What Directors Should Helm A Bond Film?

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  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 9,332
    I saw some people throwing shade at Edgar Wright in another thread and thought it was appropriate to move the discussion here. Ever since Martin Campbell we've seen every subsequent director talk about wanting to get inside Bonds head and explore the depths of the character, and I think the problem with that is that as soon as something like that because assumed or taken for granted, then by definition it becomes a constraint on creativity. Because it is now seen as essential that Bond must be explored on a emotional and psychological level, the attempts to inserts those elements begin to appear less and less convincing, or in other words they start to stand out more. I've said it many times, but SP would have worked better and be remembered more fondly if it had been a simple mission based adventure about Bond uncovering SPECTRE and falling in love. Forcing in a "going rogue" plotline and more trust issues between Bond and M was not necessary and didn't add anything, the discussions between denbigh and M could've been one scene and not through the film, and the less said about bro-feld the better IMO. All of these are attempts to add dimension and increase the personal and real world stakes, but IMO all they do is take away from what could have been a fun little romp of a movie. I think placing the personal drama of primary importance is what has backfired with the last few films and is likely to continue as long as they keep this up. If you look at the Indiana Jones films, those show how you can have some level of personal stakes, but also balance it with lightness so that you don't lose sight the spectacle. Indiana Jones has a character arc, but it's subtle and woven into the story, just like early Bond films such as TSWLM. By placing the characters angst at the forefront it really gets in the way of so many elements and it should only be done in specific circumstances, not as a rule. Someone like Edgar Wright would be able to tap into making a Bond film being about simple pleasures again rather than grasping for sincere expression of the soul. It's perfectly fine and at this point it would be very refreshing to have just one film that wasn't grasping for anything refined and was just about pure cinematic indulgence. Even the most refined of palettes has a soft spot for a bit of slight silliness and effervescent fun.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 2,203
    I'm happy we got a much more talented and successful director for B26. Wright has 2.5 good movies to his name.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 9,332
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I'm happy we got a much more talented and successful director for B26. Wright has 2.5 good movies to his name.

    Even if that's correct, if those 2 movies represent a refreshing change of pace, then I say it's very worth considering him.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 2,203
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I'm happy we got a much more talented and successful director for B26. Wright has 2.5 good movies to his name.

    Even if that's correct, if those 2 movies represent a refreshing change of pace, then I say it's very worth considering him.

    2 of those 2.5 were co-written by Simon Pegg, so I still don't really see a vision of Wright's Bond that isn't all surface jokes and Fourth-wall breaking crap.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited 1:03pm Posts: 2,953
    LucknFate wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I'm happy we got a much more talented and successful director for B26. Wright has 2.5 good movies to his name.

    Even if that's correct, if those 2 movies represent a refreshing change of pace, then I say it's very worth considering him.

    2 of those 2.5 were co-written by Simon Pegg, so I still don't really see a vision of Wright's Bond that isn't all surface jokes and Fourth-wall breaking crap.

    @LucknFate You've said it all. I couldn't agree more. Why would I want an ultra-playful director like Wright near Bond? I enjoy Wright's films with an ice cream. But he's clearly not Bond material. I'm really surprised @Mendes4Lyfe who wants the best for James Bond, wants a director like that...Wow!
  • Posts: 8,593
    They can do a lot better than Edgar Wright!
  • Posts: 453
    LucknFate wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I'm happy we got a much more talented and successful director for B26. Wright has 2.5 good movies to his name.

    Even if that's correct, if those 2 movies represent a refreshing change of pace, then I say it's very worth considering him.

    2 of those 2.5 were co-written by Simon Pegg, so I still don't really see a vision of Wright's Bond that isn't all surface jokes and Fourth-wall breaking crap.

    I know this forum loves to hate on Edgar Wright but this is just incorrect.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 9,332
    The point of my argument is that we have done the psychological and deep explorations enough times, Bond needs someone who will put a focus on the simple indulgence and adventuring and spectacle of super-spy, at least once. Simply because then when go back to the darker Bond it will feel fresh again.

    You can say that Villeneuve is more talented, and rightfully so, but he's also in a similar mold to other recent directors and every so often there needs to be a change of course.
  • Posts: 6,179
    I think with Wright you wouldn't get any dramatic sacrifice with Bond's character. I don't think he'd set out to make him one dimensional or downplay any dramatic opportunities.

