Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2022 Posts: 5,921
    While I think the new M, Q, and Moneypenny worked out nicely in the end, I am ready for a clean slate the likes we have not seen since CR.

    And maybe this time there'll be a long-term plan. Eon might want to ask Waller-Bridge and/or Fukunaga to bring some of their TV arc planning skills to the next set of films.

    Even a vague plan--say, setting a goal in Bond 26 to do the TMWTGG opening for Bond 29 (or Bond 30, if the actor stays on) would be preferable to Eon just making things up as they go along.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 2,161
    We've never had a Clean Slate. At least one actor has always continued in their role in the ensuing film. It's the one tradition that they've held. It would be a shame to end taht now.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2022 Posts: 5,921
    I think it's time. Hire a strong director and cast confidently.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    mtm wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I suppose in 1983 audiences weren't baffled by the new Moneypenny, M and Q in NSNA when only four months earlier they had just seen OP.

    Very good point. I think audiences are smarter than most people think and get that this is all made up. Or rather: they don’t care that much. Is Roger’s Bond the same man as Sean’s Bond? It doesn’t matter.

    Or that Craig's Bond in CR isn't the same Bond that just ice surfed a glacier in the previous films. People are aware of continuity and reboots.

    Well that’s not an ‘or’: that’s exactly what I said: audiences are smarter than some give them credit for.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I suppose in 1983 audiences weren't baffled by the new Moneypenny, M and Q in NSNA when only four months earlier they had just seen OP.

    Very good point. I think audiences are smarter than most people think and get that this is all made up. Or rather: they don’t care that much. Is Roger’s Bond the same man as Sean’s Bond? It doesn’t matter.

    Or that Craig's Bond in CR isn't the same Bond that just ice surfed a glacier in the previous films. People are aware of continuity and reboots.

    Well that’s not an ‘or’: that’s exactly what I said: audiences are smarter than some give them credit for.

    I think he was just agreeing with you by offering another example.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I suppose in 1983 audiences weren't baffled by the new Moneypenny, M and Q in NSNA when only four months earlier they had just seen OP.

    Very good point. I think audiences are smarter than most people think and get that this is all made up. Or rather: they don’t care that much. Is Roger’s Bond the same man as Sean’s Bond? It doesn’t matter.

    Or that Craig's Bond in CR isn't the same Bond that just ice surfed a glacier in the previous films. People are aware of continuity and reboots.

    Well that’s not an ‘or’: that’s exactly what I said: audiences are smarter than some give them credit for.

    I think he was just agreeing with you by offering another example.

    I was.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited January 2022 Posts: 7,890
    Birdleson wrote: »
    We've never had a Clean Slate. At least one actor has always continued in their role in the ensuing film. It's the one tradition that they've held. It would be a shame to end taht now.

    True, to a point; Judi Dench did play M but it is not the same character that she played in CR.

    I still contend that , while muddy because of returning actors, Dalton was the beginning of a “ universe “ separate from that of Connery, Lazenby and Moore.
    Bond films are always set in the present, because of age Dalton’s Bond could not be the same as his predecessors. Sean, George and Roger are the same Bond. Timothy and Pierce are the next, then Daniel.

    For the next I want a complete clean slate with a clear vision of where they want to go.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    The current MI6 has been established as Bond’s second “family”. Previously there was no particular emotion attachment. Plus, this MI6 team buried Bond.

    A clean slate would make much more sense and Elba would make an amazing M.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,916
    matt_u wrote: »

    A clean slate would make much more sense and Elba would make an amazing M.
    That would be Dynamite.

    https://www.dynamite.com/htmlfiles/viewProduct.html?PRO=C72513026476301011
    M_%28by_Ibrahim_Moustafa%29.png

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,890
    He would!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,255
    I don’t think you can cast someone like Elba and expect him to sit behind a desk. Unless you want a more action-oriented M?

    Elba is still in his leading man years. He’s charismatic and very physical and in top shape. I can’t see him taking a role like M, unless M was more in the center of the action.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,419
    peter wrote: »
    I don’t think you can cast someone like Elba and expect him to sit behind a desk. Unless you want a more action-oriented M?

    Elba is still in his leading man years. He’s charismatic and very physical and in top shape. I can’t see him taking a role like M, unless M was more in the center of the action.

    What's the Bond-M. age gap in the books? Didn't they both serve in the war? Elba and a young 30-something would work great over a tenure.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,890
    As with Nick Fury in the Marvel films, a less desk bound leader may be something that's being considered.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,255
    talos7 wrote: »
    As with Nick Fury in the Marvel films, a less desk bound leader may be something that's being considered.

    Perhaps— that’s why I mentioned a more action-oriented M. That’s the only way I see Elba ever playing M at this point in his career. He is a leading man, and has his own production company (Green Door), that seeks out interesting leading man roles for him.

