Spectre versus the field: Skyfall

1161719212243

Comments

  • edited September 2016 Posts: 4,602
    It would be interesting to see what Bond would have done under the same circumstances, there is still a strange taboo concerning killing "mans best friend" in mainstream movies, so with True Lies, he perhaps knocked them out rather than kill them.
    A staffy would make an interesting, modern day alternative to a shark?
    PS anyone remember in First Blood, you dont see Rambo kill the dog with his knife, just an offscreen yelp. (we digress as usual)
    PPS I was thinking a modern Fatima Blush type character could have a trained Cheater ? try running from that! (faster than a snake)
  • Yes I don't criticise her for acting irrationally, but if she had gotten on the golf cart, even if it didn't go too fast, it probably could have protected her by acting as a buffer of sorts between her and the dogs.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited September 2016 Posts: 5,080
    Not really.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 4,602
    OK, massive off topic but some golf carts operate at 72 volts DC. So perhaps possible rip the positive and negative cables from the motor and stun the dogs...job done.
  • Posts: 19,339
    The dogs would have just jumped inside it and dragged her out...even the tree trunks were smooth so she couldn't climb a tree.

    Basically it's a no-win situation....she was going to die.
  • Oh well.... if I was in the situation I'd hedge my bets and get in the cart.... But I'd die anyway...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    This really was a no win situation imho. Dobermans are quite difficult to outrun and the cart wasn't going to save her. She did what she could in the circumstances.

    Perhaps the only thing she really should have done is remove her shoes before making a break for it to allow for better acceleration, grip and pace in the forest, but that wouldn't have saved her from those dogs.

    It was game over as soon as it started.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Why not just run over to the bloke handing out the shotguns and give the dogs a barrel each?

    Then reload and give the same to Chang and Drax.

    Then quip 'No it's you who's fired Hugo.'
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    PTS: Spectre
    Title Track: Moonraker
    Title Credits: Moonraker
    Main Villain: Moonraker
    Main Bond Girl: Spectre
    Henchman: Spectre
    Overall Plot: Moonraker
    Dialogue: Spectre
    Score: Moonraker
    Settings: Spectre
    Action: Spectre
    Humor: Spectre
    Cinematography: Spectre
    Benign Bizarre: Spectre
    Suspense: Spectre
    Minor Characters: Spectre
    Glamour: Spectre
    Bond Performance: Spectre

    SP: 13
    MR: 5
  • Posts: 1,296
    I like her boots though. :)
  • This certainly hasn't been a dull round. Anybody have some final entries?
  • Posts: 4,026
    This certainly hasn't been a dull round. Anybody have some final entries?

    I think everyone feels bruised and battered at the end of this round.

  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    vzok wrote: »
    This certainly hasn't been a dull round. Anybody have some final entries?

    I think everyone feels bruised and battered at the end of this round.

    Some knockouts, too.
  • Posts: 4,325
    Move on to FYEO?
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,349
    FYEO time I think, no votes for a week.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 1,595
    Coming in late. Missed TSWLM. But I'll do MR. I write a lot more "ties" than most members on here, so I'm sorry if that skews results. It's been probably a year (or more) since I've seen MR, and a good six months at least for SP, so if I really can't think of a winner I'll just throw a tie.

    Moonraker vs. Spectre

    PTS: TIE
    Title Track: MR
    Title Credits: SP
    Main Villain: MR
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: MR (for Chang's battle cries, and Jaws)
    Overall Plot: SP (I guess. Neither is super strong or complex)
    Dialogue: MR
    Score: MR (handily)
    Settings: MR (handily)
    Action: TIE
    Humor: MR
    Cinematography: MR
    Benign Bizarre: TIE*
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: MR (for all the ladies)
    Glamour: MR (Lewis Gilbert Bond films should never lose this category)
    Bond Performance: TIE

    Final score: 10 - 4 - 4 in favor of Moonraker, which I do rank as a better film although not by too much (probably about 3-5 notches).

    * On the topic of the "Benign Bizarre" category - I think it's pretty strange that it is in this tally, frankly. I'm not saying that it is a bad thing in a Bond film, but I think that to take it as a "plus" for every Bond film that contains more of it than whatever it's going up against is a little odd. I think some Bond films benefit from that benign bizarre factor more than others (for example, Guy Hamilton's Bond films vs. John Glen's). Hamilton utilized the bizarre elements of Bond's world much stronger than Glen and with more stylistic confidence, and therefore those elements in his movies are a positive, whereas Glen's come off as much more jarring and off-putting for me. Maybe I've rambled on a bit too much about something that is really quite irrelevant.

