How should the 00 section be handled in future movies?

edited August 2016 in Bond 26 & Beyond Posts: 676
The relevance and usefulness of the 00 section (and by extension Bond) has been a theme of both Skyfall and Spectre. Personally, I feel these films have got it mostly wrong. Skyfall's exploration of the value of human intelligence over espionage via computers ("every now and then a trigger has to be pulled") was thoughtful, but M discussing the 00 section at a public inquiry didn't work for me. Isn't the 00 section meant to be a government secret? Wouldn't the head of MI6 acknowledging the existence of a secret murder squad cause a public uproar?

Spectre takes these ideas even further by having characters debate the value of the 00 section (now bizarrely renamed the "00 program") versus drone strikes, electronic surveillance, etc. I assume we're meant to agree that the 00 section is a safer bet than C's new world order. But it's hard to support the 00 section in the real world, which Spectre seems to ask for, as it drags the 00 section into a real-world context. I certainly can't get behind the idea of government-sanctioned killers who aren't legally accountable to anybody. And it gets even harder to be on Bond's side when he makes the call not to kill Blofeld! I don't think a Bond film should get the audience dwelling on the ethics of a licence to kill. I think the licence to kill was simply meant to be one of the character's "hooks" - something that made him stand out from other heroes in the '50s and '60s.

Lots more I could say, but I'll give it a rest. Okay, your turn... How would you like to see the 00 section handled going forward?
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Comments

  • Posts: 1,092
    I think it's high time we meet another 00. I wish there was more said about Bond being the best of them. It means little if we never see any of the others.
  • Posts: 12,436
    I wouldn't mind the next Bond girl being a 00? Vesper Lynd is closest we have had working for the Treasurery.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited June 2016 Posts: 4,116
    I wouldn't mind M just over 00 section under Universal Export guise. Another C over MI6. That way you keep Vauxhall and the old Universal Export offices at the same time.

    I mean the MI6 building really exists ...it's there not rubble. How you going to reconcile that?

    Anyway, the OOs could be separate or housed separately and more secretive.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,243
    Birdleson wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind the next Bond girl being a 00? Vesper Lynd is closest we have had working for the Treasurery.

    Call me old fashioned (I am), but I'd rather not deal with female 00s.

    Then I think you are a sexist misogynist dinosaur, a relic of the cold war



    Sorry, had to get in before someone else did
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Why shouldn't there be a female 00?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think in an old still from TB , one of the OOs was a woman. Very forward thinking
    for the 60s.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2016 Posts: 16,317
    There was a female OO in one of the later Bond comic strips I recall. She was given just a name and no actual number like '008' however. I personally have no problem with this occurring in a Bond film or novel. Things change...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 38,233
    I think in an old still from TB , one of the OOs was a woman. Very forward thinking
    for the 60s.

    During the meeting of the 00's? You can see nearly all of them, and they all are men.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Must have been one of the secretaries having a sit down between takes. :D
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 38,233
    There's a shot of Bond sitting amongst the other 00's, and I think you see a woman or two sitting at a table behind everyone else.
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 1,627
    I'd have no problem with a female '00' Agent, and would in fact encourage it, provided it wasn't done in a manner that made it seem like it was being done just for the sake of doing so.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 38,233
    dalton wrote: »
    I'd have no problem with a female '00' Agent, and would in fact encourage it, provided it wasn't done in a manner that made it seem like it was being done just for the sake of doing so.

    Which is probably how it would be done: just for the sake of doing it.
  • Posts: 1,627
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    I'd have no problem with a female '00' Agent, and would in fact encourage it, provided it wasn't done in a manner that made it seem like it was being done just for the sake of doing so.

    Which is probably how it would be done: just for the sake of doing it.

    Sadly, this is probably true. Given the way the films have been written over the past two decades, I can't say I'd trust them with such a plot device at this point in time.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Probably true but, I do love some of the fight sequences with Black Widow in the
    Marvel films.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    The only appearances of other OOs should be when they get killed and Bond has to take over the mission.

