SPECTRE: So who's going to play Ernst?

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  • Posts: 14,844
    echo wrote:
    I'm generally on the "no" side of bringing back Blofeld. I don't see the point of reintroducing iconic villains from the most successful and remembered Bond films--Dr. No, Red Grant, Goldfinger, Blofeld. IMHO, the Craig era has been most notable for its unearthing true Fleming gems like Vesper, Mathis, and Scaramanga (in the guise of Silva). God knows there are other characters like that, such as Brand and, perhaps, the Spangs.

    That actually would be an argument against the return of Blofeld I would be sensitive to. And I would add Gruboiszaboschikov to the list of Fleming's characters that can be used.
    boldfinger wrote:
    I don´t understand. What would be wrong with leaving names that have been massively used in the past in the past, but use Fleming´s description of Blofeld, with another name?

    That could work too. And General G I mentioned could be the new Blofeld as well.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    Give me one good argument why you are against using the name 'Ernst Stavro Blofeld' and 'SPECTRE'. In my opinion Bond films aren't solely made for fans...but for audiences that are way way larger than just us fans.

    Because they have already been used 6 times! SPECTRE: DN, FRWL, TB, YOLT, OHMSS and DAF. Blofeld: FRWL, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF and FYEO. They have been done to death. James Bond isn't Just about SPECTRE and Blofeld. With Live and Let Die EON was finally able to do something without relying on SPECTRE. Besides Both SPECTRE and Blofeld have been parodied so much that even if they tried changing Blofeld's appearance he would still be remembered and parodied. EoN's reboot is about starting fresh, not retreading old ground. It would just be remaking an old Bond film. Some of us like to see new ideas, not old ones dug up from the grave.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Murdock wrote:
    Besides Both SPECTRE and Blofeld have been parodied so much that even if they tried changing Blofeld's appearance he would still be remembered and parodied. EoN's reboot is about starting fresh, not retreading old ground. It would just be remaking an old Bond film. Some of us like to see new ideas, not old ones dug up from the grave.

    Anyone who's read the novels, and I'm assuming you have, will know that the Fleming Blofeld, in his various guises, has never been properly realised on screen. Neither has the intricacy or detail of his organisation. He's not necessarily wed to a story like a Drax or Goldfinger, so I don't have a problem if they feel they'd like to reinvigorate the character in the way they did with Daniel in CR.

  • Posts: 14,844
    Murdock wrote:
    Give me one good argument why you are against using the name 'Ernst Stavro Blofeld' and 'SPECTRE'. In my opinion Bond films aren't solely made for fans...but for audiences that are way way larger than just us fans.

    Because they have already been used 6 times! SPECTRE: DN, FRWL, TB, YOLT, OHMSS and DAF. Blofeld: FRWL, TB, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF and FYEO. They have been done to death. James Bond isn't Just about SPECTRE and Blofeld. With Live and Let Die EON was finally able to do something without relying on SPECTRE. Besides Both SPECTRE and Blofeld have been parodied so much that even if they tried changing Blofeld's appearance he would still be remembered and parodied. EoN's reboot is about starting fresh, not retreading old ground. It would just be remaking an old Bond film. Some of us like to see new ideas, not old ones dug up from the grave.

    Question: who remembers the name Blofeld among average moviegoers?

    And we covered the parody ground. The Joker has been parodied. Heck, he was a clown! And nobody here I think wants Blofeld to be used like Shredder in the TMNT cartoon. Of course we want him to be used sparingly. But a recurring, resilient adversary brings a completely different kind of menace than a one off adversary. Holmes had Moriarty, Bond had Blofeld.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited July 2013 Posts: 16,333
    Yeah Recurring Bond villains worked so well. He kept being recast which ultimately ruined him.

    Also someone please tell me what Blofeld did to make him be so iconic to be compaired with James Moriarty and The Joker? I don't remember reading anything that special about Blofeld.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Murdock wrote:
    Yeah Recurring Bond villains worked so well. He kept being recast which ultimately ruined him.

    Batman was played by three different actors within a period of five years and became the laughing stock of cinema. Christian Bale and Chris Nolan arrive on the scene and all is forgiven. It's amazing what an actor in the right hands can do with a role.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited July 2013 Posts: 11,139
    @Murdock He got to stroke pussy on screen.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited July 2013 Posts: 16,333
    doubleoego wrote:
    @Murdock He got to stroke pussy on screen.

    I'm talking about Blofeld of the novels. :p
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Yeah Recurring Bond villains worked so well. He kept being recast which ultimately ruined him.