    I think it's tempting to want to see wha hypotheticalt directors will bring to Bond based on our preferences, but in practice it might not be the case. I have my own issues with Wright as a director, and I don't see anything interesting he'd bring to Bond.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited 2:16pm Posts: 9,332
    007HallY wrote: »
    I think with Wright you wouldn't get any dramatic sacrifice with Bond's character. I don't think he'd set out to make him one dimensional or downplay any dramatic opportunities.

    I think it's tempting to want to see wha hypotheticalt directors will bring to Bond based on our preferences, but in practice it might not be the case. I have my own issues with Wright as a director, and I don't see anything interesting he'd bring to Bond.

    But it wouldn't have to be one-dimensional just not have the psychological aspect being foregrounded and made the central focus.

    For instance, in The Last Crusade Indiana Jones could not be described as one dimensional, we see in his interactions with his father that they don't see eye to eye, and it was hard on him to grow up with such a distant father, but at the same time the gravity of that doesn't supplant the overall light and adventuring tone of the quest for the grail. I don't know why people always compare something having a fun tone with being worthless when there's so many examples of classic movies that can both be playful AND keep an audience invested emotionally. Forget about Wright, that's just my suggestion, but it can be anyone in that mold. Basically I say that we've had enough takes of trying to see underneath the character at his core, and doing something enough times eventually it becomes tired and stale. In any creative enterprise you have to stay ahead of your audience, otherwise you won't keep people engaged for long.
  • Posts: 6,179
    007HallY wrote: »
    I think with Wright you wouldn't get any dramatic sacrifice with Bond's character. I don't think he'd set out to make him one dimensional or downplay any dramatic opportunities.

    I think it's tempting to want to see wha hypotheticalt directors will bring to Bond based on our preferences, but in practice it might not be the case. I have my own issues with Wright as a director, and I don't see anything interesting he'd bring to Bond.

    But it wouldn't have to be one-dimensional just not have the psychological aspect being foregrounded and made the central focus.

    For instance, in The Last Crusade Indiana Jones could not be described as one dimensional, we see in his interactions with his father that they don't see eye to eye, and it was hard on him to grow up with such a distant father, but at the same time the gravity of that doesn't supplant the overall light and adventuring tone of the quest for the grail. I don't know why people always compare something having a fun tone with being worthless when there's so many examples of classic movies that can both be playful AND keep an audience invested emotionally. Forget about Wright, that's just my suggestion, but it can be anyone in that mold. Basically I say that we've had enough takes of trying to see underneath the character at his core, and doing something enough times eventually it becomes tired and stale. In any creative enterprise you have to stay ahead of your audience, otherwise you won't keep people engaged for long.

    I think when people write these films they just focus on what's most interesting in terms of character and how to tell a story. However well that works out depends, and it's subjective to a point, but I think that's generally the approach, whoever's directing.

    I think a big part of creating any Bond film is making it fun and exciting too. All Bond films are I'd say. Just that their stories and the approach to them can differ (ie. it can more espionage orientated like FRWL, or bigger and more outlandish like MR). It's tricky to say exactly what could work without getting into specifics in that sense.
  • edited 2:29pm Posts: 2,488
    Wright could make a self-parody Bond film, a lighthearted one with a few dramatic scenes. Nothing really new, and it would be appropriate these days. Something like the new Superman movie.

    But... that's clearly not the direction they've chosen.



  • Posts: 8,593
    Personally I'm not hating on Wright. Love the comedy trilogy he did, but it was mostly down to the humour and characters, never really impressed me as a director! And I'm not a huge fan of Villeneuve either, I think his style is little too dour for Bond, but he certainly a better pick than Wright, director wise as regards actual direction! But he was never my choice!
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited 2:39pm Posts: 9,332
    Wright could make a self-parody Bond film, a lighthearted one with a few dramatic scenes. Nothing really new, and it would be appropriate these days. Something like the new Superman movie.

    But... that's clearly not the direction they've chosen.



    I dunno, maybe I'm an outdated fan but going around the same merry-go-round of trust issues and "the shadows" and going rogue is getting played out at this point. There's just nothing clever or original about it anymore. If that's all that Bond is going to be, then I guess me and many fans of my ilk will have little reason to stick around in a few years. Bond is capable of being played as a morose, grounded figure but he's also capable of being played with bravado and a wry smile. I think every so often you have to be keep things fresh and keep the audience guessing.
  • Posts: 8,593
    Well, the proof is in the pudding! If Villeneuves Bond film isn't received well, then they may go your direction for a lighter tone, but he is favoured by critics, and I've no doubt he will do something interesting! So let's wait and see. Pre production cant come quick enough. Can't wait to see who he hires in his team, and casting decisions.
  • Posts: 6,179
    Wright could make a self-parody Bond film, a lighthearted one with a few dramatic scenes. Nothing really new, and it would be appropriate these days. Something like the new Superman movie.