    I do not want to see Bond on a joint mission with a OO in the same way I don't want to see 'team MI6' getting in on the action again.

    I wouldn't be against a scene where we see another OO in passing played by Elba or Gillian Anderson as a gag like the painting in DN but Bond works alone. Bond films are not MI.

    I can't believe people are still advocating the tiresome 'female agent who is the equal of Bond and works in partnership with him' idea. I thought that hackneyed concept had finally been killed off by the Jinx fiasco?
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 16,317
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    I'd have no problem with a female '00' Agent, and would in fact encourage it, provided it wasn't done in a manner that made it seem like it was being done just for the sake of doing so.

    Which is probably how it would be done: just for the sake of doing it.

    Yes, agreed, if that's the only reason for doing it - i.e. a box ticking female equality exercise then better not to do it at all. Just like the introduction of Q and Miss Moneypenny in the Craig films such a female OO agent would have to be earnt, not just there merely for equality tokenism.
  • KaijuDirectorOO7KaijuDirectorOO7 Once Upon a Time Somewhere...
    Posts: 189
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    There was a female OO in one of the later Bond comic strips I recall. She was given just a name and no actual number like '008' however. I personally have no problem with this occurring in a Bond film or novel. Things change...

    You mean Suzie Kew?
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2016 Posts: 16,317
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    There was a female OO in one of the later Bond comic strips I recall. She was given just a name and no actual number like '008' however. I personally have no problem with this occurring in a Bond film or novel. Things change...

    You mean Suzie Kew?

    Yes, that's the one. Read about it in The Bond Files (2000 edition) years ago! I don't have a copy of that particular strip (or strips?) though.
  • Posts: 233
    I've always liked the idea that the double-oh section is so secret and off the books that they receive their orders from a nondescript cover office in London and answer directly to M and the Minister of Defence, like in the pre-Brosnan era. I think it lost some of its magic when they stuck M's office in the MI6 HQ on Vauxhall Cross, forcing Bond in with the desk jockeys and bureaucrats. Of course it got even worse when SF had M mentioning the section at a public enquiry, there would be unbelievable outrage if that happened in reality. We're talking about a government sanctioned hit squad that operates on foreign sovereign territory.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited June 2016 Posts: 4,116
    I've always liked the idea that the double-oh section is so secret and off the books that they receive their orders from a nondescript cover office in London and answer directly to M and the Minister of Defence, like in the pre-Brosnan era. I think it lost some of its magic when they stuck M's office in the MI6 HQ on Vauxhall Cross, forcing Bond in with the desk jockeys and bureaucrats. Of course it got even worse when SF had M mentioning the section at a public enquiry, there would be unbelievable outrage if that happened in reality. We're talking about a government sanctioned hit squad that operates on foreign sovereign territory.

    Yea I had similar idea. Let a C run MI6 and M run the 00 section under the guise of Universal Export. That way you got the real MI6 building and the cool old traditional office off somewhere else under a Universal Export or Exports marquee.
  • Posts: 14,781
    I would like future Bond films to go back to referring to it as "the Double-O-Section" as opposed to "the Double-O-Program". Slightly nitpicky, but that was one element of SPECTRE that didn't quite sit well with me.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I would like future Bond films to go back to referring to it as "the Double-O-Section" as opposed to "the Double-O-Program". Slightly nitpicky, but that was one element of SPECTRE that didn't quite sit well with me.

    You're not going to get any accusations of nitpicking by me mate. Wanting to get rid of something that pisses on Fleming's grave is not nitpicking in my book.

    I'm still at a loss as to why this happened. It was 'section' in SF. Did they do focus groups and decide Americans would understand 'program' more easily? Or were they trying to make things sound more Bourne-esque?

