NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Critical Reaction and Box Office Performance

1101102104106107172

Comments

  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    When I saw it just last weekend, there was an older couple behind me that were just loving it. When "James Bond will Return" appeared at the end, they gasped and began clapping. Warmed the cockles of my heart.
  • Posts: 3,289
    Minion wrote: »
    When I saw it just last weekend, there was an older couple behind me that were just loving it. When "James Bond will Return" appeared at the end, they gasped and began clapping. Warmed the cockles of my heart.

    That's nice to hear.

    Bizarrely I've also heard stories of people booing at the end too. It didn't happen the 2 times I saw it.

    Not sure if this is true. If so, that would surely be a first at the cinema?
  • Stuff the pandemic. Get to the cinema America people and support Bond. It's safe!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,066
    slide_99 wrote: »
    $56 million. Yikes. I guess audiences don't want to sit in a theater for 3 hours during a pandemic with their reward being a tragic, depressing ending. This one's not gonna have legs.

    We'll know after weekend #2. CR's 2nd weekend dipped by only 5% and had in excess of a 4x multiplier. If NTTD drops to 25m, then its US BO has faltered compared to the rest of the world....just get it out to streamers like HBO Max faster.

    To be fair, CR’s second weekend at the US box office was during Thanksgiving weekend, which has always given a nice boost for the following Bond films.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 314
    Minion wrote: »
    Anyone calling this a downer ending is too hung up on Bond’s death. We all die eventually, and he died happy knowing he both had a family and a legacy and they were safe. Madeleine telling the story of Bond to Matilde as Louis Armstrong began to play left me and my friends with a big, wide grin on all of our faces. Quite frankly, to most people this ending won’t be any different than Logan or Endgame

    I don't get why people are comparing Bond's death to Logan or Tony Stark. They didn't die and then pop up again in the next film. Bond will do that so imho it's a flawed comparison. It's also worth mentioning Batman/Bruce Wayne did not die in The Dark Knight Rises so the Batman franchise has never had to resurrect Bruce Wayne.

    What we're seeing with Bond 25 and 26 is unprecedented in film history. The death of the hero and then the statement confirming the hero will return. That has never being done before so there is no comparable example. The only example I can think of is The Death Of Superman comic storyline published in the 1990s.
  • QQ7QQ7 Croatia
    Posts: 371
    https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/world/?ref_=bo_nb_hm_tab

    Just compare domestic and foreign numbers for Venom and NTTD.
    It's clear that one movie appeals to USA and other to foreign audience and vice versa.

    Only 23% of Venom's earnings are foreign.
  • Posts: 3,289
    bondywondy wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Anyone calling this a downer ending is too hung up on Bond’s death. We all die eventually, and he died happy knowing he both had a family and a legacy and they were safe. Madeleine telling the story of Bond to Matilde as Louis Armstrong began to play left me and my friends with a big, wide grin on all of our faces. Quite frankly, to most people this ending won’t be any different than Logan or Endgame

    I don't get why people are comparing Bond's death to Logan or Tony Stark. They didn't die and then pop up again in the next film. Bond will do that so imho it's a flawed comparison. It's also worth mentioning Batman/Bruce Wayne did not die in The Dark Knight Rises so the Batman franchise has never had to resurrect Bruce Wayne.

    What we're seeing with Bond 25 and 26 is unprecedented in film history. The death of the hero and then the statement confirming the hero will return. That has never being done before so there is no comparable example. The only example I can think of is The Death Of Superman comic storyline published in the 1990s.

    This is why I'm still struggling with it. It feels like taking liberties with the franchise, taking the fans for fools. We can kill him off, and then claim he'll return again for the next one, don't worry.

    The only plausible way this could have been handled is leaving the death ambiguous - did he die, didn't he die. Leaving it open wouldn't bring in these huge question marks for the next film. I honestly don't think Cubby would have agreed to this.

    You don't mess about and kill off a 60 year old franchise so flippantly and expect to keep all the fans on board, in the hope they just accept anything you throw at them and they'll buy it so easily.

