Any Non-Fleming Material You Would Like To See Adapted?

13

Comments

  • edited December 2020 Posts: 3,291
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes an F1 race does seem a very Bond-y environment, although possibly hard to mount for a movie. I think Fleming's reasons for the KGB getting involved were a bit sketchy (it was just for a PR victory rather than anything more substantial) and also getting Bond in as a driver wouldn't really be plausible now, so it would need some changes.

    Yes, Bond driving in an F1 Race is very out there and basically impossible. Rumored sabotage in a F1 race with Bond being sent to investigate however is an interesting idea. Lets say it takes place in Monte Carlo and we get some great shots of the F1 cars racing there. I would watch that film ;)

    This nice thing is, adapting Trigger Mortis and the entire race sequence is based on a Fleming idea too. So this would be like another TLD or OP, where a film is based around a Fleming idea/short story.

    And the rest of the novel feels very Fleming too. I'd be all for this novel getting a full adaptation.

    I agree with everyone about adapting the TM novel, but I have three questions: do you think that EON would modernize it after Anthony Horowitz said Bond belongs to the 50s and 60s? Do you think EON would approach him to adapt his novel(s) with a modern day setting, as he’s written screenplays before? And what about Pussy Galore? Would she just be written out or have her name changed?

    It would be adapted to a modern day setting, as all previous Fleming novels were updated when adapted to the screen.

    If you think about the 80's era, this included many Fleming scenes and short stories adapted fairly accurately, regardless of the fact that they were originally written in the 50's and early 60's.

    Likewise, the oldest novel of them all, CR also managed to get a fairly faithful adaptation in 2005, to prove once and for all that Fleming's tales can be adapted to fit any era.

    As for Pussy Galore, I doubt they would use that character's name.

    Does Trigger Mortis need to be adapted though? Not intending to rain on any parades here, but is there anything particularly unique about the book’s plot or characters that would warrant its use as a starting point over simply writing an original script? I’ll have to reread the book someday I guess but my impression upon its release was that much of it from the setting of the European castle to the underground train finale felt pulled out of the fridge and reheated from moments in Gardner’s Bonds. Fleming’s idea of combining Bond and sports racing is an interesting one, though that first faceoff between Tony Stark and Mickey Rourke in Monte Carlo in Iron Man 2 still feels fresh in my mind, however long ago that was. I don’t think there’s much from literary Bond (outside of remaining Fleming), that I’d like to see adapted wholesale. Gardner’s NLF and NDMB could work, but that’s about it.

    If original scripts are anything to go by, I'd say yes. P&W have proven time and time again they are not in Maibaum's league at writing original Bond scripts.

    The 2 strongest films over the past 30 odd years are LTK and CR. Both rely heavily on Fleming scenes and characters.

    The 4 weakest films of the franchise (for me) are the Brosnan ones, and then Craig's other 3 films suffer in large part because of their scripts.

    So I think we need a well thought out written novel as a starting point. Horowitz definitely has a grasp on Fleming, and both his novels also use a Fleming scene as the base for the story. Throw in a few unused scenes from the Fleming novels for good measure too (as Maibaum would have done in the 80's), and you have the makings of a great film.

    Instead, we are objected to crap like Blofeld being Bond's long lost brother. If this is what original material gives us, I'd opt for the novels and unused Fleming any day.

    It's difficult to say for certain which ideas or story elements came from where, but from what I've gleaned in interviews it really doesn't sound like P&W are responsible for some of the more egregious parts of recent films. The foster brother business wasn't theirs, for example. Die Another Day was apparently a far more grounded script originally with Tamahori simply wanting to make the picture bigger and bigger to compete with other action movies. If you look at the core story and character ideas in both The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day, which are likely the best representations we have of P&W's original story output, that's the kind of craftsmanship I would like to see shaping future Bond adventures, personally.

    I did once read that P&W often suggested Fleming moments but it was rejected. I seem to recall them wanting to use the title MAGIC 22 somewhere?

    If this is the case, and P&W deserve bigger credit than I am giving them, then the buck needs to stop firmly above them then. If its Babs outright rejecting any unused Fleming (and opting for what we have been served up instead as being superior) then clearly her executive powers and taste are not what her fathers were. Maybe its time she stepped down...

    Yes, the woman who made Casino Royale clearly has an absolute ban on all Fleming material and doesn't make decisions on a case-by-case basis at all: if it's got his fingers anywhere near it it's out the window, no discussion.
    8-|

    You may not be that far off there, judging by her record. CR was the exception, not the norm during her reign, which gave us gems like DAD, TWINE, TND, QoS and SP.

    I was being sarcastic, sorry that wasn't obvious. DAD is full of Moonraker, QoS has a dreadful title from the pen of you-know-who etc. As soon as they got the rights to the good one they used it, but since then the well is running dry.
    If you haven't enjoyed any Bond films for the last 25 years maybe it's time to stop watching them.

