007 heading to streaming? Amazon buys MGM for $8.45 billion!

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  • edited October 2020 Posts: 4,400
    New article from the Hollywood Reporter that has more insight on what happened:



    The main headlines are:
    • Apple were the only serious party involved and willing to pay $350-400m. However, MGM was looking at $650-800m based on the idea that NTTD could have made $1b at the BO.
    • The deal was too rich for Netflix.
    • A potential deal was explored prior to the most recent delay. It seems these talks were happening in late-September and ended when MGM decided to move to theatrical release to April 2021.
    • NTTD has spent approx $50m on marketing to date
    • Kevin Ulrich led in the talks and didn't tell Barbara Broccoli they were happening.
    • It is suggested that Broccoli was not happy.
    • It's mooted in the article that MGM selling their stake in Bond is a possibility.

    NTTD selling to a streamer is a real possibility, however it's clear that MGM and Apple were speaking different languages in negotiations. Apple coming in with a high offer of $400m and MGM entering talks at $800m, means that if the parties meet in the middle you have a $600m deal (probably why that number has been floated around).

    That's the destined figure both parties know that they have coming to in negotiations and t's just way too high.

    I actually think Apple's number is reasonable - especially if you consider this was a figure in September and NTTD was coming out in November when talks were happening. You only had to look at Tenet's BO to see that Apple's figure was sensible (if not conservative). But MGM's $650-800m is crazy. Clearly based on a pre-pandemic estimation. If they are real about this, then they need to move that figure down. Considering Apple are willing to pay and MGM want to sell, then a sensible final number would be $450-500m (even that's nuts) for both parties.

    But the major caveat is that Broccoli ain't ready to send NTTD to streaming. At least not on Kevin Ulrich's terms. I think she has quite the commitment to theatrical (much like Nolan) and wants DC to have a big final movie not go out the back door. (But wasn't there quotes of her talking about streaming???! Where are they???)

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  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,271
    Watching The Irishman as I type great film, Bond would be in good company. If Bond were to appear on streaming (unlikely to happen) I would not be discriminating certainly during unprecedented times, I just want to watch the film.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    Watching The Irishman as I type great film, Bond would be in good company. If Bond were to appear on streaming (unlikely to happen) I would not be discriminating certainly during unprecedented times, I just want to watch the film.

    I agree with you 100%, but convincing Omega, Aston, Heineken, Tom Ford, Belvedere, Bollinger, etc etc may not be so easy.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,271
    Watching The Irishman as I type great film, Bond would be in good company. If Bond were to appear on streaming (unlikely to happen) I would not be discriminating certainly during unprecedented times, I just want to watch the film.

    I agree with you 100%, but convincing Omega, Aston, Heineken, Tom Ford, Belvedere, Bollinger, etc etc may not be so easy.

    It just wont happen the money involved is beyond streaming services, though you make a very good point regarding sponsors/product placements.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    Watching The Irishman as I type great film, Bond would be in good company. If Bond were to appear on streaming (unlikely to happen) I would not be discriminating certainly during unprecedented times, I just want to watch the film.

    I agree with you 100%, but convincing Omega, Aston, Heineken, Tom Ford, Belvedere, Bollinger, etc etc may not be so easy.

    It just wont happen the money involved is beyond streaming services, though you make a very good point regarding sponsors/product placements.

    Agreed. I don't know much about these backdoor deals or whatever, but if Barbara has any say I don't imagine it'll go to streaming until streaming is all that's left.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,271
    Watching The Irishman as I type great film, Bond would be in good company. If Bond were to appear on streaming (unlikely to happen) I would not be discriminating certainly during unprecedented times, I just want to watch the film.

    I agree with you 100%, but convincing Omega, Aston, Heineken, Tom Ford, Belvedere, Bollinger, etc etc may not be so easy.

    It just wont happen the money involved is beyond streaming services, though you make a very good point regarding sponsors/product placements.

    Agreed. I don't know much about these backdoor deals or whatever, but if Barbara has any say I don't imagine it'll go to streaming until streaming is all that's left.

    2021 will be an interesting year I choose to be optimistic in that this will all end and things will get back to some semblance of normality, hypothetically speaking if there is a vaccine in 2021 surely the flood gates will open and people will feel confident to resume normal day to day activities... going to the cinema etc. Worst case scenario we are in the same place in a years time and there is no other option than some movies to take the best deal from streaming services.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    We'll see...
    122996630_358038252112519_7404041828912412173_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=0hphrPcH8roAX_0vGsV&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh3-1.fna&oh=1bbf30ae6eeabc0dacf3a32f88171bcb&oe=5FBEE3C1
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,271
    We'll see...
    122996630_358038252112519_7404041828912412173_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=0hphrPcH8roAX_0vGsV&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh3-1.fna&oh=1bbf30ae6eeabc0dacf3a32f88171bcb&oe=5FBEE3C1

    lol

    Streamfinger
    Doctor No going to the cinema
    From Netflix with Love
    Stream Another Day
    For Apple TV Eyes Only
  • edited October 2020 Posts: 4,400
    Watching The Irishman as I type great film, Bond would be in good company. If Bond were to appear on streaming (unlikely to happen) I would not be discriminating certainly during unprecedented times, I just want to watch the film.