    It's like Henderson saying 'stirred not shaken' in that I can't believe there wasn't one person on set who didn't say 'hang on that's f**king bullshit isn't it?'
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Program, makes it sound like a temporary experiment, where as "Section" makes
    it sound like a long established security department . In my view anyway. :)
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,569
    One of the silliest bits of Spectre was M on the bridge telling the CO19 officer, "Mallory, double-0 section. Stand them down."

    Sounds like a great "Go M!" moment on paper but the officer shouldn't have a clue what the section is or who Mallory is in my opinion. By making them such an issue, I think it's taken away something from the whole Double-0 section that always felt special in the Connery years. I understand why Mendes did it thematically, but it didn't quite work in the end.

    We need an overhaul of the secret operations division in MI6 when Craig comes back or a new Bond steps in to continue the new timeline. I think the current Double-0 section should be "disbanded in the interest of the public" or something along those lines and reshuffled into an underground section that almost nobody knows about going forward. Bond, after his break, could easily readjust himself into the new section while we can still acknowledge the plot details from CR-SP.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    One of the silliest bits of Spectre was M on the bridge telling the CO19 officer, "Mallory, double-0 section. Stand them down."

    Sounds like a great "Go M!" moment on paper but the officer shouldn't have a clue what the section is or who Mallory is in my opinion. By making them such an issue, I think it's taken away something from the whole Double-0 section that always felt special in the Connery years. I understand why Mendes did it thematically, but it didn't quite work in the end.

    Yes. Everyone in the Met gets regular briefings on the 00 program and the names of who works for it do they?

    Apart from anything else shouldn't the bloke go 'It's called the 00 program mate. We haven't called it section since 2012 so you clearly aren't who you state you are. Get on the ground now before I empty a clip into you!'

    Yet another nail in the coffin lid of the third act writing. A coffin lid which is more nail than coffin.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    In that scene, I though Fiennes ran, very awkwardly ?
  • ChriscoopChriscoop North Yorkshire
    Posts: 281
    Following on from Spectre, i think the 00 section of mi6 should become more clandestine, the home Secretary would have a meeting with M and basically give him carte blanche and an undisclosed budget, M reports directly to the pm and home Secretary, the boss of mi6 is kept at arms length, and all the 00 operations are deemed wholly deniable, not so much Bourne esque black ops but something more akin to Fleming's 00 section IMHO, I also want bond back out on fully sanctioned missions. I would have loved to have seen sent to Canada to help plug their leaks along with corine as alluded to at the end of qos.
  • Posts: 281
    One of the silliest bits of Spectre was M on the bridge telling the CO19 officer, "Mallory, double-0 section. Stand them down."

    I didn't like that part too. M is chief of MI6 not only the 00-section.
    For me Mallory should say "Mallory, Secret Intelligence Service".

  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Sorry but I don't they modified the lexicon to cater to the American audience. My guess is our three screenwriters and Logan simply didn't use the proper word.

    Remember we're talking about the same group that first tried to reincarnate Blofeld as an African warlord only to fix that blasphemy by making Blofeld Bond's foster brother.
  • Posts: 233
    It's like Henderson saying 'stirred not shaken' in that I can't believe there wasn't one person on set who didn't say 'hang on that's f**king bullshit isn't it?'

    I've always interpreted that scene as Henderson screwing up and Bond being too polite to correct him. Connery's delivery even sounds a bit sarcastic.
    Chriscoop wrote: »
    Following on from Spectre, i think the 00 section of mi6 should become more clandestine, the home Secretary would have a meeting with M and basically give him carte blanche and an undisclosed budget, M reports directly to the pm and home Secretary, the boss of mi6 is kept at arms length, and all the 00 operations are deemed wholly deniable, not so much Bourne esque black ops but something more akin to Fleming's 00 section IMHO, I also want bond back out on fully sanctioned missions.

    I have to agree with alot of that, sounds like the perfect way to update the double-oh section to a post-Snowden world. Stick M's office in a Universal Exports building off of Trafalgar Square and keep the whole operation off the books. After all, we are talking about a government hit squad with no oversight and a licence to kill with discretion.
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