Colorcorrecting Skyfall and SPECTRE:

edited August 2017 in Fan Creations Posts: 3,273
Decided to post the videos as requested here, since they have nothing to do with Bond 25 and the production diary thread! Background for posting:

From: https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/10843/bond-25-production-diary-daniel-craig-confirms-his-return-for-final-bond-performance/p981
Zekidk wrote: »
Zekidk wrote: »
Jeffrey wrote: »
I hope for Bond 25 that bright colours return. SF was pretty dark in colour as is SP. SP also has this yellow glow on a lot of scenes. Just imagine how much colour the Mexico scenes could have brought to the screen.

Thank God for the Lumetri panel in Adobe Premiere ;-)

Let's see it!

Just uploaded. They went overboard with the colorgrading. Example from my own version and personal preference (comments appreciated):
Zekidk wrote: »
It looks excellent, I love it! Also, I would love to see the whole scene colorcorrected without cutting back and forth betweeen the two version. Do you have that? If so, can you please upload it when you have time?

Sure, I can do that. I can also include other examples from both SF and SP. The only two Bond movies I felt like colorcorrecting.

Here are several examples from both movies:



And here's the colorcorrected tracking shot from SP:



I'll take "like I as Bond fan want to see it" (meaning natural and vibrant) over "like the director wants you to see it." Sorry, Sam.
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Comments

  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited August 2017 Posts: 1,165
    I'm in your camp for Spectre at least. It makes it feel more inline with the other movies.
  • RC7RC7
    edited August 2017 Posts: 10,512
    I was always averse to the grade on SP as far back as the trailers. I didn't understand the lack of vibrancy in the Mexico scenes, but I've learned to live with it and can accept Mendes' decision. I would've preferred a more vibrant palette.

    However, the same can't be said about SF for me. Your colour correction sucks the atmosphere and life out of the shots completely. It's good you've posted as it's a decent example to show how they got it very right with that movie and how it's follow up pushed it too far.
  • Honestly the only time I had a problem with it in SP was the gunbarrel. Apart from that I thought it suited the film. Especially in Mexico and Morroco.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited August 2017 Posts: 1,165
    What settings did you use to color correct the Spectre PTS? If you don't mind telling, that is...
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 3,273
    RC7 wrote: »
    Your colour correction sucks the atmosphere and life out of the shots completely.

    I just don't like the intense colorgrading in both movies. The bar scene in SF is all orange and does not look natural. Removing it may "suck the atmosphere out completely" for some viewers, but what do I care? Like I said: it's personal preference only and made for my own viewing only.
    Minion wrote: »
    What settings did you use to color correct the Spectre PTS? If you don't mind telling, that is...

    Used the RGB curves, and highlights -33, shadow +20 and overall saturation set to 120.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I think mendes is over clever. To me the better version is without all this color bs. Though quantum had a bit of an intresting color pallet. How come it works for that film?
  • RC7RC7
    edited August 2017 Posts: 10,512
    Zekidk wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Your colour correction sucks the atmosphere and life out of the shots completely.

    I just don't like the intense colorgrading in both movies. The bar scene in SF is all orange and does not look natural. Removing it may "suck the atmosphere out completely" for some viewers, but what do I care? Like I said: it's personal preference only and made for my own viewing only.

    My mistake. I thought you'd posted it on a discussion forum.
    Honestly the only time I had a problem with it in SP was the gunbarrel. Apart from that I thought it suited the film. Especially in Mexico and Morroco.

    I thought Morroco was very good also. I would've preferred Mexico to be a little more vibrant and I'd have upped the blues in Austria a little but otherwise, in context, it works.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 5,767
    RC7 wrote: »
    I was always averse to the grade on SP as far back as the trailers. I didn't understand the lack of vibrancy in the Mexico scenes, but I've learned to live with it and can accept Mendes' decision. I would've preferred a more vibrant palette.

    However, the same can't be said about SF for me. Your colour correction sucks the atmosphere and life out of the shots completely. It's good you've posted as it's a decent example to show how they got it very right with that movie and how it's follow up pushed it too far.
    I wouldn´t go as far as saying that, but at least in SF the color-filtering somehow works together with the cinematography. The SF examples even appear as if the shots were meant to make sense only with color-filtering. I wasn´t even aware that there was so much filtering, I thought it was mostly the lighting.

    SP on the other hand looks truly glorious without the filtering, the shots in the desert exude the majesty of Lawrence of Arabia or Star Wars. I don´t get anything like that from the official version.

  • Posts: 3,273
    @RC7 Feel free to discuss your flavor. I see no reason to defend my own.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Did you think Quantum's version of grading was unnatural? I think that was much more natural than the yellows of SP. Good job Zekidk!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Zekidk wrote: »
    @RC7 Feel free to discuss your flavor. I see no reason to defend my own.