    But... that's clearly not the direction they've chosen.



    I dunno, maybe I'm an outdated fan but going around the same merry-go-round of trust issues and "the shadows" and going rogue is getting played out at this point. There's just nothing clever or original about it anymore. If that's all that Bond is going to be, then I guess me and many fans of my ilk will have little reason to stick around in a few years. Bond is capable of being played as a morose, grounded figure but he's also capable of being played with bravado and a wry smile. I think every so often you have to be keep things fresh and keep the audience guessing.

    Sounds like Craig's Bond if I'm honest...

    I'm sure it'll be fine. I think the next film will be different enough from the last three, and it's a new era anyway.
    Wright could make a self-parody Bond film, a lighthearted one with a few dramatic scenes. Nothing really new, and it would be appropriate these days. Something like the new Superman movie.

    But... that's clearly not the direction they've chosen.



    No, and I think it'd be an odd route for Bond to have gone in now, even considering how different Superman and Bond are.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 9,332
    007HallY wrote: »
    Wright could make a self-parody Bond film, a lighthearted one with a few dramatic scenes. Nothing really new, and it would be appropriate these days. Something like the new Superman movie.

    But... that's clearly not the direction they've chosen.



    I dunno, maybe I'm an outdated fan but going around the same merry-go-round of trust issues and "the shadows" and going rogue is getting played out at this point. There's just nothing clever or original about it anymore. If that's all that Bond is going to be, then I guess me and many fans of my ilk will have little reason to stick around in a few years. Bond is capable of being played as a morose, grounded figure but he's also capable of being played with bravado and a wry smile. I think every so often you have to be keep things fresh and keep the audience guessing.

    Sounds like Craig's Bond if I'm honest...

    I'm sure it'll be fine. I think the next film will be different enough from the last three, and it's a new era anyway.
    Wright could make a self-parody Bond film, a lighthearted one with a few dramatic scenes. Nothing really new, and it would be appropriate these days. Something like the new Superman movie.

    But... that's clearly not the direction they've chosen.



    No, and I think it'd be an odd route for Bond to have gone in now, even considering how different Superman and Bond are.

    Why is it an odd route to go in?
  • edited 3:13pm Posts: 6,179
    007HallY wrote: »
    Wright could make a self-parody Bond film, a lighthearted one with a few dramatic scenes. Nothing really new, and it would be appropriate these days. Something like the new Superman movie.

    But... that's clearly not the direction they've chosen.



    I dunno, maybe I'm an outdated fan but going around the same merry-go-round of trust issues and "the shadows" and going rogue is getting played out at this point. There's just nothing clever or original about it anymore. If that's all that Bond is going to be, then I guess me and many fans of my ilk will have little reason to stick around in a few years. Bond is capable of being played as a morose, grounded figure but he's also capable of being played with bravado and a wry smile. I think every so often you have to be keep things fresh and keep the audience guessing.

    Sounds like Craig's Bond if I'm honest...

    I'm sure it'll be fine. I think the next film will be different enough from the last three, and it's a new era anyway.
    Wright could make a self-parody Bond film, a lighthearted one with a few dramatic scenes. Nothing really new, and it would be appropriate these days. Something like the new Superman movie.

    But... that's clearly not the direction they've chosen.



    No, and I think it'd be an odd route for Bond to have gone in now, even considering how different Superman and Bond are.

    Why is it an odd route to go in?

    I don't think there'd be any need or the right circumstances to go in that creative direction. The last era was generally well received and even praised for bringing maturity to Bond. But it still managed to give us a good bit of fun, outlandishness, and many of the good old tropes of classic Bond films by its last ones. It's like I always say, I don't think this is a course correction film even under Amazon. It's a fresh start that'll be different, but it can build on what came before to do its own thing. They can even be quite bold potentially and take some creative risks.

    Superman I can understand needing a course correction even if just to distinguish it from the Snyder films (I probably view Man of Steel how some people misremember the Craig films - ie. a bit too dark and depressing). Superman also isn't quite as big a character internationally compared to Bond (and is quite different anyway), so they probably felt it best to go 'back to basics' with that lighter tone. I think Bond 26 is more akin to The Batman coming after the Christopher Nolan films in its own way.
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