    I was being sarcastic back too, sorry if that wasn't obvious either.... ;)

    Was the brilliant CR made over 25 years ago? Time sure flies when you're having no fun.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2020 Posts: 15,543
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes an F1 race does seem a very Bond-y environment, although possibly hard to mount for a movie. I think Fleming's reasons for the KGB getting involved were a bit sketchy (it was just for a PR victory rather than anything more substantial) and also getting Bond in as a driver wouldn't really be plausible now, so it would need some changes.

    Yes, Bond driving in an F1 Race is very out there and basically impossible. Rumored sabotage in a F1 race with Bond being sent to investigate however is an interesting idea. Lets say it takes place in Monte Carlo and we get some great shots of the F1 cars racing there. I would watch that film ;)

    This nice thing is, adapting Trigger Mortis and the entire race sequence is based on a Fleming idea too. So this would be like another TLD or OP, where a film is based around a Fleming idea/short story.

    And the rest of the novel feels very Fleming too. I'd be all for this novel getting a full adaptation.

    I agree with everyone about adapting the TM novel, but I have three questions: do you think that EON would modernize it after Anthony Horowitz said Bond belongs to the 50s and 60s? Do you think EON would approach him to adapt his novel(s) with a modern day setting, as he’s written screenplays before? And what about Pussy Galore? Would she just be written out or have her name changed?

    It would be adapted to a modern day setting, as all previous Fleming novels were updated when adapted to the screen.

    If you think about the 80's era, this included many Fleming scenes and short stories adapted fairly accurately, regardless of the fact that they were originally written in the 50's and early 60's.

    Likewise, the oldest novel of them all, CR also managed to get a fairly faithful adaptation in 2005, to prove once and for all that Fleming's tales can be adapted to fit any era.

    As for Pussy Galore, I doubt they would use that character's name.

    Does Trigger Mortis need to be adapted though? Not intending to rain on any parades here, but is there anything particularly unique about the book’s plot or characters that would warrant its use as a starting point over simply writing an original script? I’ll have to reread the book someday I guess but my impression upon its release was that much of it from the setting of the European castle to the underground train finale felt pulled out of the fridge and reheated from moments in Gardner’s Bonds. Fleming’s idea of combining Bond and sports racing is an interesting one, though that first faceoff between Tony Stark and Mickey Rourke in Monte Carlo in Iron Man 2 still feels fresh in my mind, however long ago that was. I don’t think there’s much from literary Bond (outside of remaining Fleming), that I’d like to see adapted wholesale. Gardner’s NLF and NDMB could work, but that’s about it.

    If original scripts are anything to go by, I'd say yes. P&W have proven time and time again they are not in Maibaum's league at writing original Bond scripts.

    The 2 strongest films over the past 30 odd years are LTK and CR. Both rely heavily on Fleming scenes and characters.

    The 4 weakest films of the franchise (for me) are the Brosnan ones, and then Craig's other 3 films suffer in large part because of their scripts.

    So I think we need a well thought out written novel as a starting point. Horowitz definitely has a grasp on Fleming, and both his novels also use a Fleming scene as the base for the story. Throw in a few unused scenes from the Fleming novels for good measure too (as Maibaum would have done in the 80's), and you have the makings of a great film.

    Instead, we are objected to crap like Blofeld being Bond's long lost brother. If this is what original material gives us, I'd opt for the novels and unused Fleming any day.

    It's difficult to say for certain which ideas or story elements came from where, but from what I've gleaned in interviews it really doesn't sound like P&W are responsible for some of the more egregious parts of recent films. The foster brother business wasn't theirs, for example. Die Another Day was apparently a far more grounded script originally with Tamahori simply wanting to make the picture bigger and bigger to compete with other action movies. If you look at the core story and character ideas in both The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day, which are likely the best representations we have of P&W's original story output, that's the kind of craftsmanship I would like to see shaping future Bond adventures, personally.

    I did once read that P&W often suggested Fleming moments but it was rejected. I seem to recall them wanting to use the title MAGIC 22 somewhere?

    If this is the case, and P&W deserve bigger credit than I am giving them, then the buck needs to stop firmly above them then. If its Babs outright rejecting any unused Fleming (and opting for what we have been served up instead as being superior) then clearly her executive powers and taste are not what her fathers were. Maybe its time she stepped down...

    Yes, the woman who made Casino Royale clearly has an absolute ban on all Fleming material and doesn't make decisions on a case-by-case basis at all: if it's got his fingers anywhere near it it's out the window, no discussion.
    8-|

    You may not be that far off there, judging by her record. CR was the exception, not the norm during her reign, which gave us gems like DAD, TWINE, TND, QoS and SP.

    I was being sarcastic, sorry that wasn't obvious. DAD is full of Moonraker, QoS has a dreadful title from the pen of you-know-who etc. As soon as they got the rights to the good one they used it, but since then the well is running dry.
    If you haven't enjoyed any Bond films for the last 25 years maybe it's time to stop watching them.

    I was being sarcastic back too, sorry if that wasn't obvious either.... ;)

    Oh right; it really wasn't obvious. So you don't think CR was the exception? I'm lost. I get that the 'gems' was meant sarcastically, I thought it was pretty clear that I understood from my reply.
    Was the brilliant CR made over 25 years ago? Time sure flies when you're having no fun.

