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Which Bonds have the fewest Plot Holes?

chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
in Bond Movies Posts: 17,687
Since SF & SP came out the term 'plot hole' has been making me tired due to over-use. Can we discuss here which Bonds have the tightest stories with the fewest of those nasty things?
Since I'm the OP, I get the first easy three- DN, FRWL & GF! :D The ground was hit running with these, and they're still about the best IMHO.
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Comments

  • Problem_EliminatorProblem_Eliminator Ojai, CA
    Posts: 613
    LTK can't have that many I would think.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Problem_Eliminator wrote: »
    LTK can't have that many I would think.
    I agree. And to that I add TLD.

  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    GF has a couple; SF is chock full of them; DAF is so full of holes that train wreck can't hold jello;

    Less plot holes? OP, FYE, both of Dalton's films...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    GF has a couple
    Nothing major though I think...
    "OHMSS69 wrote:
    Less plot holes? OP, FYEO, both of Dalton's films...
    Yes, OP & FYEO have pretty tight stories regardless of some goofy moments added in. Of course, Dalton's movies are my shrines of Bond. :))
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,962
    To add to this topic, given enough time, are significant plot holes acceptable? Sometimes I'm amazed at watching a movie that could remedy the flaw. often, with a single line of dialog.
  • timmertimmer
    edited December 2015 Posts: 4,622
    I of the opinion that none of the films have plot holes .
    I can make sense of all of them, even SF.
    You just have to watch them a lot.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,962
    timmer wrote: »
    I of the opinion that none of the films have plot holes .
    I can make sense of all of them, even SF.
    You just have to watch them a lot.

    This can be either making sense or rationalizing.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    talos7 wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    I of the opinion that none of the films have plot holes .
    I can make sense of all of them, even SF.
    You just have to watch them a lot.

    This can be either making sense or rationalizing.
    As long as it helps you enjoy the film more.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,962
    I agree, but it's one thing to intentionally leave certain elements open ended and for the viewer to fill in the blanks; it's another to be sloppy.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    talos7 wrote: »
    I agree, but it's one thing to intentionally leave certain elements open ended and for the viewer to fill in the blanks; it's another to be sloppy.

    Okay, here's my list of Tight, Loose & Sloppy:
    DN- T
    FRWL- T
    GF- L
    TB- L
    YOLT- S
    OHMSS- T
    DAF- S
    LALD- L
    TMWTGG- L
    TSWLM- L
    MR- S
    FYEO- T
    OP- T
    AVTAK- T/L
    TLD- T
    LTK- T
    GE- T
    TND- T/L
    TWINE- L
    DAD- L (before you chastise me, the story wasn't bad; the production/execution was Sloppy)
    CR- T
    QOS- T (maybe a little TOO tight)
    SF- S
    SP- L/S
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,962
    Good list!
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    talos7 wrote: »
    To add to this topic, given enough time, are significant plot holes acceptable? Sometimes I'm amazed at watching a movie that could remedy the flaw. often, with a single line of dialog.

    In all honesty.......?

    I think SF has proven outside the fan community how little people give about plot holes. What counts for me is: How much impact -emotionally- a movie has on first viewing. So that makes this topic way more relevant for those who (over-)analize the movies after an incredible amount of rewatches.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,962
    In all honesty....? Yes
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2015 Posts: 17,687
    Yeah, the general public seems to want to laugh or cry- anything in between less extreme, and we live in an extreme world now (ha ha, like we haven't all along).
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Birdleson wrote: »
    a little too kind to the Brosnan films
    I DO like his Bond....
    :-??
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited December 2015 Posts: 16,330
    Birdleson wrote: »
    a little too kind to the Brosnan films
    He needs more love around here!

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Murdock wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    a little too kind to the Brosnan films
    He needs more love around here!

    You know it.
  • gkleingklein
    Posts: 154
    While CR might have been a good movie, there's no way I can see its story as tight. Why did Bond even need to beat LeChiffre at cards instead of just kidnapping & threatening him with prison to get the information. After all, Bond did exactly this to Mr. White in the same darn movie (carrying over to Quantum of Solace)!

