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The June 2016 UK Referendum on EU Membership: [UPDATE] What kind of BREXIT do YOU want?

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Comments

  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,602
    Can you imagine how the public and the media would view another country that ignored the result of a referendum and held another one ...or another one until the right result came in. How we would sneer and shout at how undemocratic they were and how lucky we are to leave in a country where the voters are given more respect.
  • SpectreNumberTwoSpectreNumberTwo
    edited June 2016 Posts: 389
    I have a degree in economics from the Open University that I gained when I left the services to fill my time while looking for a job, the one thing I leant above all else is that economic models can show anything you want them to say. Basically they can't be trusted when used to illustrate a certain view point for personal gain because they can be manipulated to prove or disprove a point by including or excluding various factors. If you listen to most economists, they preface a comment with 'should this happen', which is basically econo speak for we have no definative answer, but if it does happen then this definately will occur, which it may not, but the odds are more in it's favour.

    It's a bit like saying if you set fire to your wallet then your going to be poorer, bloody obvious I know, likelihood you'd do that.....Nil, but still to an economis it's a possibilty, if they make the additional asumption that your a pyromaniac, which your not, it becomes even more likely......get the point.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Dare to fully read the article I posted on top of this page. There you will find all the answers.

    Alright mate give it a rest.

    It's longer than the big print version of War & Peace and I've got to drive to Nice in the morning.

    I've read the first half dozen paragraphs and it does seem quite an interesting read but keeping banging on at everyone to read it is bad form/extremely irritating.

    If people want to read it and get back to you they will.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    But the problem with both choices is the fact that they both have
    benifits and drawbacks. You simply have to decide which one has
    more benifits for you, in your opinion. :) It's really not hard.
    Because someone votes differently to you, that doesn't make them
    stupid or less informed, just that they have looked at the same infomation,
    but have come to a different conclusion.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    SpectreNumberTwo wrote: »
    I have a degree in economics from the Open University that I gained when I left the services to fill my time while looking for a job, the one thing I leant above all else is that economic models can show anything you want them to say. Basically they can't be trusted when used to illustrate a certain view point for personal gain because they can be manipulated to prove or disprove a point by including or excluding various factors. If you listen to most economists, they preface a comment with 'should this happen', which is basically econo speak for we have no f**king idea what's going on, but if it does happen then this definately will occur, which it may not but the odds are more in it's favour.

    It's a bit like saying if you set fire to your wallet then your going to be poorer, bloody obvious I know, likelihood you'd do that.....Nil, but still to an economis it's a possibilty, if they make the additional asumption that your a pyromaniac, which your not, it becomes even more likely......get the point.
    Agreed. I'm one as well, but I'll concede that it deserves its reputation as 'the dismal science'. I'll add 'financial modelers' to that ilk as well. These are the so called genius mathematicians whose off-line spreadsheets were at the heart of the financial crisis. Same problem - their 'models' had certain constants & assumptions built into them that actually weren't constant in the real world, and failed to contemplate systemic risk.
  • SpectreNumberTwoSpectreNumberTwo
    Posts: 389
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    But the problem with both choices is the fact that they both have
    benifits and drawbacks. You simply have to decide which one has
    more benifits for you, in your opinion. :) It's really not hard.
    Because someone votes differently to you, that doesn't make them
    stupid or less informed, just that they have looked at the same infomation,
    but have come to a different conclusion.

    I was looking for the joke but this is a really reasoned argument, well said old boy. =D>
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,602
    So do we ban old people from voting? Do we ban working class Northerners from voting? Do we ban those with less than five GCSE? etc, what exactly do inners want? other than another vote, set up slightly differently so they win? There are Orwellian undertones to some of the arguments I have heard re the unfairness of vote on Thurs. We all had one vote and that's it.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    So do we ban old people from voting? Do we ban working class Northerners from voting? Do we ban those with less than five GCSE? etc, what exactly do inners want? other than another vote, set up slightly differently so they win? There are Orwellian undertones to some of the arguments I have heard re the unfairness of vote on Thurs. We all had one vote and that's it.

    They want a Guardian-reading, Socialist utopia. Intellectual dogging for the social media generation. Just don't mention Islam.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,602
    If the government want rioting in the streets, they are going about it the right way. DC needs to come out from hiding and tell the nation that we voted for Brexit and we are getting Brexit. His silences leaves some element of hope for those who think they can overturn the wishes of the majority.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    He was last seen, buying a pig's head from his local butchers :D
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,602
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07h0q11/question-time-eu-special-the-case-for-remain

    13.30. "If the British public vote to leave, how can you as British Prime Minister possibly remain?"
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2016 Posts: 15,696
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    He was last seen, buying a pig's head from his local butchers :D

    I can picture Cameron doing his own version of the Bond and Sanchez meet in LTK, only having a little pig in his arms instead of an iguana.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,871
    RC7 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    So do we ban old people from voting? Do we ban working class Northerners from voting? Do we ban those with less than five GCSE? etc, what exactly do inners want? other than another vote, set up slightly differently so they win? There are Orwellian undertones to some of the arguments I have heard re the unfairness of vote on Thurs. We all had one vote and that's it.

    They want a Guardian-reading, Socialist utopia. Intellectual dogging for the social media generation. Just don't mention Islam.