    Now you do like it...? Okay, change that to 'you've only enjoyed one film in the last 25 years'. If you're not having fun, just give up on it and do something else. It's supposed to be fun: I've enjoyed pretty much all of them. If you think being miserable makes you the winner in some way, well go for it, you won.
  • Posts: 3,291
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes an F1 race does seem a very Bond-y environment, although possibly hard to mount for a movie. I think Fleming's reasons for the KGB getting involved were a bit sketchy (it was just for a PR victory rather than anything more substantial) and also getting Bond in as a driver wouldn't really be plausible now, so it would need some changes.

    Yes, Bond driving in an F1 Race is very out there and basically impossible. Rumored sabotage in a F1 race with Bond being sent to investigate however is an interesting idea. Lets say it takes place in Monte Carlo and we get some great shots of the F1 cars racing there. I would watch that film ;)

    This nice thing is, adapting Trigger Mortis and the entire race sequence is based on a Fleming idea too. So this would be like another TLD or OP, where a film is based around a Fleming idea/short story.

    And the rest of the novel feels very Fleming too. I'd be all for this novel getting a full adaptation.

    I agree with everyone about adapting the TM novel, but I have three questions: do you think that EON would modernize it after Anthony Horowitz said Bond belongs to the 50s and 60s? Do you think EON would approach him to adapt his novel(s) with a modern day setting, as he’s written screenplays before? And what about Pussy Galore? Would she just be written out or have her name changed?

    It would be adapted to a modern day setting, as all previous Fleming novels were updated when adapted to the screen.

    If you think about the 80's era, this included many Fleming scenes and short stories adapted fairly accurately, regardless of the fact that they were originally written in the 50's and early 60's.

    Likewise, the oldest novel of them all, CR also managed to get a fairly faithful adaptation in 2005, to prove once and for all that Fleming's tales can be adapted to fit any era.

    As for Pussy Galore, I doubt they would use that character's name.

    Does Trigger Mortis need to be adapted though? Not intending to rain on any parades here, but is there anything particularly unique about the book’s plot or characters that would warrant its use as a starting point over simply writing an original script? I’ll have to reread the book someday I guess but my impression upon its release was that much of it from the setting of the European castle to the underground train finale felt pulled out of the fridge and reheated from moments in Gardner’s Bonds. Fleming’s idea of combining Bond and sports racing is an interesting one, though that first faceoff between Tony Stark and Mickey Rourke in Monte Carlo in Iron Man 2 still feels fresh in my mind, however long ago that was. I don’t think there’s much from literary Bond (outside of remaining Fleming), that I’d like to see adapted wholesale. Gardner’s NLF and NDMB could work, but that’s about it.

    If original scripts are anything to go by, I'd say yes. P&W have proven time and time again they are not in Maibaum's league at writing original Bond scripts.

    The 2 strongest films over the past 30 odd years are LTK and CR. Both rely heavily on Fleming scenes and characters.

    The 4 weakest films of the franchise (for me) are the Brosnan ones, and then Craig's other 3 films suffer in large part because of their scripts.

    So I think we need a well thought out written novel as a starting point. Horowitz definitely has a grasp on Fleming, and both his novels also use a Fleming scene as the base for the story. Throw in a few unused scenes from the Fleming novels for good measure too (as Maibaum would have done in the 80's), and you have the makings of a great film.

    Instead, we are objected to crap like Blofeld being Bond's long lost brother. If this is what original material gives us, I'd opt for the novels and unused Fleming any day.

    It's difficult to say for certain which ideas or story elements came from where, but from what I've gleaned in interviews it really doesn't sound like P&W are responsible for some of the more egregious parts of recent films. The foster brother business wasn't theirs, for example. Die Another Day was apparently a far more grounded script originally with Tamahori simply wanting to make the picture bigger and bigger to compete with other action movies. If you look at the core story and character ideas in both The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day, which are likely the best representations we have of P&W's original story output, that's the kind of craftsmanship I would like to see shaping future Bond adventures, personally.

    I did once read that P&W often suggested Fleming moments but it was rejected. I seem to recall them wanting to use the title MAGIC 22 somewhere?

    If this is the case, and P&W deserve bigger credit than I am giving them, then the buck needs to stop firmly above them then. If its Babs outright rejecting any unused Fleming (and opting for what we have been served up instead as being superior) then clearly her executive powers and taste are not what her fathers were. Maybe its time she stepped down...

    Yes, the woman who made Casino Royale clearly has an absolute ban on all Fleming material and doesn't make decisions on a case-by-case basis at all: if it's got his fingers anywhere near it it's out the window, no discussion.
    8-|

    You may not be that far off there, judging by her record. CR was the exception, not the norm during her reign, which gave us gems like DAD, TWINE, TND, QoS and SP.

    I was being sarcastic, sorry that wasn't obvious. DAD is full of Moonraker, QoS has a dreadful title from the pen of you-know-who etc. As soon as they got the rights to the good one they used it, but since then the well is running dry.
    If you haven't enjoyed any Bond films for the last 25 years maybe it's time to stop watching them.

