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TMWTGG is a proper Bond film?

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  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    ThomasCrown76 wrote: »
    It's a classically bad film. They tried really hard to toughen up roger Moore as bond, but it just never worked. Moore was never a tough guy and never looked convincing with a gun or hitting anyone. The man had as much business playing James Bond as jerry Lewis would playing mike hammer.
    I'm not a fan of manciewicz. He gets a few lines of dialogue off, but his script for diamonds was a disaster. Live and let die wasn't much better. This movie nosedives into the ground.
    No ones heart was in this movie behind the scenes. You do have a great performance by Christopher lee, but that's it. I love the scores of John Barry, but even he admits this one didn't work for him.
    It would be 13 more years before James Bond was able to be relevant again

    Agreed. It seems at the time because Manc wrote a few witty lines that was enough for a Bond film. Plotting and character seemed to be left out of it. The Hamilton/Manciewicz team were responsible for some of the worst Bond movie experiences!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited July 2015 Posts: 11,189
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    Roger%20Moore%20og%20Britt%20Ekland%20i%20The%20Man%20with%20the%20Golden%20Gun

    That's the sort of silly shot that opens itself to parody. It's not hard to imagine Leslie Nielsen in place of RM.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2015 Posts: 15,690
    Whether you love or hate Moore as Bond, you have to realise that without him, the franchise would not have made it beyond the end of the 1970's. He not only proved it was possible to make Bond films without Connery, but that it was possible to make hugely popular and successful outings without Connery. So Moore's contribution to the franchise is immense. Dalton, Brosnan and Craig would never have been James Bond without Sir Rog keeping the franchise alive and successful.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited July 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Sir Rog is a legend. My favourite performances are actually his later ones though. spy and OP in particular.

    100% agree that without Sit Rog EON probably wouldn't still be making Bond movies.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    Roger%20Moore%20og%20Britt%20Ekland%20i%20The%20Man%20with%20the%20Golden%20Gun

    That's the sort of silly shot that opens itself to parody. It's not hard to imagine Leslie Nielsen in place of RM.

    I thought Kissy prancing around in her bikini in the middle of a shoot out in the volcano lair was far more silly.

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited July 2015 Posts: 11,189
    But it is \
    MayDayDiVicenzo wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    Roger%20Moore%20og%20Britt%20Ekland%20i%20The%20Man%20with%20the%20Golden%20Gun

    That's the sort of silly shot that opens itself to parody. It's not hard to imagine Leslie Nielsen in place of RM.

    I thought Kissy prancing around in her bikini in the middle of a shoot out in the volcano lair was far more silly.

    Yeah, that's pretty silly :p

    Nonetheless I think the often criticised YOLT, though flawed, is far superior as a Bond film thanks to the energetic pacing and colourful cinematography.

    My issue with GG is that it seems like it's going through the motions much of the time.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,834
    TMWTGG is the Bond movie towards which I have the most ambivalent feelings. So many things I dislike about it: the messy plot, the comedic elements far too present, the silliness, etc. On the other hand, it is one of my favourite Moore's performance and I find him far better when he was still finding his feet than after in his far more popular TSWLM, Christopher Lee is amazing and it is the last Bond movie with a true b movie charm.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,331
    I love Roger and his films, but for me TMWTGG was the weakest of the bunch. But it's mainly because of Goodnight's stupidity and random contrived sequences and JW Pepper's reappearance. Moore and Lee's performances save the film as well as Barry's creepy score. With a good solid rewrite and completely removing the Solex plot, it would have been a far better film.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited July 2015 Posts: 11,189
    "Move it you little pointy-heads, I'm a Pweesh Officer"

    And some people say all the Brosnan films are worse @-)
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited July 2015 Posts: 13,894
    "Gard dam, i'm gonna git Henry Kissinger on yar ass. Now look at me when ahm talkin' to ya boi."


    Ah, J. Dubya Pepper. That... goldmine of comedy. ;)
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    He really annoys me in GG
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,564
    TMWTGG (the novel) bears very little resemblance to TGWTGG (the movie.) Aside from the character name Scaramanga and his circus elephant origin story (and of course the fact the he owns and uses a golden gun) the plots diverge wildly from the very first scene in the movie. One should be very careful about assumptions, we all know what they lead to...
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited July 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Which makes it all the more interesting that large elements of SKYFALL are essentially lifted from the movie of TMWTGG. It's been sort of done before, with the endless remakes of YOLT, but it's not something that is widely acknowledged about SF.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,834
    SF owes far more to the novel than the movie TMWTGG. Bond's death and disappearance, the Hispanic origins of the villain, his appearance (to a degree), the mention of Bond's Scottish background, M being the object of a murderous attempt, heck we know in the novel that Messervy's predecessor was the victim of a murder just like what happens to M in...
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited July 2015 Posts: 11,425


    A fair review in many ways. Like you say, totally daft, but far too enjoyable to dismiss out of hand.