    Amen.

    I actually set up this thread in the wake of a perfect Sunday at home watching The Irishman in comfort. It was a sharp contrast to my cinema trip to see Joker a few weeks before where a bunch of kids were playing on their phones and talking.

    However...The caveat here is that Bond deserves the biggest screen. The Irishman was cinematic in the best sense, but it suited Netflix (perhaps because of the runtime). Also for every Irishman on Netflix, there is a Rebecca.

    The pandemic has made me realise how important the cinema experience is. It's the reason why I sought out the BFI IMAX for Tenet. It'll also be the reason why I'll make more of an effort to go to the cinema when this is over. Not just to Peckhamplex for a fiver (though I love that place) but to some of the more impressive cinemas the city has to offer. I realise now how much I took it for granted.

    5aba6abb6714844946d37ea2637fe52a.jpg

    If MGM/Eon caved and went streaming, it would be a crushing blow for me. I legit got a little down about it yesterday. My hype has seriously nosedived recently. I can't even be bothered to read the total Film article or watch the Rami Malek interview. I just can't get excited with these streaming rumours.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,620
    Great write-up @Pierce2Daniel.

    While I generally have a love/hate thing going when it comes to the attending the cinema, when it is done ‘right’ they’re few things that can match it. The combination of an enthusiastic (near sell-out) crowd and a good (or so bad its’ good) movie is always a memorable experience.

    For example, one of my personal 2019 highlights was seeing a 3D screening of “The Creature From the Black Lagoon” in a packed house (on a Monday evening no-less!). Did I have the movie on DVD? Yes. But seeing it with a large number of fellow fans made the effort (and cost) to see it in a theater extra special. The communal experience of watching a movie can’t be overlooked.

    In some ways – IMO only, of course – the situation the studios and theater chains now face is somewhat similar to that of the mid-1950s in the US. That era saw the rise of television and as a result, movie attendance dropped as many questioned the need to “pay” for entertainment – especially when they could see things for free from the comfort of their own homes. In response, we saw the rise of the “movie epic” (think “Lawrence of Arabia”) and eventually content that you couldn’t get at home. Now with the rise of 60-inch 4K TVs and streaming, I guess the same question is being asked: how do we get people to the movie theater?

    I, for one, don’t have an answer, but I suspect that once the theaters in NYC re-open and I see “2OO1” or “West Side Story” playing somewhere (yet, again), I’m going to go.

    As for NTTD heading to Apple (or some other service), I would only hope that EON/MGM, etc. would allow for some-type of theatrical release once conditions permit.
  • RedNineRedNine Poland
    Posts: 71
    Well obviously this thread is about Bond going to streaming permanently in some capacity. However, the reported deals were for No Time To Die only so I don't really understand the media pushback just yet. Funnily enough the deal falling throuh might actually make the sell to the streaming platform even more likely as MGM will definetely look for a way to get some money and they might just be sold to someone in general or just the Bond rights. Either way I think the brands will not mind having NTTD go to streaming, if they would release the movie on a streaming platform this would easily be the biggest release and movie event in general in 2020 and who knows, maybe even longer, especially if they would manage to get it out during Christmas, we would see a lot of families getting it to watch over christmas break, probably spending their free trials on the movie if they didnt have subscribtion yet ( I know I would).
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    I was away from the forums for a bit and haven't read every single post on this, so I'm sorry if I repeat something that was already discussed.

    I just listened to a podcast that discussed this very shortly and they brought up a point I hadn't heard before:
    For movies and especially for blockbusters like NTTD and Bond films, the leads and the director will have some type of points deal, meaning they earn money on top of their base pay, if the movie does well at the box office (this is mentioned in as a sidenote in the Hollywood Reporter piece). This of course falls flat if the movie is sold to a streamer. I'm not a Hollywood lawyer (shocking, I know), but I personally wouldn't just accept it if I signed on to a project with a certain performance bonus and a couple of years later the company decided to not compete in the market that is relevant for my bonus.

    They might be able to work something out for this one film (because the whole point of selling it to a streamer is to avoid very bad box office performance due to Covid which would in turn mean no/very low bonuses), but if the whole franchise goes to a streamer, this would mean the structure of the deals the lead creatives on the movies get would significantly change. The film is sold once (or never, if the streamer owns the studio) and then it just lives on their platform forever and that's it. I don't we really have an idea, what that would mean for the type of people the franchise can attract (and Bond is still Bond. A selling point in itself), but it would certainly be a change.

    And depending on the company, they might not even care how many people actually see the movie or subscribe or buy it on PVOD, but rather, how many toys or phones they can sell or how many people they can get into their theme parks. Which might turn of certain types of actors and directors.
  • Posts: 727
    Watching The Irishman as I type great film, Bond would be in good company. If Bond were to appear on streaming (unlikely to happen) I would not be discriminating certainly during unprecedented times, I just want to watch the film.