    I was being sarcastic back too, sorry if that wasn't obvious either.... ;)

    Oh right; it really wasn't obvious. So you don't think CR was the exception? I'm lost. I get that the 'gems' was meant sarcastically, I thought it was pretty clear that I understood from my reply.
    Was the brilliant CR made over 25 years ago? Time sure flies when you're having no fun.

    Now you do like it...? Okay, change that to 'you've only enjoyed one film in the last 25 years'. If you're not having fun, just give up on it and do something else. It's supposed to be fun: I've enjoyed pretty much all of them. If you think being miserable makes you the winner in some way, well go for it, you won.

    I thought it was fairly clear that I was stating I liked CR. That part I wasn't being sarcastic about, but I think you deducted that anyway, despite your claimed confusion. You know me by now that I'm a Fleming fan, and I think you also know I liked CR too before this conversation (but I could be wrong).

    I loved CR on first viewing. It made it straight into my top 5, and hasn't shifted. I live in hope that one day I'll see another Bond film that I'll enjoy just as much, which is why I'm still hanging in there.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,543
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes an F1 race does seem a very Bond-y environment, although possibly hard to mount for a movie. I think Fleming's reasons for the KGB getting involved were a bit sketchy (it was just for a PR victory rather than anything more substantial) and also getting Bond in as a driver wouldn't really be plausible now, so it would need some changes.

    Yes, Bond driving in an F1 Race is very out there and basically impossible. Rumored sabotage in a F1 race with Bond being sent to investigate however is an interesting idea. Lets say it takes place in Monte Carlo and we get some great shots of the F1 cars racing there. I would watch that film ;)

    This nice thing is, adapting Trigger Mortis and the entire race sequence is based on a Fleming idea too. So this would be like another TLD or OP, where a film is based around a Fleming idea/short story.

    And the rest of the novel feels very Fleming too. I'd be all for this novel getting a full adaptation.

    I agree with everyone about adapting the TM novel, but I have three questions: do you think that EON would modernize it after Anthony Horowitz said Bond belongs to the 50s and 60s? Do you think EON would approach him to adapt his novel(s) with a modern day setting, as he’s written screenplays before? And what about Pussy Galore? Would she just be written out or have her name changed?

    It would be adapted to a modern day setting, as all previous Fleming novels were updated when adapted to the screen.

    If you think about the 80's era, this included many Fleming scenes and short stories adapted fairly accurately, regardless of the fact that they were originally written in the 50's and early 60's.

    Likewise, the oldest novel of them all, CR also managed to get a fairly faithful adaptation in 2005, to prove once and for all that Fleming's tales can be adapted to fit any era.

    As for Pussy Galore, I doubt they would use that character's name.

    Does Trigger Mortis need to be adapted though? Not intending to rain on any parades here, but is there anything particularly unique about the book’s plot or characters that would warrant its use as a starting point over simply writing an original script? I’ll have to reread the book someday I guess but my impression upon its release was that much of it from the setting of the European castle to the underground train finale felt pulled out of the fridge and reheated from moments in Gardner’s Bonds. Fleming’s idea of combining Bond and sports racing is an interesting one, though that first faceoff between Tony Stark and Mickey Rourke in Monte Carlo in Iron Man 2 still feels fresh in my mind, however long ago that was. I don’t think there’s much from literary Bond (outside of remaining Fleming), that I’d like to see adapted wholesale. Gardner’s NLF and NDMB could work, but that’s about it.

    If original scripts are anything to go by, I'd say yes. P&W have proven time and time again they are not in Maibaum's league at writing original Bond scripts.

    The 2 strongest films over the past 30 odd years are LTK and CR. Both rely heavily on Fleming scenes and characters.

    The 4 weakest films of the franchise (for me) are the Brosnan ones, and then Craig's other 3 films suffer in large part because of their scripts.

    So I think we need a well thought out written novel as a starting point. Horowitz definitely has a grasp on Fleming, and both his novels also use a Fleming scene as the base for the story. Throw in a few unused scenes from the Fleming novels for good measure too (as Maibaum would have done in the 80's), and you have the makings of a great film.

    Instead, we are objected to crap like Blofeld being Bond's long lost brother. If this is what original material gives us, I'd opt for the novels and unused Fleming any day.

    It's difficult to say for certain which ideas or story elements came from where, but from what I've gleaned in interviews it really doesn't sound like P&W are responsible for some of the more egregious parts of recent films. The foster brother business wasn't theirs, for example. Die Another Day was apparently a far more grounded script originally with Tamahori simply wanting to make the picture bigger and bigger to compete with other action movies. If you look at the core story and character ideas in both The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day, which are likely the best representations we have of P&W's original story output, that's the kind of craftsmanship I would like to see shaping future Bond adventures, personally.

    I did once read that P&W often suggested Fleming moments but it was rejected. I seem to recall them wanting to use the title MAGIC 22 somewhere?

    If this is the case, and P&W deserve bigger credit than I am giving them, then the buck needs to stop firmly above them then. If its Babs outright rejecting any unused Fleming (and opting for what we have been served up instead as being superior) then clearly her executive powers and taste are not what her fathers were. Maybe its time she stepped down...