    Batman was played by three different actors within a period of five years and became the laughing stock of cinema. Christian Bale and Chris Nolan arrive on the scene and all is forgiven. It's amazing what an actor in the right hands can do with a role.

    It wasn't the actors that made the role, It was the writing and direction of the characters.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited July 2013 Posts: 16,333
    Delete
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Yeah Recurring Bond villains worked so well. He kept being recast which ultimately ruined him.

    Batman was played by three different actors within a period of five years and became the laughing stock of cinema. Christian Bale and Chris Nolan arrive on the scene and all is forgiven. It's amazing what an actor in the right hands can do with a role.

    It wasn't the actors that made the role, It was the writing and direction of the characters.

    That's not my point. You can flog a character to death but it doesn't mean they can't be resurrected.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Yeah Recurring Bond villains worked so well. He kept being recast which ultimately ruined him.

    Batman was played by three different actors within a period of five years and became the laughing stock of cinema. Christian Bale and Chris Nolan arrive on the scene and all is forgiven. It's amazing what an actor in the right hands can do with a role.

    It wasn't the actors that made the role, It was the writing and direction of the characters.

    That's not my point. You can flog a character to death but it doesn't mean they can't be resurrected.

    I'm not saying he can't. I'm saying he shouldn't.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Yeah Recurring Bond villains worked so well. He kept being recast which ultimately ruined him.

    Batman was played by three different actors within a period of five years and became the laughing stock of cinema. Christian Bale and Chris Nolan arrive on the scene and all is forgiven. It's amazing what an actor in the right hands can do with a role.

    It wasn't the actors that made the role, It was the writing and direction of the characters.

    That's not my point. You can flog a character to death but it doesn't mean they can't be resurrected.

    I'm not saying he can't. I'm saying he shouldn't.

    I bet if it was announced you'd get a tiny pang of joy ;)
  • Posts: 14,844
    Murdock wrote:
    Yeah Recurring Bond villains worked so well. He kept being recast which ultimately ruined him.

    Also someone please tell me what Blofeld did to make him be so iconic to be compaired with James Moriarty and The Joker? I don't remember reading anything that special about Blofeld.

    Yes, they made mistakes recasting him and became utterly inconsistent with his characterization. But that's the point I made: if they remain consistent and don't use him too much, AND use the books as inspiration, yes, Blofeld works very well. It is not incidental that Fleming made him resilient, had him kill Bond's wife and got the closest to destroy Bond. Even after Blofeld was killed, his action cost Bond his memory and nearly his life.

    Moriarty is very much like Blofeld of the novels, actually: he was invent by Conan Doyle to be a worthy adversary to kill Holmes and was used only twice, or three if you count the story of Holmes' resurrection" as while death his henchmen are still active. And he was also used ad nauseam in adaptations, even though he barely appears in the original stories. And I don't remember anyone complaining about how he was portrayed by Eric Porter.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2013 Posts: 17,833
    boldfinger wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    boldfinger wrote:
    I don´t understand. What would be wrong with leaving names that have been massively used in the past in the past, but use Fleming´s description of Blofeld, with another name?
    That would be the best choice.

    And Quantum being out in public during there meeting is the perfect sign of secrecy. It's like real life spies blending into crowds. Who's going to think of looking for a secret meeting at an opera? SPECTRE has seen it's day. Quantum is the new SPECTRE. I've said it over and over again.

    Just because Bond has been rebooted doesn't mean all 20 movies have. While were at it, let's ask Who's going to play Tracy in B24-25? Hmm? who's going to play Jaws? Kerim Bay? Quarrel? Luigi? Scaramanga?

    Agreed. this is the best approach for the next few Bond films with Daniel Craig.
    Right. That´s settled then. Let´s call Babs and Michael B-) .

    Murdock wrote:
    And Quantum being out in public during there meeting is the perfect sign of secrecy. It's like real life spies blending into crowds. Who's going to think of looking for a secret meeting at an opera? SPECTRE has seen it's day. Quantum is the new SPECTRE. I've said it over and over again.
    And you were right over and over again @Murdock, but I´m afraid so is @bondsum:
    bondsum wrote:
    It doesn't mean I agree with them but the point I'm trying to make is that QoS wasn't well received by a large proportion of the paying public and I don't think the Quantum organization will be revisited again due to this. Basically I think Quantum is less likely to appear again than SPECTRE is.

    @Dragonpol has spoken!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Yeah Recurring Bond villains worked so well. He kept being recast which ultimately ruined him.

    Batman was played by three different actors within a period of five years and became the laughing stock of cinema. Christian Bale and Chris Nolan arrive on the scene and all is forgiven. It's amazing what an actor in the right hands can do with a role.