    Like I say I thought you'd posted it for discussion. Not knocking your attempt, just pointing out that SF and SP are very different in the way they use colour and filters and there's not a catchall resolution to me.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    Though SF was fine, although the scenes in Morocco in SP, Christ it looks 10x better.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,366
    RC7 wrote: »
    However, the same can't be said about SF for me. Your colour correction sucks the atmosphere and life out of the shots completely. It's good you've posted as it's a decent example to show how they got it very right.

    That's straight up rude.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    However, the same can't be said about SF for me. Your colour correction sucks the atmosphere and life out of the shots completely. It's good you've posted as it's a decent example to show how they got it very right.

    That's straight up rude.

    Eh?
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 3,273
    @RC7 Actually never thought about posting these, before someone asked me to.

    I'm not very fond of Mendes' creativity here, but I respect of course if others are. You are not correct though when saying that "SF and SP are very different in the way they use colour and filters." There are many simliarities, especially Mendes' love for orange. Some times it works for me, some times it doesn't. In my SP version I didn't make a single change to the Rome-scenes, because I thought it fitted the mood perfectly and just looked good. In the bar scene in SF? Way too much.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Someone mentioned that they didn't like QoS's grading. I thought it was fine. What do you think?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Zekidk wrote: »
    @RC7 Actually never thought about posting these, before someone asked me to.

    I'm not very fond of Mendes' creativity here, but I respect of course if others are.

    I appreciate you posting it and understand if you don't like it. That's fair enough, mate.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited August 2017 Posts: 7,071
    @Zekidk If anything I feel like you've put the life back into Skyfall. One of the complaints I've got about that film is a lifeless feel throughout. Or, how Sammy Boy wants desperately to be taken for a 'meaningful director' while shooting a Bond picture. Not appropriate for a Bond film in my opinion.

    Compare Istanbul in Skyfall with Istanbul in From Russia with Love for instance.
  • Posts: 3,273
    Someone mentioned that they didn't like QoS's grading. I thought it was fine. What do you think?

    Which part of QoS did that someone refer to? Some scenes are graded, some are not. And they are graded differently.

    I think QoS looks very vibrant and good overall. A great entry if it wasn't for the shakycam. I don't feel any need for it to be tampered with, like SF and SP.
  • Posts: 463
    Never had an issue with the color grading in either film myself, but I can definitely see why someone wouldn't like the extreme color temperatures used in SP, particularly during the opening scenes in Mexico.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Someone mentioned that they didn't like QoS's grading. I thought it was fine. What do you think?

    Which part of QoS did that someone refer to? Some scenes are graded, some are not. And they are graded differently.

    I think QoS looks very vibrant and good overall. A great entry if it wasn't for the shakycam. I don't feel any need for it to be tampered with, like SF and SP.

    001 said this: Yes i agree again (it's been said many times before) how they stuffed up the colour in Skyfall and Spectre.
    Even QOS has the same nasty effects.

  • edited August 2017 Posts: 11,119
    I think this is all rather disrespectful to the cinematographers working on this. It's like putting up a huge middle-finger to Robert Schaeffer, Roger Deakins and/or Hoyte van Hoytema. Like shitting right in their faces.

    To me you get a bit more respect if you make it to become a real cinematographer and actually managing to improve on your predecessors while shooting a Bond film. But this? It's all too 'fan-wanky' for me.

    Also, fandom like this is destroying the respect for the final product. I mean, do we do this kind of stuff for classic Bond films? For example if we disagree with Ted Moore? No. Because the status they received permits us from doing that. But by doing this with recent Bond films, we're actually helping destroying a certain future status of newer Bond films. I dislike it.

    I don't think I use disrespectful words @Zekidk. And if you feel offended, it wasn't my intention. But sadly, this is how I think about it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,346
    I think this is all rather disrespectful to the cinematographers working on this. It's like putting up a huge middle-finger to Robert Schaeffer, Roger Deakins and/or Hoyte van Hoytema. Like shitting right in their faces.

    To me you get respect if you make it to become a real cinematographer and actually managing to improve on your predecessors while shooting a Bond film. But this? It's all too 'fan-wanky' for me.

    There's nothing wrong with trying things differently. it's not like it's an officially released version that replaces the official one.
  • Posts: 3,273
    Not very useful, @PropertyOfALady, unless @001 would care to point out some examples. He may be right. He may be wrong. It's been a couple of years since I've seen QoS.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 3,273
    To me you get a bit more respect if you..