    Yes, the woman who made Casino Royale clearly has an absolute ban on all Fleming material and doesn't make decisions on a case-by-case basis at all: if it's got his fingers anywhere near it it's out the window, no discussion.
    8-|

    You may not be that far off there, judging by her record. CR was the exception, not the norm during her reign, which gave us gems like DAD, TWINE, TND, QoS and SP.

    I was being sarcastic, sorry that wasn't obvious. DAD is full of Moonraker, QoS has a dreadful title from the pen of you-know-who etc. As soon as they got the rights to the good one they used it, but since then the well is running dry.
    If you haven't enjoyed any Bond films for the last 25 years maybe it's time to stop watching them.

    I was being sarcastic back too, sorry if that wasn't obvious either.... ;)

    Oh right; it really wasn't obvious. So you don't think CR was the exception? I'm lost. I get that the 'gems' was meant sarcastically, I thought it was pretty clear that I understood from my reply.
    Was the brilliant CR made over 25 years ago? Time sure flies when you're having no fun.

    Now you do like it...? Okay, change that to 'you've only enjoyed one film in the last 25 years'. If you're not having fun, just give up on it and do something else. It's supposed to be fun: I've enjoyed pretty much all of them. If you think being miserable makes you the winner in some way, well go for it, you won.

    I thought it was fairly clear that I was stating I liked CR. That part I wasn't being sarcastic about, but I think you deducted that anyway, despite your claimed confusion.

    So it was only the 'gems' bit you being sarcastic about, as I made clear I understood when I said you hadn't 'enjoyed any for 25 years'. So when you said you were being sarcastic back and said you thought I hadn't understood, you actually knew full well that I understood but were just repeating what I said back to me to try and score a point, even though it didn't make any sense at all. What a pointless and tiresome thing to do.
    I loved CR on first viewing. It made it straight into my top 5, and hasn't shifted. I live in hope that one day I'll see another Bond film that I'll enjoy just as much, which is why I'm still hanging in there.

    If all you'll accept is Fleming then there's not much point. Just read the old books and be happy with them.
  • Posts: 3,291
    mtm wrote: »
    So it was only the 'gems' bit you being sarcastic about, as I made clear I understood when I said you hadn't 'enjoyed any for 25 years'. So when you said you were being sarcastic back and said you thought I hadn't understood, you actually knew full well that I understood but were just repeating what I said back to me to try and score a point, even though it didn't make any sense at all. What a pointless and tiresome thing to do.
    I can't even respond back to this as I don't know what you are talking about anymore. I'm starting to feel like De Niro with Charles Grodin in Midnight Run. :-j

    mtm wrote: »
    If all you'll accept is Fleming then there's not much point. Just read the old books and be happy with them.

    Maybe you are right. :(

  • Posts: 113
    I always feel like the uber nerd whenever I bring up any continuation novels because...sadly so few have ever read any!!!

    Some things from Gardner have been touched upon, and the Colonel Sun bit was pulled for SPECTRE which means I suppose it's open season now for actually adapting ideas.

    The early Gardners would work if you wanted to mine ideas. Licence Renewed is a template for a Bond film which you could mix with other things.


    Ultimately though there is one book that is tailor made for a film adaptation. It would be expensive but it's literally already a film in book form. Benson's High Time To Kill. Literally go shoot the book and you're done. The others are still good and there's plenty of great scenes and bits to pull from. HTTK though is the one I've felt was perfect for adapting from the moment I first read it. When he later revealed his was directed to write novels with the films in mind by Glidrose I found myself thinking:"Well of course!"
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,543
    Isn't that the one where Bond faces off against his old school bully? Eek! :D

    Benson's stuff is, for me, a bit too crude.
  • edited December 2020 Posts: 902
    Speaking of Benson, there's one element that, while it's hard to imagine in the current Bond status quo, would be welcome, in my mind: at the start of The Facts of Death, Bond attends with his current superior a dinner party held by a former M (here Sir Messery). Obviously, if this could easily happened during the Brosnan era with Robert Brown reprising his role for a short cameo, the death of Dench's Olivia Mansfield character and the probable reboot of the series after Craig's departure makes such a scene difficult to conceive in the short term.

    Still, such a moment could be great, especially if used in the same way as by Benson (in his novel a murder is committed during the party and forces Bond to investigate). It could also be a smart way to give Bond's mission a personal dimension, because I doubt that this concept will disappear anytime soon, without it being too personal neither.
  • Posts: 113
    mtm wrote: »
    Isn't that the one where Bond faces off against his old school bully? Eek! :D

    Benson's stuff is, for me, a bit too crude.

    Yes it's Roland Marquis in the book. There's plenty of great ideas in his tenure to mine from and some good plot structures. I still wonder what he could come up with now in a Bond novel without having to make them like the films.