    It feels like this was Babs and Craig's last throw of the dice before selling out to Amazon, so they decided to burn it to the ground, go out all guns blazing, to hell with whatever happens next.
  • QQ7QQ7 Croatia
    Posts: 371
    For what is worth, I also think that killing Bond and bringing him back in few years latter is incredibly clumsy and insulting.
    Part of me, dare I say it, want the whole franchise to end with this one.
  • manovermanover uk
    Posts: 170
    Think we need patience here..let's see how bond does stateside over the next 2 weekends..hopefully it has good legs.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2021 Posts: 8,066
    QQ7 wrote: »
    https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/world/?ref_=bo_nb_hm_tab

    Just compare domestic and foreign numbers for Venom and NTTD.
    It's clear that one movie appeals to USA and other to foreign audience and vice versa.

    Only 23% of Venom's earnings are foreign.

    It will not surprise me if the US box office 2021 ends with the top four titles being Marvel films (Black Widow, Shang-Chi, Venom, and Spider-Man), which really demonstrates just how massively popular Marvel is in the US. I don't think Bond has a chance of cracking that top four.
  • To me NTTD edges ahead of Skyfall in terms of best Bonds. I love the gritty realism as written by Fleming. Give me Bond over Marvel any day.
  • Forgot to add, Casino still all time favourite.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    slide_99 wrote: »
    $56 million. Yikes. I guess audiences don't want to sit in a theater for 3 hours during a pandemic with their reward being a tragic, depressing ending. This one's not gonna have legs.

    The official total is now $55.2 million...
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    Minion wrote: »
    When I saw it just last weekend, there was an older couple behind me that were just loving it. When "James Bond will Return" appeared at the end, they gasped and began clapping. Warmed the cockles of my heart.
    That's a great reaction.

    I've actually yet to see the line in person because at both my screenings the cleaning crew turned the lights on completely and started cleaning about mid-way through the credits. Makes it a tad awkward to sit there as the only person left!
  • Posts: 3,333
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    Bond generally doesn't have a spectacular opening weekend in the States, but it usually has a great holdover figure. Remember TND stayed at No.2 at the US box office for six weeks and that was against the might of Titanic. Let's wait to see what happens second week.
    A point well made @cooperman2. Brosnan's Bond movies were extremely well recieved in the US and performed much better, each one out performing the last. Subsequently, the first big drop-off came with CR in the US, which if history is to repeat itself, then Bond 26 will also suffer a similar fate with a change in actor. The good word of mouth of CR helped give the movie new legs in the second week and it also found further success on pay-per-view channels and DVD, generating further interest for QoS. Bond 26 will also need to have a very good word of mouth to repeat the same upward trajectory as Craig's era in the US.

    I understand the superhero rivalry topic and it's a valid one, but the US has always had a rather laissez-faire attitude towards James Bond dating as far back as Lazenby following on to Moore's second Bond outting and then with Dalton's tenure and finally Craig's first movie. It's not that Bond isn't popular in the States, it's more a case of Americans not really being too fussed about it unless there's good reason to be. UA's intervention with Brosnan in the 90's was a very smart business move as it gave the US audience something that it had been longing to see since the cancellation of Remington Steele—a Bond that they could identify with and was their own heir apparent.

    If the studio (now owned by Amazon) wants to repeat the same success as Brosnan's era then they're going to need to appoint an actor that Americans are onboard with and see as their heir apparent. Plus, they're going to need to crank these movies out faster to keep up the interest and maintain the momentum. The gamer market is also something they'll need to address if they want to attract younger followers. Of course, the games needs to be groundbreaking otherwise it'll be counterintuitive. Also, Bond 26 will need to hit the ground running much like a modern day TSWLM or GE. Go too leftfield and the gap could widen further. One thing they can't afford to do is lose the older market which they seem heavily dependant on, so it'll be a fine balancing act.

    That said, I'm sure the pandemic has had an adverse effect in the States with the older generation, despite the cinemas bending over backwards by social distancing and multi-screen showings. By all accounts, it's probably the best time to go see a Bond movie in the US if you don't like packed cinemas or sitting too closely to strangers. I really don't know what more they can do besides holding private screenings.