    I understand that the move was all about the card game, but for pete's sake, at least come-up w/a bloody reason in the plot why Le Chiffre cant' simply be kidnapped. Don't just ignore it! The entire move was centered around this huge plot hole!

    Then there are the secondary villains who attack Le Chiffre in his hotel room during a break from playing cards. They're pissed at him for gambling with their money. What do they do? They threaten to cut-off his girlfriend's arm! They tell him they'd take his arm but they need him to win! Why would they attack him, rattling the hell out of him, in the MIDDLE of the card game (instead of waiting til after) if they needed him to win!? Could anyone concentrate & have the focus to win a card game after that?

    Then they attack Bond in the hotel -- no worries that anyone will hear the fighting in the hallway where they attempt to hack Bond with a machette (or that security cameras will pick it up).

    Then there's Vesper who shows no signs of the trauma she's supposedly experiencing for the most of the movie but seems quite happy go lucky.

    I'm sorry but, while its plot holes are not nearly as bad as SF's, there's no way CR is a tight story.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2015 Posts: 4,399
    .
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Connery's first two didn't really have plot holes - Goldfinger had quite a few, which is why it's not number one for me. Thunderball and You Only Live Twice have their share, but it's Diamonds Are Forever which descends into outright terrible.

    On Her Majesty's Secret Service doesn't really have plot holes, but it has one of the most unconvincing plots ever and the pacing is terrible.

    Moonraker obviously has an immensely unrealistic plot, but if I can recall correctly, it didn't really have too many plot holes itself. If anything, The Spy Who Loved Me had more plot holes. Moore's last three probably had the least plot holes.

    The Living Daylights doesn't really have plot holes, but it has some of the most unconvincing near-death misses in Bond.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2015 Posts: 4,399
    .
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2015 Posts: 4,399
    .
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Lest we forget, life has plot holes. Film , as with life I guess, is about balance. Sometimes you just have to go with what works dramatically or artistically at the expense of water-tight logic.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,816
    Don't we consider too often plot holes what is often truly a trope of Bond movie or even the genre in general?
  • timmertimmer
    edited December 2015 Posts: 4,622
    RC7 wrote: »
    Lest we forget, life has plot holes. Film , as with life I guess, is about balance. Sometimes you just have to go with what works dramatically or artistically at the expense of water-tight logic.
    Yes of course, and Re CR, since when do criminals and thugs react rationally and clinically. Jails are full of bad asses who are caught and caged because of their brash behaviour.
    Obanno leaned into Le Chiffre because he was pissed that this fancy ass Frenchman had gambled away all his hard earned illegal spoils.
    He wanted to kill him real bad. It took big self-control not to kill him but grudgingly let him live.
    The message to Le Chiffre was clear. You are only still alive due to a technicality. In thug world, one must always be flexing one's muscle.

    The reason why Bond does not simply kidnap and kill Le Chiffre is not remotely a plot hole. It's taken right from the original Fleming story. The idea is to truly bankrupt Le Chiffre, who has an exploitable gambling vice, so that he is rendered useless and exposed to his employers, who will then thuggishly kill him, leaving him nowhere to turn but to the good guys, who can then exploit him for their own purposes.


  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,958
    It's not my favorite but I think LTK has the fewest plot holes.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    echo wrote: »
    It's not my favorite but I think LTK has the fewest plot holes.
    Well, it IS my (co)favourite so I will agree with ya!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    DN, FRWL, FYEO, OP, LTK, CR, & QoS come to mind without thinking too much about it at this moment. I'll see if I can come up with a few more.
  • timmertimmer
    edited December 2015 Posts: 4,622
    I think all 24 films are tied for virtually no plot holes.
    SF is probably the toughest to explain in parts, but even it is fathomable.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    timmer wrote: »
    I think all 24 films are tied for virtually no plot holes.
    SF is probably the toughest to explain in parts, but even it is fathomable.
    Your generosity amazes me. But, in light of SPECTRE I will agree!
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