    I liked his referencing of other Fleming characters to an extent but it went overboard so much you started to question why is this happening?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited December 2020 Posts: 6,109
    It is interesting that Eon shies away from the continuation novels. It's almost as if they see them as damaged goods (and don't want to pay for the rights). (Except for Amis of course, but he is in different literary class from the others...)
  • Posts: 5,900
    Well, they used a lot of material from the first four Gardner books in AVTAK and TLD, except for the plots themselves, so...
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2020 Posts: 17,989
    Gerard wrote: »
    Well, they used a lot of material from the first four Gardner books in AVTAK and TLD, except for the plots themselves, so...

    That's the smart way to do it I suppose, if you're going to. It certainly costs Eon less money to unofficially mine the Gardner novels for good ideas. They could always say that they were just generic thriller ideas they coincidentally drew from the ether if anyone ever came calling. I'm sure they knew that was a very unlikely event anyway and so it proved. It doesn't do the Gardner Estate's finances any good, mind, but for Eon that is (sadly) beside the point. There should really be enough to go around for everyone, but such is the nature of the beast that is capitalism(!)
  • Posts: 113
    The more one thinks about it the more ideas and elements you can connect from Gardner's books to the films.
  • Posts: 2,904
    But that's because EON and Gardner were doing the same thing: writing pastiches inspired by past Bond books and films. So naturally they are approaching Bondian-sounding subjects in very similar ways. I would not be surprised if the folks at EON were mostly ignorant of Gardner's books.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2020 Posts: 17,989
    Revelator wrote: »
    But that's because EON and Gardner were doing the same thing: writing pastiches inspired by past Bond books and films. So naturally they are approaching Bondian-sounding subjects in very similar ways. I would not be surprised if the folks at EON were mostly ignorant of Gardner's books.

    That's no doubt partly the case (see the "coincidentally drawing generic thriller ideas from the ether" point in my post above). However, I believe that Bond co-producer (and one-time co-scriptwriter) Michael G. Wilson is also on public record as saying that they were aware of the Gardner continuation novels and read them as they came out, seemingly almost out of courtesy to Glidrose. I suppose they were also read on the off-chance that they might contain something of value that could be adapted in a Bond film or to at least spark a new original idea.

    Wilson then went on to say that Eon had dismissed the idea of adapting any of the Gardner novels as he didn't think them right for the Bond films. Wilson pointed out the fact that Bond had visited Disneyland and enjoyed the experience in one of the novels (Never Send Flowers, 1993) as an idea worthy of particular censure.

    Wilson may have also referred to the fact that the climax to that particular novel was set at the then new EuroDisney resort outside Paris. Wilson famously said this at a 1995 conference (possibly in New York if memory serves correctly) that he appeared at. I can't recall the exact details now. It's little talked about as interest in the continuation novels is generally much lower than many other Bondian topics, for obvious reasons. It's considered more of a niche topic. However, Wilson's disparaging remarks are just one famous example of where the powers that be at Eon poured cold water on the suggestion that the Gardner novels could ever be adapted as Bond films.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited December 2020 Posts: 4,484
    What if there do that Facts of Death thing with bring Colin Salmon back as Charles and Samantha Bond as Moneypenny and the party celebrate 15 years of there are married.

    The two infite there Daughter Eve and Bond to Australia for the party where also another Daughter from Samantha Bond moneypenny she get with Tanner Sr. (Half sister of Tanner jr introduced in QOS.). In earlier idea i come up with Charles and Samantha Bond Moneypenny moved to, Australia when Tanner Sr was murderd by Falco. After Tanner Sr funeral where Dench M murder Falco. It turn aut that Dario was Falco son, he contuned the drugs thing. Dario be partly Romania and his Romanian mom kild her self from life.

    Eve be Charles and Samantha Bond daughter i only come up because some people whant explanation that Moneypenny is black and i dislike way she is introduced in Skyfall. Same reasen i think about another daughter.

    Romania / Falco thing and death of Kitchen his Tanner was thing for Brosnan 5th movie. Later i even think about other ideas to bring back Charles and idea killing of Dench M (she kild her self after first dispearing for whyle. It turn out she can't lived any more with idea she half German and her mothers id stil hunting her. ) and making Charles the New M, Dench husband turn out be new Q played by Jared Harris. Then that Moneypenny died in Australia. For Dench M name and her husband i was inspyred by Fleming element of QOS short story and give it twist. There married from QOS short story be start of Bond 25 as flashback. Master in the line ''Who be the Master in this game'' was also reference to that orginal male chacter in the novel. Whyle Jared Harris Q name are respect for Desmond Q who famale in novel. ''Pink cloud is another way to die'' another line i created reference to there deadly relation, Bond and Vesper and reference to QOS movie title song.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    M_Balje wrote: »
    What if there do that Facts of Death thing with bring Colin Salmon back as Charles and Samantha Bond as Moneypenny and the party celebrate 15 years of there are married.

    The two infite there Daughter Eve and Bond to Australia for the party where also another Daughter from Samantha Bond moneypenny she get with Tanner Sr. (Half sister of Tanner jr introduced in QOS.). In earlier idea i come up with Charles and Samantha Bond Moneypenny moved to, Australia when Tanner Sr was murderd by Falco. After Tanner Sr funeral where Dench M murder Falco. It turn aut that Dario was Falco son, he contuned the drugs thing. Dario be partly Romania and his Romanian mom kild her self from life.