    Hollywood insiders are now predicting around -55% ($24.8m) for NTTD's second weekend. This also coincides with the release of Halloween Kills. It wouldn't be the first time Hollywood execs got their numbers wrong and things slightly improve, but it'll be dependant on how many screens remain open to NTTD in the second and subsequent weeks. One thing is certain, if NTTD continues to have a lackluster performance in the States, they'll be plenty of behind-the-scenes scrutiny as to why this was and how to improve it next time.
  • EinoRistoSiniahoEinoRistoSiniaho Oulu, Finland
    Posts: 73
    bondsum wrote: »
    One thing is certain, if NTTD continues to have a lackluster performance in the States, they'll be plenty of behind-the-scenes scrutiny as to why this was and how to improve it next time.
    Based on how popular Marvel dreck is popular in the U.S., perhaps the best way to improve is to not to think as the U.S. market as end-all, be-all. It certainly is very important, but not the whole world. In Europe NTTD is doing tremendous business, and to my knowledge it hasn't opened in China yet, which is being projected of becoming the most largest single cinema market.
    Bond audience is older than average Marvel fan, and I'd wager that middle-aged people aren't comfortable enough to return to cinemas just yet. I am sure NTTD will recoup back it's costs within a year or so, because of streaming services aside Bond does well on physical home video.
  • bondsum wrote: »
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    Bond generally doesn't have a spectacular opening weekend in the States, but it usually has a great holdover figure. Remember TND stayed at No.2 at the US box office for six weeks and that was against the might of Titanic. Let's wait to see what happens second week.
    A point well made @cooperman2. Brosnan's Bond movies were extremely well recieved in the US and performed much better, each one out performing the last. Subsequently, the first big drop-off came with CR in the US, which if history is to repeat itself, then Bond 26 will also suffer a similar fate with a change in actor. The good word of mouth of CR helped give the movie new legs in the second week and it also found further success on pay-per-view channels and DVD, generating further interest for QoS. Bond 26 will also need to have a very good word of mouth to repeat the same upward trajectory as Craig's era in the US.

    I understand the superhero rivalry topic and it's a valid one, but the US has always had a rather laissez-faire attitude towards James Bond dating as far back as Lazenby following on to Moore's second Bond outting and then with Dalton's tenure and finally Craig's first movie. It's not that Bond isn't popular in the States, it's more a case of Americans not really being too fussed about it unless there's good reason to be. UA's intervention with Brosnan in the 90's was a very smart business move as it gave the US audience something that it had been longing to see since the cancellation of Remington Steele—a Bond that they could identify with and was their own heir apparent.

    If the studio (now owned by Amazon) wants to repeat the same success as Brosnan's era then they're going to need to appoint an actor that Americans are onboard with and see as their heir apparent. Plus, they're going to need to crank these movies out faster to keep up the interest and maintain the momentum. The gamer market is also something they'll need to address if they want to attract younger followers. Of course, the games needs to be groundbreaking otherwise it'll be counterintuitive. Also, Bond 26 will need to hit the ground running much like a modern day TSWLM or GE. Go too leftfield and the gap could widen further. One thing they can't afford to do is lose the older market which they seem heavily dependant on, so it'll be a fine balancing act.

    That said, I'm sure the pandemic has had an adverse effect in the States with the older generation, despite the cinemas bending over backwards by social distancing and multi-screen showings. By all accounts, it's probably the best time to go see a Bond movie in the US if you don't like packed cinemas or sitting too closely to strangers. I really don't know what more they can do besides holding private screenings.

    Hollywood insiders are now predicting around -55% ($24.8m) for NTTD's second weekend. This also coincides with the release of Halloween Kills. It wouldn't be the first time Hollywood execs got their numbers wrong and things slightly improve, but it'll be dependant on how many screens remain open to NTTD in the second and subsequent weeks. One thing is certain, if NTTD continues to have a lackluster performance in the States, they'll be plenty of behind-the-scenes scrutiny as to why this was and how to improve it next time.