    It wasn't the actors that made the role, It was the writing and direction of the characters.

    That's not my point. You can flog a character to death but it doesn't mean they can't be resurrected.

    I'm not saying he can't. I'm saying he shouldn't.

    I bet if it was announced you'd get a tiny pang of joy ;)

    I'd be annoyed but I'd have to accept it. Much how few were annoyed by the Gadget Laden DB5 of Skyfall.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,833
    Murdock wrote:
    Yeah Recurring Bond villains worked so well. He kept being recast which ultimately ruined him.

    Also someone please tell me what Blofeld did to make him be so iconic to be compared with James Moriarty and The Joker? I don't remember reading anything that special about Blofeld.

    Exactly. Blofeld was handled very badly first time around. Being recast was only one of the main problems with Blofeld - just like they kept recasting Bond's CIA ally Felix Leiter in a way, and nobody outside of world Bondom's ever heard of him either.

    If Blofeld is to be reused (I'm against it personally) it should be done properly this time under a different name. No doubt John Logan is more than capable of writing a new villain to replace Blofeld - he did a good job with Raoul Silva in the recent Skyfall, so I have every confidence in him delivering in Bond 24.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Yeah Recurring Bond villains worked so well. He kept being recast which ultimately ruined him.

    Batman was played by three different actors within a period of five years and became the laughing stock of cinema. Christian Bale and Chris Nolan arrive on the scene and all is forgiven. It's amazing what an actor in the right hands can do with a role.

    It wasn't the actors that made the role, It was the writing and direction of the characters.

    That's not my point. You can flog a character to death but it doesn't mean they can't be resurrected.

    I'm not saying he can't. I'm saying he shouldn't.

    I bet if it was announced you'd get a tiny pang of joy ;)

    I'd be annoyed but I'd have to accept it. Much how few were annoyed by the Gadget Laden DB5 of Skyfall.

    I was one of those few. Although I won't go into why that was far worse than a returning Blofeld!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Yeah Recurring Bond villains worked so well. He kept being recast which ultimately ruined him.

    Batman was played by three different actors within a period of five years and became the laughing stock of cinema. Christian Bale and Chris Nolan arrive on the scene and all is forgiven. It's amazing what an actor in the right hands can do with a role.

    It wasn't the actors that made the role, It was the writing and direction of the characters.

    That's not my point. You can flog a character to death but it doesn't mean they can't be resurrected.

    I'm not saying he can't. I'm saying he shouldn't.

    I bet if it was announced you'd get a tiny pang of joy ;)

    I'd be annoyed but I'd have to accept it. Much how few were annoyed by the Gadget Laden DB5 of Skyfall.

    I was one of those few. Although I won't go into why that was far worse than a returning Blofeld!

    Well were making progress to a middle ground of sorts. :))
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ha ha it seems that way :D
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,833
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Yeah Recurring Bond villains worked so well. He kept being recast which ultimately ruined him.

    Batman was played by three different actors within a period of five years and became the laughing stock of cinema. Christian Bale and Chris Nolan arrive on the scene and all is forgiven. It's amazing what an actor in the right hands can do with a role.

    It wasn't the actors that made the role, It was the writing and direction of the characters.

    That's not my point. You can flog a character to death but it doesn't mean they can't be resurrected.

    I'm not saying he can't. I'm saying he shouldn't.

    I bet if it was announced you'd get a tiny pang of joy ;)

    I'd be annoyed but I'd have to accept it. Much how few were annoyed by the Gadget Laden DB5 of Skyfall.

    I was one of those few. Although I won't go into why that was far worse than a returning Blofeld!

    Well were making progress to a middle ground of sorts. :))

    I didn't really see this as any big problem as such, though I suppose that it did go against the pared down back to basics feel of the latter part of the film!
  • Posts: 1,548
    I may have misread but I'm sure someone earlier said that most of the general cinema going public wont have heard of Blofeld! I must have imagined it as no one surely could have talked such rubbish.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,833
    LeChiffre wrote:
    I may have misread but I'm sure someone earlier said that most of the general cinema going public wont have heard of Blofeld! I must have imagined it as no one surely could have talked such rubbish.

    Funny. That's what I thought too. I think the general public would recognise the villain name Blofeld. Now the villain name Dragonpol would of course be a different matter...
  • Posts: 11,119
    Ah well..........most likely Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson didn't hire 'internet nerds' to scout for fresh ideas on this forum ;).
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,833
    Ah well..........most likely Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson didn't hire 'internet nerds' to scout for fresh ideas on this forum ;).