    Eve be Charles and Samantha Bond daughter i only come up because some people whant explanation that Moneypenny is black and i dislike way she is introduced in Skyfall. Same reasen i think about another daughter.

    Romania / Falco thing and death of Kitchen his Tanner was thing for Brosnan 5th movie. Later i even think about other ideas to bring back Charles and idea killing of Dench M (she kild her self after first dispearing for whyle. It turn out she can't lived any more with idea she half German and her mothers id stil hunting her. ) and making Charles the New M, Dench husband turn out be new Q played by Jared Harris. Then that Moneypenny died in Australia. For Dench M name and her husband i was inspyred by Fleming element of QOS short story and give it twist. There married from QOS short story be start of Bond 25 as flashback. Master in the line ''Who be the Master in this game'' was also reference to that orginal male chacter in the novel. Whyle Jared Harris Q name are respect for Desmond Q who famale in novel. ''Pink cloud is another way to die'' another line i created reference to there deadly relation, Bond and Vesper and reference to QOS movie title song.

    This needs to happen.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Currently re-reading the comic Kill Chain and there are some story ideas and specific scenes, that I really like in there.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,989
    Currently re-reading the comic Kill Chain and there are some story ideas and specific scenes, that I really like in there.

    That's the one with a neo-Nazi group in it, isn't it? I bought that one as I was intrigued by the decision to use neo-Nazis as villains again, something (I think) not seen since John Gardner's Icebreaker (1983) and SeaFire (1994). Not got a chance to read it as yet but I should really dig it out and give it a read. It's the only one of the newer Bond comics that I've bought thus far as I was intrigued to see how the villains were handled.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,242
    I've only flipped through Kill Chain thus far, but it looked to be the most bloody, violent of the first wave of Dynamite comics.
  • BondLLCLawyerBondLLCLawyer Here and there mate- owning an LLC takes you there and back.
    Posts: 10
    I believe there is a place for James Bond Jr to be rebooted, if done well. Throw out the entire cartoon, make a new property that audiences will respond to. Its clear that we need a new direction in the series, for a breath of fresh air. This way will please everyone - two concurrent Bond franchises. When you see how many Marvel, or Star Wars movies are planned to come out, what is EONs excuse for their lack of output? Actually, all theyve given are excuses! And my well of tears has run dry.
  • Posts: 15,948
    I believe there is a place for James Bond Jr to be rebooted, if done well. Throw out the entire cartoon, make a new property that audiences will respond to. Its clear that we need a new direction in the series, for a breath of fresh air. This way will please everyone - two concurrent Bond franchises. When you see how many Marvel, or Star Wars movies are planned to come out, what is EONs excuse for their lack of output? Actually, all theyve given are excuses! And my well of tears has run dry.

    Yes, indeed. It's kind of a sad era we're in as far as Bond is concerned. Sure both CR and SF were well received and are among the tops of many fan's rankings, but that was YEARS ago. Years in which time has passed and we've only a small handful of new Bond content to keep us going.
    The Craig era is like an expired gallon of milk sitting in the fridge, mostly full because only a few glasses have been consumed.
    I actually wouldn't mind seeing adaptations of the YOUNG BOND novels providing they kept the WWII setting. Otherwise I'd prefer to see Bond in his prime for the duration of the next actor's era (if there is one).
  • QBranch wrote: »
    I've only flipped through Kill Chain thus far, but it looked to be the most bloody, violent of the first wave of Dynamite comics.

    That was one thing that struck me when reading the graphic novels: the amplified violence, the bursts of blood and matter that went flying with each gunshot. That really felt, well, “off-brand” for Bond for me. Even in the books, which are all considerably more violent than the films, it never came across as that visceral or at least not that prevalent. But I figured that was just the common style of graphic novels these days. Give the people what they want—or what they expect—and all that. I’ve only read a couple of the comics though, so maybe they aren’t all that bloody.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2021 Posts: 6,109
    M_Balje wrote: »
    What if there do that Facts of Death thing with bring Colin Salmon back as Charles and Samantha Bond as Moneypenny and the party celebrate 15 years of there are married.

    The two infite there Daughter Eve and Bond to Australia for the party where also another Daughter from Samantha Bond moneypenny she get with Tanner Sr. (Half sister of Tanner jr introduced in QOS.). In earlier idea i come up with Charles and Samantha Bond Moneypenny moved to, Australia when Tanner Sr was murderd by Falco. After Tanner Sr funeral where Dench M murder Falco. It turn aut that Dario was Falco son, he contuned the drugs thing. Dario be partly Romania and his Romanian mom kild her self from life.

    Eve be Charles and Samantha Bond daughter i only come up because some people whant explanation that Moneypenny is black and i dislike way she is introduced in Skyfall. Same reasen i think about another daughter.