    Great points made but I'd hate to cast an actor just to appeal to the US market. Needs to be the right actor full stop.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    I spoke to an American friend who isn't into Bond but her mum is. She said to me that at some point she'll take her mum to see it but they're waiting until the cinema is less busy because they're specifically worried about COVID.
  • Posts: 3,333
    bondsum wrote: »
    One thing is certain, if NTTD continues to have a lackluster performance in the States, they'll be plenty of behind-the-scenes scrutiny as to why this was and how to improve it next time.
    Based on how popular Marvel dreck is popular in the U.S., perhaps the best way to improve is to not to think as the U.S. market as end-all, be-all. It certainly is very important, but not the whole world. In Europe NTTD is doing tremendous business, and to my knowledge it hasn't opened in China yet, which is being projected of becoming the most largest single cinema market.
    Bond audience is older than average Marvel fan, and I'd wager that middle-aged people aren't comfortable enough to return to cinemas just yet. I am sure NTTD will recoup back it's costs within a year or so, because of streaming services aside Bond does well on physical home video.
    The much touted Chinese market has been rather overblown. Bond isn't as popular there as you've been lead to believe. Also, the Chinese take a hefty 70% of all tickets sold, so it might be a nice bonus for the US studios wanting to make a few extra dollars, but it's not crucial to the movie's overall success. Besides, China is now looking to scale back the amount of Hollywood movies being shown there in future.

    Of course, you can choose not to think about the US market, but the Hollywood execs will think about it.
    Great points made but I'd hate to cast an actor just to appeal to the US market. Needs to be the right actor full stop.
    I agree it needs to be the right actor, but it also needs to be an actor that also appeals heavily to Americans, or the studio can forget about building upon the existing foundations. Further concessions will have to be made going forwards if NTTD underperforms.
  • What about making 2 Bond films..one for the American market and one for the rest of the world? 😉
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Here where I live if you go to a movie theater you have the absolute certainty that everyone around you is either vaccinated or proved negative within the previous 48 hours. So it feels very safe.
  • EinoRistoSiniahoEinoRistoSiniaho Oulu, Finland
    edited October 2021 Posts: 73
    I am not saying that EON should ignore the U.S. market, it of course is very important. And the next actor will most likely be someone who appeals (or might appeal) to the Americans.
    I am pretty certain that Bond 26 won't cost anywhere near 250+ million dollars. There has been an upward trend of huge budgeted genre movies bombing, which creates pressure to scale down the budgets. The rise of streaming services has played a role in this and COVID pandemic has hastened the progress.
    Do I want Bond to go Roger Corman route? Of course not, but there's no reason why they couldn't create a rousing, spectacular adventure with a smaller budget.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,333
    matt_u wrote: »
    Here where I live if you go to a movie theater you have the absolute certainty that everyone around you is either vaccinated or proved negative within the previous 48 hours. So it feels very safe.
    That's very positive news. Which kinda leads me to believe part of the underwhelming 4-day opening could possibly be due to the initial marketing being a massive miscalculation and causing a bit of a stir even though it wasn't fully warranted. Maybe the movie never fully recovered from it? We also have to factor in the spoilers that leaked from the UK and some fans not wanting to see Bond 8-X It might not effect you or some of the other fans here, but I can see a lot of disconnect elsewhere on social media that cites this being one of the fundamental reasons why they're staying away from NTTD. Again, we need to allow the dust to settle before we get to see the whole picture, but that won't stop us from forming our own early hypothesis. That's what we do here on MI6.
    I am not saying that EON should ignore the U.S. market, it of course is very important. And the next actor will most likely be someone who appeals (or might appeal) to the Americans.
    I am pretty certain that Bond 26 won't cost anywhere near 250+ million dollars. There has been an upward trend of huge budgeted genre movies bombing, which creates pressure to scale down the budgets. The rise of streaming services has played a role in this and COVID pandemic has hastened the progress.
    Do I want Bond to go Roger Corman route? Of course not, but there's no reason why they couldn't create a rousing, spectacular adventure with a smaller budget.
    I think you're right @EinoRistoSiniaho. The budget for Bond 26 will be heavily scaled back from NTTD. Also, maybe not having Craig on-board will help alleviate some of the rising costs?
  • EinoRistoSiniahoEinoRistoSiniaho Oulu, Finland
    edited October 2021 Posts: 73
    Wasn't Craig paid over 20 million for NTTD? Next actor will probably get 1/10 of that for his first film. Employ Cubby's motto: put it all to the screen, not to the pocket of your leading man!
  • Posts: 620
    The posters and (to a lesser extent) trailers for NTTD are the worst I've ever seen for a Bond movie. So tired, ugly, and completely lacking in inspiration. I'm actually surprised the movie is doing as well as it is, despite posters where Craig appears to be constipated, finishing a piss, or co-starring with Seydoux in a remake of THE INCREDIBLE TWO-HEADED TRANSPLANT.