    Is it worth pointing out that the fun house hall of mirrors scenes are lifted straight from Orson Welles' The Lady from Shanghai (1947). I love the way the early Bonds so unashamedly 'borrow' from classic movies.

    We had a small Third Man reference in TLD. I would have loved it if Mendes had gone a step further and included a chase through the London sewers in Skyfall. A missed opportunity IMO.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    It's been a while since I read the novel but the general ideas of Bond's resurrection, Scaramanga's homosexuality, and Bond shooting the pineapple off the dancer's head all seem to have made it to the screen in SF.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    So what's the consensus? SF owes more to TMWTGG novel or the movie?
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,834
    Getafix wrote: »
    So what's the consensus? SF owes more to TMWTGG novel or the movie?

    I'd say the novel easily. And two other novels: YOLT and MR.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,834
    Oh and let's not forget that Bond also uses a a target on a woman's head in the novel, the Bond girl trope is more peripheral than usual just like in SF and the Bond girl is also used to torment Bond. Furthermore, both Silva and Scaramanga are mercenaries, one as a hacker, the other as an assassin.

    Something the movie TMWTGG never really developed and that was a unique and fascinating aspect of the novel is that the main villain is in fact a henchman.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    TMWTGG film is nothing like the novel at all. Plot and locations are all different. Only the names of some characters are used.. Good night and Scaramanga
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    so the whole Skyfall thing of Bond tracking down the villain via the bullet, going to Macau, and the sacrificial lamb Severine character being used to lure Bond in are all lifted from the movie?
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited July 2015 Posts: 14,834
    Getafix wrote: »
    so the whole Skyfall thing of Bond tracking down the villain via the bullet, going to Macau, and the sacrificial lamb Severine character being used to lure Bond in are all lifted from the movie?

    Read the novel. Sacrificial lambs are not exclusive to TMWTGG, inside or outside the Bond franchise. In the novel, you have Bond using something on a woman's head as shooting target and Mary Goodnight
    (or rather a mannequin meant to look like her)
    is used by Scaramanga to trick Bond. There are many, many, many elements from the novel, as well as YOLT and FAVTAK that are used in SF.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited July 2015 Posts: 11,425
    I probably should do. It's just when I rewatched GG recently, I was struck by all the similarities with SF and the Maud Adams character is clearly very similar to Severine. Doesn't Scaramanga even have a boat waiting in the harbour which Maud/Severine lures Bond to as a way of getting him to the island so that (the girl hopes) Bond will kill the villain? It's practically the same story up to the point they reAch the Island. And that's the strongest part of SF.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,834
    I think Séverine is freely inspired by some of the women featured in the TMWTGG novel, while Bond's interaction with Eve is freely inspired with the one he has with Mary Goodnight. The whole revenge mission to kill Scaramanga in the big is far closer to SF than the one they gave in the "direct" adaptation.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I forgot about the Eve/goodnight parallels.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited July 2015 Posts: 14,834
    Well, in the movies Moneypenny took over the roles of pretty much every secretary from the novels, so it kind of makes sense. When Goodnight came up in the movies, she had already been vampirized, which might explain why they turned her into a ditz.
  • Pierce2DanielPierce2Daniel
    Posts: 4,400
    TMWTGG is such an underrated classic...it has:
    • One of the best villains
    • Roger Moore's best performance as 007
    • An eccentric henchman
    • Brilliant locations
    • It's funny!
    • and Britt Eckland in a bikini

    the-man-with-the-golden-gun-369.png
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited April 2020 Posts: 17,293
    I have few issues with TMWTGG personally. In fact, I think it's a gem of a film, and that it's very underrated. It also includes one of my favourite scenes of the entire franchise:

  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 6,820
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    I have few issues with TMWTGG personally. In fact, I think it's a gem of a film, and that it's very underrated. It also includes one of my favourite scenes of the entire franchise:


    Without a doubt. Great scene, with one of the best one-liners!
    I have become to appreciate it a lot more over the years! And Scaramanga is indeed a classic villain!
    It lacks one decent action set piece though, and the final duel could hav e been more visual interesting!
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,790
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    TMWTGG is such an underrated classic...it has:
    • One of the best villains
    • Roger Moore's best performance as 007
    • An eccentric henchman
    • Brilliant locations
    • It's funny!
    • and Britt Eckland in a bikini

    the-man-with-the-golden-gun-369.png

    Agreed. It also has stellar production design by Peter Murton and beautiful cinematography by Ted Moore and Oswald Morris. And let's not forget about Maud Adams!
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