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  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,776
    Just the amount of times he attempted to stop or discredit an investigation that, in the end, stopped just short of exonerating him tells me that yes, he did have just as much to hide as he claimed he didn't.

    If he was so damned innocent of his crimes, maybe work toward allowing the investigation to prove that rather than trying to attack it. Guess that's too stupid an idea, though.
  • Methinks he & his doth protest too much.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    edited March 2019 Posts: 11,756
    I wasn't going to comment here until we have the Mueller report.
    We don't have it. Congress has not even seen it.

    So way too premature to draw conclusions. What we got was Barr's summary. That is all. You can buy the spin from any angle if you want, but I am waiting for the full report.

    I'm also not worried. Cases have been handed off, prosecutions of Trump family and organization members will continue.

    I believe Mueller would be fair and thorough, and I still think that is the case. No reason to think otherwise.

    Barr was put in place to spin this pro-Trump as much as he could, and he did try. The quotes from him are segments, fractions and he is the one giving opinion on this - not Mueller.

    So relax, plenty of more popcorn needed. But Trump has in no way been proven innocent. LOL indeed. ;) Mueller followed his guidelines and Barr actually did overstep his.

    The "Russia conspiracy" is not the heart of what will prove Trump's corruption. So much else will, especially via his now destroyed foundation.

    Carry on, and have a little faith in our democratic system. I do, though the wheels turn slowly (and majority of people in media are losing their minds, spinning out of context and control). The spin will change, pendulums swing, and life goes on. I do trust this will shake out in the long term, and Trump will be found to be corrupt. Prison? I don't know and that's never been my focus. Found guilty, fined, assets seized, ruined? Probably, but that is for future courts to decide. But I want everything corrupt to be exposed and prosecuted and it still will be. Cheers!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2019 Posts: 16,202
    I want Trump's corruption heavily linked to his current GOP support base. I want those greedy sods voted away like used toilet paper & replaced with PROPER Republicans.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    Posts: 11,756
    Of course many, many in the GOP need to be held accountable.
    Also, once this all shakes out, really asap, we need to get better laws in place for the role of president; and tighter laws regarding political contributions, etc. I think our founding fathers did not think it would get this far, this bizarre.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,202
    Of course many, many in the GOP need to be held accountable.
    Also, once this all shakes out, really asap, we need to get better laws in place for the role of president; and tighter laws regarding political contributions, etc. I think our founding fathers did not think it would get this far, this bizarre.

    Amen.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,277
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    An independent investigation that concluded there was NO EVIDENCE of collusion between Trump and the Kremlin to influence the election.

    But yes, because some clown on a movie message board believes the evidence is "out there in plain sight," we've all been hypnotized.

    Can't wait for the next kernel of wisdom from Beatles.

    :)) Love it!
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,499
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I want Trump's corruption heavily linked to his current GOP support base. I want those greedy sods voted away like used toilet paper & replaced with PROPER Republicans.

    I'm generally curious. What's your definition of PROPER Republicans?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    Posts: 11,756
    I know you asked, Chris, but I'll say briefly that for me a "proper" Republican or other party is someone who puts our Constitution, rule of law, and democracy above any political leanings/parties.

    I can disagree with others about policies and we can work together to find decent compromises, etc. That's my core standing. I have never voted straight ticket; I look at every candidate, every policy.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,499
    I know you asked, Chris, but I'll say briefly that for me a "proper" Republican or other party is someone who puts our Constitution, rule of law, and democracy above any political leanings/parties.

    I can disagree with others about policies and we can work together to find decent compromises, etc. That's my core standing. I have never voted straight ticket; I look at every candidate, every policy.

    Would have preferred a response from you anyway. Well said.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    Posts: 11,756
    Thanks. There are decent people everywhere in America. That is why I have faith this will work out for my country. Not giving up.
  • Posts: 519
    I am eagerly awaiting the contents of a report that will prove -- beyond a shadow of a doubt -- that Trump sleeps with call girls and eats at McDonald's.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    edited March 2019 Posts: 11,756
    hahaha! ;) That is only in the preface. The "meat" of the report will be counter intelligence. Anyway, YES to the full release of this report. In full (but I don't mind top secret classified names being redacted to save agents globally, etc.). If this is the report Trump is crowing about, heavens he should WANT it all released, every bit. Yep. Though it seems McConnell just confusingly (and by that I mean "as expected") blocked the proposal to have the full report shown. Hmmm ...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,202
    Remington wrote: »
    I know you asked, Chris, but I'll say briefly that for me a "proper" Republican or other party is someone who puts our Constitution, rule of law, and democracy above any political leanings/parties.

