Is Skyfall a film in favour of Brexit Britain?

24

Comments

  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    To my mind the greatest tragedy is the thought that patriotism - pride in one's country and loyalty to the same - is somehow now a dirty word.

    Bond couldn't function if he didn't possess both in more than the usual measures.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    OHMSS, Plucky Brit Bond. Travels to Europe to break up a corrupt organisation. In doing so
    he succeeds but at a great personal cost.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited January 2017 Posts: 5,131
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Tbh can anyone mention a film where Bond himself is NOT patriotic ??

    He has been called "Her Majesty's loyal terrier" among other things !

    Yep.....and besides the British are superior anyhow in class and historical terms ;)
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Although I do think the PTS to skyfall, has a strong safety message about
    train travel.

    Brilliant.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    If anything SP is far more "pro Brexit" movie, the villain wishing to supplant democratic institutions by creating a supra national power.

    By the way how come Raoul Silva, with his Hispanic (or Portuguese?) background be a former MI6 agent?

    He's not former MI6. He worked for M in HK.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    If anything SP is far more "pro Brexit" movie, the villain wishing to supplant democratic institutions by creating a supra national power.

    By the way how come Raoul Silva, with his Hispanic (or Portuguese?) background be a former MI6 agent?

    He's not former MI6. He worked for M in HK.

    It is my understanding that an agent is someone recruited by MI6 (or any other service) to work on their behalf but is not a member of that Service. The name for MI6 employees engaged in undercover work abroad is 'Field Officer' while those who don't are known as 'Intelligence Officers'. Agent and Officer often get mixed up in fiction.

    It's explained in part in the link to the official MI6 page here:

    https://www.sis.gov.uk/intelligence-officers.html

    Scroll down to 'Join Us'.

    So Bond is a 'Field Officer' not an agent while Silva would indeed have been an agent.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I don't know if Bond (as opposed to Babs and Craig) is a Leave voter, but I agree with the OP otherwise.

    SF is certainly a film about a proud Britain (the bulldog, flags, Tennyson, set in London). One that is not afraid of striking out on its own (demonstrated by the lonely trip to Scotland, Bond's loneliness, M's loneliness). One that's intensely patriotic, independent and deeply loyal (as evidenced by Bond's return to help MI6, and the Scooby gang's efforts to save the day). One that respects the past while looking optimistically towards the future and new beginnings (most notable at the end).

    It's no surprise that it's the highest grossing non-3D film in the UK.

    So yes, I think it more favours a Brexit Britain than an EU one.
  • Posts: 4,599
    spot on as usual :-)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    I hate to be that guy, but here's my question.

    Say the Scottish follow the Brexit example and vote for total independence, then James Bond is technically a foreigner too. Are they simply going to ignore the fact and keep this foreigner as the symbol of the British intelligence community? :)

    I'd love to quote the Chinese:
    "Protectionism is like locking yourself up in a dark room. You may keep rain and wind out, but also oxygen and light."
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @DarthDimi, if Scotland votes for independence, there are several ways the resulting system could operate. Scotland could end up being a crown dependency like Isle of Man for instance (which is currently not in the EU) but only this time it would work the other way.

    I would assume that Bond, since he is a London resident when not on assignment, would be a naturalized citizen of the remaining UK. So he would only be a foreigner by birth. It's not a problem really. I thought that was only written in for Connery anyway.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    If Scotland leave, it's going to harm the UK economy and there will be many job losses resulting in British Companies not wanting to international. Agree with bondjames above though.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,325
    bondjames wrote: »
    @DarthDimi, if Scotland votes for independence, there are several ways the resulting system could operate. Scotland could end up being a crown dependency like Isle of Man for instance (which is currently not in the EU) but only this time it would work the other way.

    I would assume that Bond, since he is a London resident when not on assignment, would be a naturalized citizen of the remaining UK. So he would only be a foreigner by birth. It's not a problem really. I thought that was only written in for Connery anyway.

    It wasn't written in for Connery, Fleming gave Bond Scottish ancestry as he himself had Scottish ancestry. Bond's Swiss mother is after Fleming's Swiss fiancée Monique who his mother wouldn't let him marry - threatening to disinherit him if he did.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    I don't think that fighting against an organisation in Bond films has anything to do with real life politics. Bond has always fought against some evil organisation and SPECTRE is a relict of the 60s.