    I'm not looking for your respect. And I am never in the mood for someone who
    criticize other people's go at trying to be creative.

    "Like shitting in their faces"? Why are you in the 'Fan Creation' section, if your agenda is trying to bring people down? Simply saying "it's not for me, and I don't like it" would suffice.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 11,119
    Zekidk wrote: »
    To me you get a bit more respect if you..

    I'm not looking for your respect. And I am never in the mood for someone who
    criticize other people's go at trying to be creative.

    "Like shitting in their faces"? One advice, guy: stay the f.... away from the 'Fan Creation" section, if your agenda is trying to bring people down.

    I need to apoligize @Zekidk. Iam very sorry :-(. It was not my intention to harm you or to bring you down. And I really really tried to not use offensive language or words that are really offensive.

    Still, this is not my style of doing things @Zekidk. I just don't like it very much if we re-do work that men like Hoyte van Hoytema invested so much time in. That's my honest opinion. I respect your work, but I don't like it. My apoligies once again.

    Regarding fan creations? I love writing for instance. Or making desktop backgrounds. But when I write I am not going to write my version of SP or I'm going to make my own main titles for a previous film. It's not very much my style. I hope you understand.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @Zekidk If anything I feel like you've put the life back into Skyfall. One of the complaints I've got about that film is a lifeless feel throughout. Or, how Sammy Boy wants desperately to be taken for a 'meaningful director' while shooting a Bond picture. Not appropriate for a Bond film in my opinion.

    I think you touch on an interesting point. I think a lot of the negativity directed at both his entries is built on this idea he is deliberately trying to be pretentious. Narratively, I can see the argument, but visually I just don't buy it, especially with SF. Deakins is one of the best DOP's working today and between him and Mendes they deliver a film that is visually stunning from composition to lighting to grade. It's rich and atmospheric. I simply cannot see how this film is lifeless. In fact I'd say it's one of the most misjudged sentiments I've heard directed at it.
    Zekidk wrote: »
    @RC7 Actually never thought about posting these, before someone asked me to.

    I'm not very fond of Mendes' creativity here, but I respect of course if others are. You are not correct though when saying that "SF and SP are very different in the way they use colour and filters." There are many simliarities, especially Mendes' love for orange. Some times it works for me, some times it doesn't. In my SP version I didn't make a single change to the Rome-scenes, because I thought it fitted the mood perfectly and just looked good. In the bar scene in SF? Way too much.

    But for me you need the sticky heat in that bar scene and your correction cools it. Again, it's preference, but I'm of the mind that SF was incredibly carefully considered between Mendes/Deakins. On the other hand I'm not sure the relationship between Sam and Hoyle was quite the same and a lot of the look appears to have been created in post.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited August 2017 Posts: 40,889
    Murdock wrote: »
    I think this is all rather disrespectful to the cinematographers working on this. It's like putting up a huge middle-finger to Robert Schaeffer, Roger Deakins and/or Hoyte van Hoytema. Like shitting right in their faces.

    To me you get respect if you make it to become a real cinematographer and actually managing to improve on your predecessors while shooting a Bond film. But this? It's all too 'fan-wanky' for me.

    There's nothing wrong with trying things differently. it's not like it's an officially released version that replaces the official one.

    This. It's a fan creation, like anyone else. Personally, I appreciate seeing SP color-corrected. Much nicer on the eyes.

    I have my issues with SF, but personally, I thought the cinematography was one of its strongest highlights. One of those movies where I feel like I could pause at any point, and the image on screen would make for a cracking desktop wallpaper or a poster.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I think this is all rather disrespectful to the cinematographers working on this. It's like putting up a huge middle-finger to Robert Schaeffer, Roger Deakins and/or Hoyte van Hoytema. Like shitting right in their faces.

    To me you get respect if you make it to become a real cinematographer and actually managing to improve on your predecessors while shooting a Bond film. But this? It's all too 'fan-wanky' for me.

    There's nothing wrong with trying things differently. it's not like it's an officially released version that replaces the official one.

    This. It's a fan creation, like anyone else. Personally, I appreciate seeing SP color-corrected. Much nicer on the eyes.

    I have my issues with SF, but personally, I thought the cinematography was one of its strongest highlights. One of those movies where I feel like I could pause at any point, and the image on screen would make for a cracking desktop wallpaper or a poster.

    Yes! +1
  • JeffreyJeffrey The Netherlands
    Posts: 308
    I agree with you, @Zekidk, the Rome chase is a perfect example of where the colour grading as is works. I think this is also the case for the train fight sequence in SP.

    Overall, in my opinion, I do think the corrections you made are an improvement. What stood out to me the most, where the shots in Morocco, really beautiful.

    Thanks for posting!
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