    I can disagree with others about policies and we can work together to find decent compromises, etc. That's my core standing. I have never voted straight ticket; I look at every candidate, every policy.

    Would have preferred a response from you anyway. Well said.

    She said what I would have said (in a more awkward & sarcastic way). ;)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 6,838
    Remington wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I want Trump's corruption heavily linked to his current GOP support base. I want those greedy sods voted away like used toilet paper & replaced with PROPER Republicans.

    I'm generally curious. What's your definition of PROPER Republicans?

    Not that you were asking me or that I'd want to be part of the discussion in that way, but a shout out for McCain is in it's place here methinks.

    afak by the way the Mueller investigation has done what it should do: prosecute those who break the law. As I understand it they haven't found enough evidence to start a case against Donald for wilful collusion or coordination. That doesn't mean he's not beeing played by the Russians. And their meddling has been proven without a doubt in court.

    I think that in itself should worry just about anyone still believing in democracy.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,202
    should worry just about anyone still believing in democracy.
    Democracy? When ISIS is invading us? Killing us by the thousands each day? Mexicans flooding our elementary schools with drugs (not to mention stealing our Fritos in the process)....
    We don't need no stinkin' Democracy!
    We need a Republic infiltrated by White Supremacists that have our back!
    (not often I do sarcasm that nearly makes me cry...)
  • Posts: 6,417
    What is certain is that everyone, no matter where they stand politically should be delighted to hear that Trump was not involved (at least not directly) in any collusion if that turns out to be the case. Anything else would be pathetique!

    What is also pathetique though are the pro Trump supporters who declare that an invesrigation that resulted in the arrest of several of Trump's closest advisors is somehow a jubilant victory for their man. That the investigation was needed and has given results is proven beyond doubt. Trump set out to drain the swamp. Turns out his own set of staff was muddy indeed...
  • What is certain is that everyone who's paying attention knows that a several thousand page report was "read" over 2 days and summarized in a 4 page letter by an "Attorney General" who was chosen for the job specifically because he had already declared his opposition to the investigation in question. The only thing that should delight everyone no matter where they stand politically is for the full report (with minimal redactions for national security purposes) to be made public. Hey, even Trump himself has said he's got no problems with that. Whaddaya say, Mitch? Mitch??? https://people.com/politics/mitch-mcconnell-blocks-resolution-to-release-mueller-report/
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2019 Posts: 16,202
    Let's play this: let's assume that the Mueller report clears him of 'collusion'... let's assume Russia aided him on their own just because they liked the guy. Let's assume Trump lifted sanctions not because he's a Russian asset, but because he believes in his heart it's just the right thing to do. Let's assume that Fonzie jumping his motorcycle over that shark tank was completely believable.
    Okay, forget that last one.
    So if we assume all this, that only leaves the deliberate destruction of our society to blame Trump for... granted, that's a small thing... it's not like using private emails on official business or anything... oh wait...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    edited March 2019 Posts: 11,756
    Really we do not have the Mueller report yet at all. Easy to forget with all the screaming, shouting, exaggerating, and gleeful, hateful rhetoric thrown about.

    Barr's summary is his own edited summary, and it was not directed by Mueller. Mueller had no input in Barr writing that. If Mueller did not find enough evidence to prosecute for conspiracy, that does not eliminate a lot of damaging evidence. It just means not enough to prosecute in court for that particular charge. The "Russia" issue is only one thing, and very serious - but I still believe that other factors showing corruption are what will be fully prosecuted against Trump and his children who are part of the Trump Foundation. Those will stick. I do believe that Trump has been corrupt for decades and involved with organized crime - that matters, and it should matter to all Americans, of any political party.

    Of course all of those doing PR for Trump will spin this strongly in their own favor (Kelleyanne and others bleating everywhere; Sarah Sanders putting out, via official White House, false and over-hyped claims, etc.). And extreme left and right will be blatantly lying, pushing despair and chaos and civil war and destruction (yeah, they will). We won't buy into that, but we need to be aware it will escalate.

    Full Mueller report is necessary, without cover up. It's up to American citizens to hold our politicians accountable or we will lose our democracy. It has always been so ... but we are at a genuine crisis point these days, unlike any that have come before.

    So where we are now is: Basically, we need the full report. If we want to have a genuine democracy, we must have it; no question. Mueller was charged with finding certain things AND whatever came up during his investigation. So he wisely handed off the other evidence of corruption/crimes to other organizations in NY, Virginia, and D.C. - and, thankfully, they will continue their cases. (Perhaps one other state, also; cannot remember.)