    There can be and should be a left argument against the EU. I voted Exit for what I consider progressive reasons. I think many Exit voters did not recognize themselves in the rather stateless, dehumanising type of capitalism the EU seems to favour.

    When everything's said and done I favour the sovereignty of nations over the authority of a federal super state.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,602
    Also on that Question time was another question regarding the fact that nobody seemed to know how we would leave and he simply does not answer the question. I genuinely think that DC has deluded himself into thinking that a Brexit vote just would not happen.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    At least we know Dave is alive.

    Where's poor old George?

    Someone go and check his garage. I think I can hear the engine running.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    So do we ban old people from voting? Do we ban working class Northerners from voting? Do we ban those with less than five GCSE? etc, what exactly do inners want? other than another vote, set up slightly differently so they win? There are Orwellian undertones to some of the arguments I have heard re the unfairness of vote on Thurs. We all had one vote and that's it.

    They want a Guardian-reading, Socialist utopia. Intellectual dogging for the social media generation. Just don't mention Islam.

    There can be and should be a left argument against the EU. I voted Exit for what I consider progressive reasons. I think many Exit voters did not recognize themselves in the rather stateless, dehumanising type of capitalism the EU seems to favour.

    When everything's said and done I favour the sovereignty of nations over the authority of a federal super state.

    I agree with you, but they won't allow that to happen because it muddies the water. Things become more complex. It's not just a case of bigots and racists, but rational human beings drawing logical conclusions.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    George was standing in front of David Cameron, just as Theresa May
    snapped her heels and kicked him........... ;)
  • SpectreNumberTwoSpectreNumberTwo
    Posts: 389
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    At least we know Dave is alive.

    Where's poor old George?

    Someone go and check his garage. I think I can hear the engine running.

    Yes but George is so incompitant he'd probaly have an electric car.... :D
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I also think that the Undead, can't technically die ? :P
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    SpectreNumberTwo wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    At least we know Dave is alive.

    Where's poor old George?

    Someone go and check his garage. I think I can hear the engine running.

    Yes but George is so incompitant he'd probaly have an electric car.... :D

    Oh very good.

    But all joking aside and assuming he hasn't jumped off Beachy Head where is he?

    The FTSE dropped a shit load, the pound fell off a cliff and the economy is in turmoil! I've heard plenty from Mark Carney but where is the Chancellor of the fucking Exchequer for the government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

    If you haven't done a Dr David Kelly no need to hand your resignation in mate because you are sacked for dereliction of duty.

    At least dozy Dave had the good grace to announce he was going on telly rather than do his job of leading the country. This gutless clown hasn't even got the bottle to do a Keegan and resign in the bogs. And he seriously thought he had what it takes to be PM?

    'George, Putin's just launched all his missiles at us what should we do?'

    'Time for a sharp exit, time for a cool sharp Harp!' (One for those who remember the 80s there)

    Just leaves a smoking metaphor for his career spinning on the floor behind him as he exits stage left: OUTATIME.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    @thunderpussy will find the first paragraph of this amusing I think - his kind of humour!

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2016/06/anarchy-uk
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    That makes a lot of sense @Getafix they didn't follow Q's advice
    " Always have an escape plan "
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    An Irish friend of mine described looking on from outside like an extended episode of The Thick of It
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Yes, that about sums it up. It would be hilarious if it wasn't all so serious.
    It's a farce !
    It's like Britain facing WW2, and Churchill, pulling a strop and storming off.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Yup
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    At this moment I'm reminded of another of dear Q's pearls of wisdom:

    "Never let them see you bleed"
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Maybe that's what Osborne's doing. ;) A bit of self-harming behind doors.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Getafix wrote: »
    @thunderpussy will find the first paragraph of this amusing I think - his kind of humour!

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2016/06/anarchy-uk

    Brilliant.

    Cameron 'Why should I do all the hard shit?'

    Err cos that's sort of the f**king job you useless c**t!

    If it was all kissing babies and appearing at the cup final we could have got Alan Titchmarsh to do it. Actually has anyone got Titch's number? Can't do any worse can he?

    Even if Brexit sends us into a 30s style depression it was worth it to oust comedians like this who think being PM should be as taxing as appearing on Strictly.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    It's not a point of who's right or wrong. If you are the guy in charge, then take charge.
    Lead your country, show some leadership ! As the old poster said " Your country needs
    You !" As The Wiz pointed out, It's your F*cking job !
    Imagine a surgeon walking out of an operation because it became difficult. Shame on
    David Cameron. :(
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited June 2016 Posts: 11,425
    I may be being too generous but there has to be an element of people working stuff out behind the scenes.

    As Brexit freely admit, they have no plan and no idea what leaving the EU actually means.

    My prediction is that Boris (a true member of the establishment if there ever was one) is going to attempt the most almighty fudge.

    As Boris is well known as being very pro EU in private, and almost certainly didn't want this result, he will be pondering how best to essentially keep us in while making a token gesture of leaving.

    It's hard to think of any arrangement that can please all sides and he's going to be doing major rowing back on pretty much every pledge the Leave campaign made - from immigration, to the UK's contribution to the EU.

    The big challenge for Boris is probably going to be getting anything through Westminster. The majority of MPs know leaving is national suicide so they will be looking for a Norway type option, which will be near impossible to get, and which large swathes of Leave voters will find totally unpalatable.

    The prospect of the most almighty establishment stitch up is one that I am sure @Wizard relishes!

This discussion has been closed.