    Well I guess that most Bond films actually were patriotic by use of GB as a location, the use of British cars, a bit of British humour and the often use of the Union Jack as a symbol. However, all these elements were used with a certain kind of irony, e.g. the gadget laden cars, the funny use of the Union Jack, especially in the RM era. I personally even find that during the Brosnan and Craig era, the Bond films have even lost a bit of Britishness and feel more like international blockbusters.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited January 2017 Posts: 4,416
    Is there a bigger change now we get Bond movie playing in the VS ? Because like as there in UK going to ask extra money to let people work there who are not English. Dollar is cheaper then the English pound.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    M_Balje's translation software needs an update I'm afraid. I have no idea what he's talking about. ;-)
  • Posts: 19,339
    Hahaha I was just thinking the same DD !!
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited January 2017 Posts: 15,423
    I've given up on reading his posts, to tell you the truth. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I suspect most of the general movie audience aren't aware of Bond's Scottish ancestry anyway. It was alluded to in SF, but I don't think most caught onto it. The purists may be upset but the fact is there are a far larger amount of film goers. In fact, I'm reasonably sure many don't know Connery is Scottish.

    Regarding M_Balje's point about a greater chance of a Bond film being made in the US: it's certainly possible, if geopolitical links between the US & UK improve. I'm not sure about the exchange rate impacting it though, because I believe the source currency for Bond films is the US $ (could be wrong though).
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,325
    bondjames wrote: »
    I suspect most of the general movie audience aren't aware of Bond's Scottish ancestry anyway. It was alluded to in SF, but I don't think most caught onto it. The purists may be upset but the fact is there are a far larger amount of film goers. In fact, I'm reasonably sure many don't know Connery is Scottish.

    Regarding M_Balje's point about a greater chance of a Bond film being made in the US: it's certainly possible, if geopolitical links between the US & UK improve. I'm not sure about the exchange rate impacting it though, because I believe the source currency for Bond films is the US $ (could be wrong though).

    Are you sure? Connery has been pretty vocal and public about Scottish independence - I'm sure most of the public know he's Scottish.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I suspect most of the general movie audience aren't aware of Bond's Scottish ancestry anyway. It was alluded to in SF, but I don't think most caught onto it. The purists may be upset but the fact is there are a far larger amount of film goers. In fact, I'm reasonably sure many don't know Connery is Scottish.

    Regarding M_Balje's point about a greater chance of a Bond film being made in the US: it's certainly possible, if geopolitical links between the US & UK improve. I'm not sure about the exchange rate impacting it though, because I believe the source currency for Bond films is the US $ (could be wrong though).

    Are you sure? Connery has been pretty vocal and public about Scottish independence - I'm sure most of the public know he's Scottish.
    I'm quite certain many in the US (especially the younger generation) don't know anything about Connery's views on Scottish independence. I certainly didn't until I joined this site. They also don't know about Brosnan's Irish background or Dalton's Welsh one. As time passes, more and more will watch the films over reading the books, and it will become less important.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I suspect most of the general movie audience aren't aware of Bond's Scottish ancestry anyway. It was alluded to in SF, but I don't think most caught onto it. The purists may be upset but the fact is there are a far larger amount of film goers. In fact, I'm reasonably sure many don't know Connery is Scottish.

    Regarding M_Balje's point about a greater chance of a Bond film being made in the US: it's certainly possible, if geopolitical links between the US & UK improve. I'm not sure about the exchange rate impacting it though, because I believe the source currency for Bond films is the US $ (could be wrong though).

    Are you sure? Connery has been pretty vocal and public about Scottish independence - I'm sure most of the public know he's Scottish.
    Not today's generation, though. Because they don't care about a "has-been" (yes, I argued with a kid about that who gave Sean that nickname).
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,325
    bondjames wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I suspect most of the general movie audience aren't aware of Bond's Scottish ancestry anyway. It was alluded to in SF, but I don't think most caught onto it. The purists may be upset but the fact is there are a far larger amount of film goers. In fact, I'm reasonably sure many don't know Connery is Scottish.

    Regarding M_Balje's point about a greater chance of a Bond film being made in the US: it's certainly possible, if geopolitical links between the US & UK improve. I'm not sure about the exchange rate impacting it though, because I believe the source currency for Bond films is the US $ (could be wrong though).

    Are you sure? Connery has been pretty vocal and public about Scottish independence - I'm sure most of the public know he's Scottish.
    I'm quite certain many in the US (especially the younger generation) don't know anything about Connery's views on Scottish independence. I certainly didn't until I joined this site. They also don't know about Brosnan's Irish background or Dalton's Welsh one. As time passes, more and more will watch the films over reading the books, and it will become less important.

    Well to be fair, most Americans don't know much about the UK. When I was over there I had to explain that Scotland has had its own government since 1999.

    I suspect a number of Americans would have trouble finding Scotland on a world map!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I suspect most of the general movie audience aren't aware of Bond's Scottish ancestry anyway. It was alluded to in SF, but I don't think most caught onto it. The purists may be upset but the fact is there are a far larger amount of film goers. In fact, I'm reasonably sure many don't know Connery is Scottish.