    People judging Trump by Barr's summary are doing so without nearly enough information from Mueller. Things will settle, and the report must be made public (except for genuine national security concerns; those redacted). Mueller left his report so that Congress would make the decision regarding Trump's actions (and his administration and cohorts), and they need the full Mueller report to do so.

    It will come out, but takes a bit of time. Barr says "weeks" not months, and I hope the House keeps the pressure up without relenting because this is 100% necessary for our democracy.

    Those who support Trump should want the report in full, also - why not? Trump himself is now buoyed so high by Barr that he is even calling to release the report in full (though he has not seen it). For once, his narcissism can be helpful. Yes, get the report released in full and let our Congress and democracy move forward - not stall or cover up. I agree we need that, and I hope all political parties would want the full report given to Congress and American citizens.
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    Let's play this: let's assume that the Mueller report clears him of 'collusion'... let's assume Russia aided him on their own just because they liked the guy. Let's assume Trump lifted sanctions not because he's a Russian asset, but because he believes in his heart it's just the right thing to do. Let's assume that Fonzie jumping his motorcycle over that shark tank was completely believable.
    Okay, forget that last one.
    So if we assume all this, that only leaves the deliberate destruction of our society to blame Trump for... granted, that's a small thing... it's not like using private emails on official business or anything... oh wait...

    But that would be like assuming Trump's Secretary of Education isn't actually trying to dismantle the public education system... or that his head of the EPA isn't actually a lobbyist for the coal industry... or that basically, the entire Trump Administration isn't actually a case of setting the foxes to guard the hen house. Why that would be just...

    Tuesday. That would be Tuesday. And unless we the people do something about it, that will be Wednesday and Thursday and Friday and....... *
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    edited March 2019 Posts: 11,756
    deleted (as my previous post says everything I need to say). Common sense means no need for further elaboration from me on that.

    Happy to read other world news here. I'm off re U.S. politics now, until next genuinely big development.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,202
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Let's play this: let's assume that the Mueller report clears him of 'collusion'... let's assume Russia aided him on their own just because they liked the guy. Let's assume Trump lifted sanctions not because he's a Russian asset, but because he believes in his heart it's just the right thing to do. Let's assume that Fonzie jumping his motorcycle over that shark tank was completely believable.
    Okay, forget that last one.
    So if we assume all this, that only leaves the deliberate destruction of our society to blame Trump for... granted, that's a small thing... it's not like using private emails on official business or anything... oh wait...

    But that would be like assuming Trump's Secretary of Education isn't actually trying to dismantle the public education system... or that his head of the EPA isn't actually a lobbyist for the coal industry... or that basically, the entire Trump Administration isn't actually a case of setting the foxes to guard the hen house. Why that would be just...

    Tuesday. That would be Tuesday. And unless we the people do something about it, that will be Wednesday and Thursday and Friday and....... *

    Maybe they all believe they're actually doing what's best for the American people.
    Maybe that was actually Henry Winkler on the stunt bike...
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Hamburg, near the Atlantic Hotel
    Posts: 5,929
    Yes, and Richard Nixon and George W....I mean Dick Cheney had only the best interests of the common American people in their minds
  • Looking for something genuinely big and genuinely different in US politics? Okay, how about: Trump has decided it's time to go for broke, what with so many people being just plain tired and dispirited re: US politics. So let's play double or nothing: let's repeal the entire Affordable Care Act while the rest of America is talking Muller-Muller-Muller. https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/25/politics/trump-administration-aca/index.html
    The problem with letting yourself take your eyes of the prize is: the Devil never sleeps.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,202
    Let's go for Double Jeopardy where the stakes can really increase!
    Hans Grueber would approve of this tactic.
    Yippie Kai Yea, muddafuk.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    Posts: 11,756
    Yes, I am aware of the GOP going to try to get rid of - with Dept of Justice approval - all of the Affordable Care Act ('Obamacare'.) Millions of people will have their healthcare destroyed. Pre-existing conditions and far more.

    Also Betsy DeVos is planning to go along with Trump and take away all funding for Special Olympics and help for autistic children. Oh and also Trump admin. cutting funds for Puerto Rico. There are plenty of heinous things in the pipeline. Trump and the GOP are trying to do as much damage as possible during this time. That is to be expected. They will overreach, though.

    I could post daily. I have to hope that people are reading plenty of news, variety of sources. And contacting their govt representatives to voice their opinion.
  • Dance on, 4Ever. We all do what we can...but don't forget to dance.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,202
  • "Your friends don't dance & if they don't dance well they're no friends of mine." Truer words were never spoken! Stay safe, everybody...
This discussion has been closed.