    How can you compare a soggy, low rent american TV movie to James Bond?
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,271
    Watching The Irishman as I type great film, Bond would be in good company. If Bond were to appear on streaming (unlikely to happen) I would not be discriminating certainly during unprecedented times, I just want to watch the film.

    How can you compare a soggy, low rent american TV movie to James Bond?

    That's your opinion which you are entitled too, I did not see The Irishman in that way.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,022
    Martin Scorsese “low rent”, that’s a good one.
  • Imagine a Scorsese Bond.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2020 Posts: 8,022
    The closest thing we have to a Scorsese Bond film is when an iris opens up on Matt Damon at the beginning of THE DEPARTED. Call it a weird Bond/Bourne crossover.
  • The closest thing we have to a Scorsese Bond film is when an iris opens up on Matt Damon at the beginning of THE DEPARTED. Call it a weird Bond/Bourne crossover.

    I remember that scene. It seemed a little jarring.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,271

    ...with a pinch of salt.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737

    ...with a pinch of salt.

    The supposed 'insider knowledge' that this video alludes to should be taken with a pinch of salt.

    That MGM is bleeding cash at an astonishing rate surely has to be true, though. A delay of 18 months from the first projected release date is surely the limit. Even if if does come out in April, I would think that audiences will be severely down, and it has no real chance of hitting the sort of numbers it would be hoping for?
  • Bentley007Bentley007 Manitoba, Canada
    Posts: 565

    ...with a pinch of salt.

    The supposed 'insider knowledge' that this video alludes to should be taken with a pinch of salt.

    That MGM is bleeding cash at an astonishing rate surely has to be true, though. A delay of 18 months from the first projected release date is surely the limit. Even if if does come out in April, I would think that audiences will be severely down, and it has no real chance of hitting the sort of numbers it would be hoping for?

    Does anyone have any idea how much HBO paid for the Snyder Cut? Certainly No Time To Die is a less risky property for them to launch. I mean why would MGM not canvas all streaming options. I am not fully on board with this as a likely option but it certainly seems reasonable. Especially HBO in a post Game of Thrones world.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2020 Posts: 8,022
    Not just a pinch of salt. Midnight's Edge have been proven to be frauds that don't actually have insiders but get their info by postings on 4chan.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Not just a pinch of salt. Midnight's Edge have been proven to be frauds that don't actually have insiders but get their info by postings on 4chan.

    Fair enough.

    The point about MGM likely to be true, though.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,022
    I wouldn't know, I'm not bothering to watch any of their videos so they get no support.

    Besides, I'm sure it's info you can find elsewhere. MGM having internal issues? In other news, the sky is blue.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    I wouldn't know, I'm not bothering to watch any of their videos so they get no support.

    Besides, I'm sure it's info you can find elsewhere. MGM having internal issues? In other news, the sky is blue.

    Yes but the point is not to big up Midnight Edge or whatever they are called, just to consider what the likelihood of NTTD going to ppv or streaming.
  • Bentley007Bentley007 Manitoba, Canada
    Posts: 565
    I wouldn't know, I'm not bothering to watch any of their videos so they get no support.

    Besides, I'm sure it's info you can find elsewhere. MGM having internal issues? In other news, the sky is blue.

    Yes but the point is not to big up Midnight Edge or whatever they are called, just to consider what the likelihood of NTTD going to ppv or streaming.

    I guess the new information is what is being called into question not the willingness to sell. We have it confirmed that they tried but couldnt get their asking. I am more curious about whether HBO has appriached MGM. This seems like it would be a good selling partner. As I said earlier HBO has a riskier film being released in the new year comparatively Bond is a slam dunk.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited November 2020 Posts: 23,271
    I don't know the fine details regarding Justice League: The Snyder Cut, though HBO Max and DC are both owned by Warner.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    I don't know the fine details regarding Justice League: The Snyder Cut, though HBO Max and DC are both owned by Warner.

    Basically HBO Max is paying $70 million+ to let Snyder release his uncompromised 4 hour vision. They hope the SC to perform well in order to expand the Snyderverse on HBO Max with a Batfleck miniseries with Leto's Joker and Manganiello's Deathstroke, a possible JL sequel Snyder already has planned etc etc.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,271
    matt_u wrote: »
    I don't know the fine details regarding Justice League: The Snyder Cut, though HBO Max and DC are both owned by Warner.

    Basically HBO Max is paying $70 million+ to let Snyder release his uncompromised 4 hour vision. They hope the SC to perform well in order to expand the Snyderverse on HBO Max with a Batfleck miniseries with Leto's Joker and Manganiello's Deathstroke, a possible JL sequel Snyder already has planned etc etc.

    I heard rumors of the proposed series you mentioned, unfortunately HBO MAX wont be available in the UK at any time it seems. though SKY or Netflix will likely pick up Justice League: The Snyder Cut
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,271
    Wonder Woman 1984 could release on HBO Max a week after cinemas
    https://www.gamesradar.com/uk/wonder-woman-1984-could-release-on-hbo-max-a-week-after-theaters/

    I think this illustrates that films won't be delayed indefinitely even huge films like WW84, It will be interesting to see what Warner decide.
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