    Regarding M_Balje's point about a greater chance of a Bond film being made in the US: it's certainly possible, if geopolitical links between the US & UK improve. I'm not sure about the exchange rate impacting it though, because I believe the source currency for Bond films is the US $ (could be wrong though).

    Are you sure? Connery has been pretty vocal and public about Scottish independence - I'm sure most of the public know he's Scottish.
    I'm quite certain many in the US (especially the younger generation) don't know anything about Connery's views on Scottish independence. I certainly didn't until I joined this site. They also don't know about Brosnan's Irish background or Dalton's Welsh one. As time passes, more and more will watch the films over reading the books, and it will become less important.

    Well to be fair, most Americans don't know much about the UK. When I was over there I had to explain that Scotland has had its own government since 2000.

    I suspect a number of Americans would have trouble finding Scotland on a world map!
    That's very true. I think the same can be said of the large Asian markets that are increasingly a part of the Bond audience though. For many, the UK is one, and I personally hope it stays that way!
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,400
    bondjames wrote: »
    I don't know if Bond (as opposed to Babs and Craig) is a Leave voter, but I agree with the OP otherwise.

    SF is certainly a film about a proud Britain (the bulldog, flags, Tennyson, set in London). One that is not afraid of striking out on its own (demonstrated by the lonely trip to Scotland, Bond's loneliness, M's loneliness). One that's intensely patriotic, independent and deeply loyal (as evidenced by Bond's return to help MI6, and the Scooby gang's efforts to save the day). One that respects the past while looking optimistically towards the future and new beginnings (most notable at the end).

    It's no surprise that it's the highest grossing non-3D film in the UK.

    So yes, I think it more favours a Brexit Britain than an EU one.

    Bravo.

    I find the slightly dismissive nature of the comments in this thread intriguing.

    People are more than willing to read in abstract concepts of faith, love, humanity into a film - but the thought of broaching politics in a Bond film is brushed off as waste of time. Maybe it is a slight waste of time reading any profound subtext into TMWTGG or DAF - but SF feels like a different beast.

    It's a film with something on its mind. That shouldn't be dismissed readily. There's a lot of interesting stuff within the film, aside from the slightly patriotic tone. It's a film about mothers, getting older, middle-age fatigue, obsolescence, etc. of course you get your action and chases on top of that as well.

    To reduce it down to a "Bond film" and therefore immune to analysis, almost defies the point of this forum's existence.

    I do feel it is a shame that a patriotism has become a dirty word, shots like this should be savoured:
    skyfall-movie-screencaps.com-16266.jpg

    But they have the capacity to be misinterpreted by right-wing populism movements.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited January 2017 Posts: 15,423
    Despite the "foreigner by birth" identity, I never heard or read Bond identifying as anything other than an Englishman.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,599
    "It's a film with something on its mind. That shouldn't be dismissed readily. There's a lot of interesting stuff within the film, aside from the slightly patriotic tone. It's a film about mothers, getting older, middle-age fatigue, obsolescence, etc. of course you get your action and chases on top of that as well."

    Spot on with all of your observations there. The scene where M stands by the coffins is a good example. I think it's fair to assume that the dead were civil servants rather than member's of the military and, as such, their funerals would be civil and individual. But lining them up and placing Union Jacks over each coffin re-enforces the British theme. Nothing to do with the main plot at all but it was put in.

    There are also more subtle references, when M's laptop is hacked, we briefly see a cartoon of M wearing a crown as if she was the Queen so mocking the monarchy can also be seen as threathening the concept of "Britishness"

    I think it can be over done, my kids watched Transformers 3 last week and you could tell it was a Michael Bay film just based on the Stars and Stripes inserted at every opportunity.

    Re the Scottish issue, sometimes I think there is some confusion here as we see the union jack many times within Bond movies and yet, "For England?" provides a very mixed message.

  • edited January 2017 Posts: 19,339
    Not forgetting in his psychiatric test in SF he gets asked :
    "Country ?"
    And almost immediately,without pause,Bond says "England"...

    And also SF : Silva : "England...the Empire",,

    In TSWLM also :
    "James,i need you"
    "So does England".

    In YOLT :

    "Aaah the things I do for England."

    In FYEO:
    "I don't expect you to understand,you are English,but im half Greek etc etc"

    I think its safe to say James Bond is English.....just like me !!
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Lucky bloody you! ;)
  • Posts: 4,599
    Yes, but how many times do we see the flag of St George. The "so does England" line is delivered knowing he has packed his Union Jack parachute. (Was the St George parachute in the wash?)
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 19,339
    That's just to appease N.Ireland,Wales and the ones who live in the North . ;)
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