    For the record here, I do like the BB factor in most Bond films. I'm not necessarily arguing that it be removed, but I do think it's a bit strange to immediately assume that whichever film "wins" this category deserves a "point" towards its quality (although this qualitative stuff is a little bit of fun nonsense at the end of the day anyways, isn't it, so I should just shutup).
  • Posts: 4,325
    Right FYEO

    PTS: SP
    Title track: SP
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: FYEO
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: FYEO
    Dialogue: FYEO
    Score: FYEO
    Settings: FYEO
    Action: FYEO
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: FYEO
    Minor Characters: FYEO
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: FYEO

    FYEO - 9
    SP - 9
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    FYEO

    PTS: Tie
    Title track: FYEO (it is one of my favourites)
    Titles: Tie
    Main villain: Tie (both are not good and two great actors are a bit wasted)
    Main Bond Girl: FYEO
    Henchman: FYEO (Hinx is strong but nothing else, he is also not successfull like Loque who at least kills a few people)
    Plot: FYEO
    Dialogue: FYEO
    Score: FYEO
    Settings: FYEO
    Action: FYEO
    Humour: Tie
    Cinematography: Tie (both have great cinematography)
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: FYEO
    Minor Characters: SP (Bibi ruins it)
    Glamour: Tie (I like the Casino secene in FYEO very much)
    Bond performance: FYEO

    FYEO - 10
    SP - 2
    Tie - 6
  • Posts: 19,339
    PTS: FYEO
    Title track: SP
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: FYEO
    Dialogue: FYEO
    Score: SP
    Settings: FYEO
    Action: FYEO
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: Tie
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: Tie

    FYEO - 4
    SP - 11
    Tie - 2
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited September 2016 Posts: 2,252
    PTS: SP (nothing much happening in FYEO and I can't stand Blofeld's cackling
    Title track: FYEO
    Titles: SP (Kleinman)
    Main villain: SP (for the acting and screen presence)
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP (both in memorable but the brutal hinx fight secures this victory)
    Plot: FYEO
    Dialogue: SP (I'll give it for the MI6 dialogue alone)
    Score: FYEO
    Settings: FYEO (more time spent at the locations)
    Action: FYEO
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP (FYEO is forgettable in this department. Columbo is the only stand out)
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: Tie

    FYEO - 5
    SP - 12
    Tie - 1

    Surprisingly SPECTRE wins! Or perhaps not surprising. By the elements spectre fares quite well, but not when you put it all together

  • Posts: 19,339
    I wouldn't say Columbo is a minor character...someone more like Luigi would count on that score,but either way SP is better in this category by some margin.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,721
    PTS: SP (one of SP's strong points)

    Title track: FYEO (not keen on either)

    Titles: SP (Not keen on SP's but FYEO's is bland)

    Main villain: SP (tough one but I think Blofeld at least has presence. Like one of my faves TLD - the villains are not a strength in FYEO)

    Main Bond Girl: FYEO (strong character motivation, good presence and style, effective)

    Henchman: SP (Another strength of SP)

    Plot: FYEO (I like the elements - cold war, revenge and the mystery of the villain's identity)

    Dialogue: FYEO

    Score: FYEO (I give this for two reasons - A Drive In The Country and one of my favourites - Submarine. Even if it has some awful moments too like 'make it last all night!!')

    Settings: FYEO (A strength of both films but I love the snow and sea settings - both used very well for action and tension scenes. The monastery is iconic for me too.)

    Action: FYEO (I like SP's action but FYEO has so much great stuff - my favourite of Moore's outings. PTS helicopter stunts are awesome, citerion car chase is inventive and unusual, the skiing and Locque chases great, keel hauling sequence is tense and the mountain climb climax excellent.)

    Humour: SP (I like the humour in SP. FYEO's is misguided - head slapping PTS, Bibi, hockey fight)

    Cinematography: FYEO (I like how both are filmed.)

    Benign Bizarre: SP (Mainly because FYEO doesn't have too much strangeness)

    Suspense: FYEO (the suspense builds up due to the uncertain source of villainy. Individual scenes are great for this too. Keel haul and mountain climbing especially)

    Minor Characters: FYEO (mr white and q are great in SP. Mr white's scene is a highlight. Bibi is a let down - but so is Denbeigh. Overall SP has more memorable minor characters - but - if I can't put Colombo in villain or henchman category - then he must count as a 'minor character' in the terms of this category selection - just as I would put Kerim bey in 'minor characters' for FRWL.)

    Glamour: FYEO

    Bond performance: FYEO (Moore is excellent at times in this - his kicking the car scene is iconic and just as memorable as any of the lighter moments he had in the franchise)

    FYEO - 12
    SP - 6

    FYEO wins.
    SP did very well in this considering FYEO would probably be top ten for me. Cut Bibi, ice hockey and Maggie thatcher out of this film and it's even higher. I think the water sequences in this film are actually better than most water sequences in the franchise - the keel haul and diving sequences are actually very tense and threatening. SP has some quality things too - and I think for something like cinematography or minor characters it could be a tie - but i refuse to give them in this thread.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    PTS: FYEO (I've really liked this since the first time I saw it. Moore is sombre like never before at Tracy's grave, and it's nice to see the return of the big bad 'B', despite the 'delicatessen' line. Ironically, SP homages it with the 'outside the helicopter' in mid air bit)

    Title track: FYEO (this is damn close because I personally think both these songs are total shiite, but I give it to Sheena because she's a looker)

    Titles: SP (even though she's a looker it was offensive to see her mug in the title sequence. I'm assuming she demanded it. So Kleinman for the win)

    Main villain: SP (Useless though this iteration of Blofeld may be, Kristatos is one of the most forgettable villains in the franchise, apart from that loser Renard)

    Main Bond Girl: FYEO (Both attractive French babes, but Melina is one of the greats, and Bouquet is just too gorgeous).