    I saw an interview with Broccoli and MGW during the premiere, where Broccoli said that Craig didn't even want to do another Bond after SPECTRE but they talked him into it (reading between the lines, they threw a sh*tload of money at him). What a missed opportunity for a reboot.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 12,837
    Minion wrote: »
    Quite frankly, to most people this ending won’t be any different than Logan or Endgame

    Yeah, this is why I don’t buy the idea of the ending having any effect on the box office numbers. People accepted it with those other examples. I think it’s been divisive amongst Bond fans because this series is from a different era of blockbusters, and some of us still miss those days, but I’m not sure that audiences as a whole will care.

    Bond has never done massively well in America in recent years, has it? I was reading a reddit thread about NTTD’s box office earlier today that talked about Bond’s audience there skewing older (in contrast to the UK, where it appeals to all ages).

    I think the US box office is probably a result of that being amplified by the pandemic and the comic book competition. I doubt the ending factored into it, personally, but that’s just me.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    I think the US box office is probably a result of that being amplified by the pandemic and the comic book competition. I doubt the ending factored into it, personally, but that’s just me.

    Agreed. Plus, NTTD has very good scores both on RT and IMdB. The ending is not a factor at all.
  • 9IW9IW
    Posts: 59
    -36% of the US audience was over 45. The old folks did their part to support the film. The younger crowd made their statement with Venom on both weekends. I have 2 children, 3 godchildren and 6 niece/nephews, all in their 20’s. Not one went to see it. Bond does not resonate with these kids.

    -67% of the US audience was male. That seems a little high for action in general and Bond particularly. FWIW, my 21 year old daughter thinks Craig is an “old guy” and my wife ranks him 4th among Bond actors on the sexy scale. Take a date to the movie, fellas. Geez.

    -2nd week drops for F9, Black Widow and Venom suggest a 55-60% drop for NTTD this week, putting it in the $25 million range. That projects to about a $150 million domestic cume, but I think that number is really tenuous. We are going to have to wait and see on this. Note that Venom out performed NTTD on its first Monday despite NTTD enjoying a Monday holiday.

    -As has been pointed out, China looms at the end of the month and will add significantly to the $300 million worldwide gross. It will help, but a China dollar is not even close to a US dollar in terms of profitability. It is really hard to predict, but I am thinking China will contribute $75-90 million to the total.

    -Paramount pushed back Top Gun’s November opening. It was going to be pretty late in NTTD’s theatrical run, but its absence may help Bond a bit. Top Gun is going to be huge domestically regardless of when it opens. The young people in my family mentioned above will all go see it, early and often.

    -Bond historically has legs and this market is a weird one. Again, its a wait and see situation. But, it is fun to speculate and I think it is probably going to end up with about a $700 million total.


  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    Minion wrote: »
    Quite frankly, to most people this ending won’t be any different than Logan or Endgame
    Bond has never done massively well in America in recent years, has it? I was reading a reddit thread about NTTD’s box office earlier today that talked about Bond’s audience there skewing older (in contrast to the UK, where it appeals to all ages).
    I was under the impression that Skyfall was a rousing success for Bond in the States, which it seems it was, but I just checked for comparison and it made $300 million domestically whereas that years Avengers film made over $600 million domestically.

    Bondsum noted the staying power of some of the previous films in the States in a previous post, but it's interesting to look back to see that even the unadjusted high of Skyfall couldn't take on the superheroes despite both films having a similar international performance.

    I suppose it's hard to pinpoint why exactly that is. I'm all for some smaller budgets going forward, as others have mentioned.
  • Posts: 620
    If EON/MGM wanted massive box office in the U.S., they should have rebooted six years ago with a different actor, cut the budgets a bit, and gotten these things out on a regular schedule.
Sign In or Register to comment.