    Romania / Falco thing and death of Kitchen his Tanner was thing for Brosnan 5th movie. Later i even think about other ideas to bring back Charles and idea killing of Dench M (she kild her self after first dispearing for whyle. It turn out she can't lived any more with idea she half German and her mothers id stil hunting her. ) and making Charles the New M, Dench husband turn out be new Q played by Jared Harris. Then that Moneypenny died in Australia. For Dench M name and her husband i was inspyred by Fleming element of QOS short story and give it twist. There married from QOS short story be start of Bond 25 as flashback. Master in the line ''Who be the Master in this game'' was also reference to that orginal male chacter in the novel. Whyle Jared Harris Q name are respect for Desmond Q who famale in novel. ''Pink cloud is another way to die'' another line i created reference to there deadly relation, Bond and Vesper and reference to QOS movie title song.

    This needs to happen.

    +1
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    QBranch wrote: »
    I've only flipped through Kill Chain thus far, but it looked to be the most bloody, violent of the first wave of Dynamite comics.

    That was one thing that struck me when reading the graphic novels: the amplified violence, the bursts of blood and matter that went flying with each gunshot. That really felt, well, “off-brand” for Bond for me. Even in the books, which are all considerably more violent than the films, it never came across as that visceral or at least not that prevalent. But I figured that was just the common style of graphic novels these days. Give the people what they want—or what they expect—and all that. I’ve only read a couple of the comics though, so maybe they aren’t all that bloody.

    You are both not wrong. The comics and especially Kill Chain are quite violent. They are still a bit off from what comics can be at their most visceral (although of course there are modern comics that aren't bloody at all). I guess it's Dynamite's house style and the template that Warren Ellis set in VARGR when they started the line.
    But that is something that I believe would go out of the window in an adaption. Comics that stick to 20-pages per issue at 6 issues per arc have a hard time creating great cinematic action pieces anyway. I would assume a director and their stunt coordinator would go into it completely fresh, apart from the story necessities in the script. And here, Kill Chain has some interesting set-ups, like a shootout inside an auction house's storage room leading into a chase with a van full of artifacts, a boat/car chase in Rotterdam or Bond walking into a neo-nazi/Rocker bar in Germany and beating the crap out of a handful of them.
    However, that brings me to the problem with Kill Chain: There is just too much in there that we've already seen elsewhere:
    The basic idea of a shadow organisation having infiltrated the world's security apparatus and turned and replaced agents who were presumed dead is just straight from MI:Rogue Nation.
    The surrounding plot about NATO and Five Eyes is very interesting in my opinion and goes at it from an exactly opposite direction, but we just had a lot of that in SP.
    The bar fight, while cool and played non-comedically here, is very similar to that in Kingsman.
    So maybe it isn't really usable overall. However, there is one throw-away line, that I think would make a good set-up for a Bond movie and feels very old-school Bond movie:
    It is mentioned, that the way the villains finance their network and launder the money is that apparently they found a rumoured Nazi "treasure train" (which is a thing some people believe existed, although there is no evidence) and now sell these pieces through an auction house. This brings in Bond and of course a very good-looking french antiquities expert who turns out to be a DGSE agent. Espionage ensues.
  • However, there is one throw-away line, that I think would make a good set-up for a Bond movie and feels very old-school Bond movie:
    It is mentioned, that the way the villains finance their network and launder the money is that apparently they found a rumoured Nazi "treasure train" (which is a thing some people believe existed, although there is no evidence) and now sell these pieces through an auction house. This brings in Bond and of course a very good-looking french antiquities expert who turns out to be a DGSE agent. Espionage ensues.

    This premise could indeed be a great basis for a future installment. As much as I like Kill Chain a lot, I think a direct adaptation of this storyline would be of little relevance, unlike those elements you mention, which, structured in this way, can create a new story, both classic and distinct from what the series offered before.
  • Posts: 1,581
    With regard to using Gardner, Benson, etc. material, wasn't there already an instance of the film producers using material from either a Gardner or Benson book ?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,242
    A bit of Gardner's Licence Renewed went into AVTAK, with the villain cheating at horse racing, and nuclear plot by a terrorist for TWINE.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2021 Posts: 17,989
    There was also the fight in the cargo hold of the plane in The Living Daylights (1987) being taken from Gardner's Licence Renewed (1981). Both Role of Honour (1984) and A View to A Kill (1985) feature airship climaxes but I suppose that could be coincidental as a thriller idea, though observe the closeness in time of release of both novel and film. There are several other smaller examples of film lifts from the Gardner novels in a famous article by John Cox of The Book Bond blog.
  • Dragonpol wrote: »
    There was also the fight in the cargo hold of the plane in The Living Daylights (1987) being taken from Gardner's Licence Renewed (1981). Both Role of Honour (1984) and A View to A Kill (1985) feature airship climaxes but I suppose that could be coincidental as a thriller idea, though observe the closeness in time of release of both novel and film. There are several other smaller examples of film lifts from the Gardner novels in a famous article by John Cox of The Book Bond blog.

    You also have the danger of being intentionally trapped inside a crashing elevator in both A View to a Kill and For Special Services. As you say, a number of these similarities could be coincidental, but once you begin to add them up and compare the proximity in timing, they start to read more like inspiration than coincidence.
Sign In or Register to comment.