    Henchman: SP (I don't rate Hinx as highly as others here, but compared to the completely forgettable Kriegler, this is an easy win)

    Plot: FYEO (easily -simple revenge, without any family nonsense)

    Dialogue: SP (it's close, and both are subpar, but FYEO has too few memorable lines)

    Score: FYEO (even though it's terribly unbalanced and marred by the disco tunes, the slower bits, the gunbarrel and the 'Submarine' track give it the win. Additionally, it incorporates Sheena's title track nicely)

    Settings: FYEO (gorgeous 'real' locales and beautifully filmed)

    Action: FYEO (easy win just on the basis of the ski sequence)

    Humour: SP (FYEO is a particularly serious affair, and that's not a good thing)

    Cinematography: FYEO (sorry. I don't like piss colouring)

    Benign Bizarre: SP (FYEO is one of the more down to earth Bond films and SP has more of the old school Bond weirdness factor)

    Suspense: FYEO (ski sequence, keelhauling, mountain climbing)

    Minor Characters: FYEO (Columbo, Luigi, Bibi)

    Glamour: SP (only on the basis of the train sequence and Mrs. Sciarra)

    Bond performance: FYEO (Easy win. One of Rog's more serious efforts easily shades Craig's worst performance as Bond imho)
    ----

    FYEO - 11
    SP - 7

    I rank FYEO much higher as a film than I do SP, but SP has performed remarkably well here, because FYEO has fewer real high spots in comparison to some of the other great Bond films of the past.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 3,336
    PTS: SP
    Title track: FYEO
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: FYEO
    Main Bond Girl: FYEO
    Henchman: TIE
    Plot: FYEO
    Dialogue: FYEO
    Score: FYEO
    Settings: FYEO
    Action: FYEO
    Humour: FYEO
    Cinematography: TIE
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: FYEO (mountain climbing, ski jump sequence)
    Minor Characters: FYEO
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: FYEO

    12 - 2 - 4 to FYEO
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    PTS: FYEO (yeah, I love it)
    Title track: FYEO (love me some Sheena)
    Titles: FYEO (See above)
    Main villain: FYEO (the slimy Kristatos is marginally better than Waltz's muddled Blofeld)
    Main Bond Girl: FYEO (Melina is one of the best!)
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: FYEO (a simple, Cold War affair that is nicely paced)
    Dialogue: SP (nothing of interest in FYEO)
    Score: FYEO (Love it, disco and all)
    Settings: FYEO (beautiful location work)
    Action: FYEO (slam dunk)
    Humour: FYEO
    Cinematography: FYEO (mainly because of the location work- beats Spectre's filter)
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: FYEO (climbing scene alone)
    Minor Characters: FYEO
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: FYEO (Moore is bloody fantastic)

    FYEO- 14
    SP- 4
  • Posts: 4,602
    PTS: FYEO
    Title track: FYEO - underated IMHO
    Titles: FYEO - Sheena is great
    Main villain: FYEO Walz is asleep
    Main Bond Girl: FYEO -
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: FYEO
    Dialogue: SP (but close)
    Score: FYEO - SP too generic
    Settings: FYEO - a crispness
    Action: FYEO
    Humour: FYEO
    Cinematography: FYEO
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: FYEO
    Minor Characters: FYEO
    Glamour: SP (train scene semi works)
    Bond performance: FYEO - Craig struggles, Roger doesn't

    Also 14-4 to FYEO
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    wrt cinematography:

    this one shot when Gonzalez and Melina fly over that one island and you look at the Havelocks' boat is one of my favourite camera shots. It is not very special but I like its natural character...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    GBF wrote: »
    wrt cinematography:

    this one shot when Gonzalez and Melina fly over that one island and you look at the Havelocks' boat is one of my favourite camera shots. It is not very special but I like its natural character...
    Completely agree. I watched it a couple of weeks back and that scene stayed with me as well. Majestic. The other is when Bond arrives in Cortina and goes out to his hotel balcony prior to meeting Luigi.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,513
    GBF wrote: »
    wrt cinematography:

    this one shot when Gonzalez and Melina fly over that one island and you look at the Havelocks' boat is one of my favourite camera shots. It is not very special but I like its natural character...

    It's funny, that scene stuck with me upon my last viewing, as well.
  • Posts: 4,325
    That scene always sticks with me too. Think they should have used that scene as the PTS and gone from her eyes into the title sequence.
Sign In or Register to comment.