but each to their own. They're a smart update to the old SPECTRE/SMERSH organisation and give Bond an indomitable enemy to deal with. What can be more difficult and disturbing than an organisation who has penetrated every layer of society and dictating the terms, altering the state of play? For christ's sake they even had Guy Haines as a special envoy to the Prime Minister.
    Kennon wrote:
    But for the moment I don't miss them too much.

    That's not really a factor when they have people everywhere. ;-)


    Yep, I reconsidered this and you're right there, there ought to be some payoff for the trouble with the Quantum-mechanics.

    I like the idea of them, though some find it politically incorrect (from their point of view at least). What's disappointing about Quantum was the execution with only very little of them shown and the focus of the story (and Bond's focus, I suppose) never really right on the target. There is a lot happening off-screen or off-screen for Bond that's related to them, yet the sense of urgency that should be there doesn't translate to me. M's personal bodyguard one of them, or manipulated into acting on their behalf, comes down to the same. That's already pretty bad, but there comes the fact they are on first name best-buddy-forever terms with some grimy CIA minion, and it's not a case of him going private and earning a little extra on the 'open market'. No, guy is acting with the OK from top level (whatever that's supposed to mean is everybody's guess). And the worst of it is that these Quantum people are even able to lean on what looks like a seasoned Whitehall mandarin! Bond's world on fire!

    But somehow the whole affair is treated as if it was just the monthly misunderstanding in the special relationship; nothing to worry about, let the market forces sort it all out. That's the feeling I got and while the film has plenty of action the real precarious questions are left well alone in the end. Perhaps intention was to get down to it in the next film. But the fact they are giving it a break for the moment to looks as if they are in no hurry there.


  • SharkShark Banned
    edited November 2011 Posts: 348
    Quantum will certainly return, it is just a question of when. I too love QoS @Mach21Infinity, but after a bitter hate for it. After I realized it would never be CR I see it for the little gem it is. Scratched maybe, but it still shines.
    Shark wrote:
    I'm glad Quantum was dropped. A dull bunch of Eurotrash villains in suits does not make a threatening organisation.
    That's what a believable organization would be like though, as well as their methods apparent in the film. This isn't going to turn into SPECTRE and feature men sitting in chairs and assigned numbers. Those days are far far gone.

    Chasing believability at the expense of entertainment value is a fool's errand. Bond should be about the weird, surreal and slightly avant-garde. Craig's films are running counter to that.

    I've gotta say, just because something "makes the most sense," that doesn't make it terrifying.
    What can be more difficult and disturbing than an organisation who has penetrated every layer of society and dictating the terms, altering the state of play?

    What could be more terrifying? That, with an underground HQ, a megalomaniacal leader cult leader instructing his/her minions through a heavily distorted speaker system, and a projection of his/her lips on a huge screen.

    SPECTRE were scary not because of their world ransom plots, but because of their imagery. Quantum lacks that.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,833
    I bet Quantum will come back in a post-credits scene in Skyfall, then as full villains in Bond 24 (who votes for The Final Problem? I do!).
Sign In or Register to comment.