    I wouldn't say that. These types of fan forums are probably an excellent way of garnering fan opinion and ideas.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ah well..........most likely Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson didn't hire 'internet nerds' to scout for fresh ideas on this forum ;).

    I wouldn't say that. These types of fan forums are probably an excellent way of garnering fan opinion and ideas.

    Well, one thing is certain. The first draft screenplays for Bond 24 are already finished and on Michael and Barbara's desks :-).

    I shall tell you this though....I'd loveeee to be part of these brainstorm sessions the actors have with the producers and scriptwriters about the screenplay :-). Because in all honesty....I think the real moviemakers, Barbara and Michael, must be 'nerds' too. I just....admire their job I guess hehe.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,833
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ah well..........most likely Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson didn't hire 'internet nerds' to scout for fresh ideas on this forum ;).

    I wouldn't say that. These types of fan forums are probably an excellent way of garnering fan opinion and ideas.

    Well, one thing is certain. The first draft screenplays for Bond 24 are already finished and on Michael and Barbara's desks :-).

    I shall tell you this though....I'd loveeee to be part of these brainstorm sessions the actors have with the producers and scriptwriters about the screenplay :-). Because in all honesty....I think the real moviemakers, Barbara and Michael, must be 'nerds' too. I just....admire their job I guess hehe.

    I'm sure we'd all like a stab at writing a James Bond film by committee. We all think we would have the best ideas.
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 11,119
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ah well..........most likely Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson didn't hire 'internet nerds' to scout for fresh ideas on this forum ;).

    I wouldn't say that. These types of fan forums are probably an excellent way of garnering fan opinion and ideas.

    Well, one thing is certain. The first draft screenplays for Bond 24 are already finished and on Michael and Barbara's desks :-).

    I shall tell you this though....I'd loveeee to be part of these brainstorm sessions the actors have with the producers and scriptwriters about the screenplay :-). Because in all honesty....I think the real moviemakers, Barbara and Michael, must be 'nerds' too. I just....admire their job I guess hehe.

    I'm sure we'd all like a stab at writing a James Bond film by committee. We all think we would have the best ideas.

    Having seen some interviews of John Logan though, he's very fanatical, almost like a little kid :-P. Way more than the very 'neutral' Neal Purvis & Robert Wade when you see them on screen. I guess it isn't a bad thing to be a 'passionate nerdie' ;-).
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 14,844
    LeChiffre wrote:
    I may have misread but I'm sure someone earlier said that most of the general cinema going public wont have heard of Blofeld! I must have imagined it as no one surely could have talked such rubbish.

    It was me. I stand by what I said: I doubt they know Blofeld beyond the image that has been spoofed so often. I am not saying they won't have heard of it per se, but that the name is not very widely remembered.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2013 Posts: 17,833
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ah well..........most likely Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson didn't hire 'internet nerds' to scout for fresh ideas on this forum ;).

    I wouldn't say that. These types of fan forums are probably an excellent way of garnering fan opinion and ideas.

    Well, one thing is certain. The first draft screenplays for Bond 24 are already finished and on Michael and Barbara's desks :-).

    I shall tell you this though....I'd loveeee to be part of these brainstorm sessions the actors have with the producers and scriptwriters about the screenplay :-). Because in all honesty....I think the real moviemakers, Barbara and Michael, must be 'nerds' too. I just....admire their job I guess hehe.

    I'm sure we'd all like a stab at writing a James Bond film by committee. We all think we would have the best ideas.

    Having seen some interviews of John Logan though, he's very fanatical, almost like a little kid :-P. Way more than the very 'neutral' Neal Purvis & Robert Wade when you see them on screen. I guess it isn't a bad thing to be a 'passionate nerdie' ;-).

    If he's passionate about Bond is see that as a virtue, not a fault! It means he's one of us in a strange way and that the inmates and running the asylum...
  • Posts: 11,119
    Ludovico wrote:
    LeChiffre wrote:
    I may have misread but I'm sure someone earlier said that most of the general cinema going public wont have heard of Blofeld! I must have imagined it as no one surely could have talked such rubbish.

    It was me. I stand by what I said: I doubt they know Blofeld beyond the image that has been spoofed so often. I am not saying they won't have heard of it per se, but that the name is not very widely remembered.

    Here's where a famous, big, Oscar-heavy actor comes into the discussion ;-). Because do you really think 'The Dark Knight' got such a huge success because of the character The Joker? Off course not. It was how he was written by Goyer & Nolan ánd how Heath Ledger portrayed him.

    That should be done with Blofeld too. Preferably an actor like....Daniel Day-Lewis, Michael Shannon, Christoph Waltz or Philip Seymour-Hoffman.
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