    I don’t know what EoN will do for the new Mi6 team, but do they want an action-heavy M? …
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    peter wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    As with Nick Fury in the Marvel films, a less desk bound leader may be something that's being considered.

    Perhaps— that’s why I mentioned a more action-oriented M. That’s the only way I see Elba ever playing M at this point in his career. He is a leading man, and has his own production company (Green Door), that seeks out interesting leading man roles for him.

    I don’t know what EoN will do for the new Mi6 team, but do they want an action-heavy M? …

    Task Force M.

    I'm okay with that.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,890
    I don't see Elba as Bond but understand why he's in the conversation. I definitely can see him as a suave spy. This looks interesting.

    https://variety.com/2020/film/news/idris-elba-simon-kinberg-apple-spy-romance-film-1234735319/
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,255
    I’m not bothered either way. But I do know that to grab a big player like Elba you have to dangle a satisfying carrot: sitting behind a desk and feeding exposition to 007 won’t be enough.

    But to me, I could care less so long as the film is good.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,255
    @talos7 … is that still happening? Some big bucks were traded in the bidding war but I thought I heard this was in development hell and not moving (which doesn’t mean it won’t happen… but it could be with a new cast down the line).

    Are you sure Elba is still attached? Is this still happening?

    (I hope it is since Kinberg is a great story teller (not necessarily as a director, but as a writer he’s tops))
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,890
    peter wrote: »
    @talos7 … is that still happening? Some big bucks were traded in the bidding war but I thought I heard this was in development hell and not moving (which doesn’t mean it won’t happen… but it could be with a new cast down the line).

    Are you sure Elba is still attached? Is this still happening?

    (I hope it is since Kinberg is a great story teller (not necessarily as a director, but as a writer he’s tops))

    No, I'm not sure that it is: the article is from two years ago. With the all of chatter about Idris being "in the conversation" for Bond, I would think casting him in a similar role would be a natural.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Birdleson wrote: »
    We've never had a Clean Slate. At least one actor has always continued in their role in the ensuing film. It's the one tradition that they've held. It would be a shame to end taht now.

    Except with the older films they all ended the same way, with the status quo being maintained. So it was easy just to carry over the actors because continuity wasn’t really a thing,

    Had NTTD ended with Bond still in the service, I could see the supporting cast returning for future films. But because Bond died and we last see them together in the office offering a toast to a lost comrade, it’s just gonna feel awkward (IMO) to see them return and act like it’s just business as usual. Besides, I don’t expect Whishaw and Fiennes to keep playing their roles until they suddenly drop dead like Desmond Llewelyn and Bernard Lee.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,053
    Ralph Fiennes should be allowed to continue because there’s always a holdover from before. Instead of playing Gareth Mallory, he should be playing Sir Miles Messervy. Dear EON, don’t make this a surprise that the audience sees coming. Just straight up tell us. Judi Dench gets way too much credit for continuing on. All she did was yell at him.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited January 2022 Posts: 2,895
    Fiennes is the perfect M, so I like the knowing conceit of him playing a different M with a new Bond. Hey, Dench did exactly that, so...
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited January 2022 Posts: 1,419
    Venutius wrote: »
    Fiennes is the perfect M, so I like the knowing conceit of him playing a different M with a new Bond. Hey, Dench did exactly that, so...

    I like Fiennes as an actor but I do not think he was a good M., though it was mostly the material. In Skyfall he's the affable jerk for canning Judi Dench and not being able to read the room, in SPECTRE he's hapless to stop... a political vote that leads to global terrorist action and has that awful "C." quote. In NTTD he's more of a villain than Safin and literally is directly responsible for the missiles that blow our hero up.

    I would like a new M. but I reserve all my issues with the writing, not Fiennes.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    edited January 2022 Posts: 2,161
    I'd enjoy him coming back as the traditional M that it looked like we were going to get at the close of SF.

    I don't think there is any way EON would turn down Whishaw if he deigned to reprise his role as Q, but that is the issue. If it happens, I would hope that he'd begin his next chapter as the seasoned gruff veteran, a la Llewelyn circa '63.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,053
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Fiennes is the perfect M, so I like the knowing conceit of him playing a different M with a new Bond. Hey, Dench did exactly that, so...

    I like Fiennes as an actor but I do not think he was a good M., though it was mostly the material. In Skyfall he's the affable jerk for canning Judi Dench and not being able to read the room, in SPECTRE he's hapless to stop... a political vote that leads to global terrorist action and has that awful "C." quote. In NTTD he's more of a villain than Safin and literally is directly responsible for the missiles that blow our hero up.

    I would like a new M. but I reserve all my issues with the writing, not Fiennes.

    Another reason why Purvis and Wade should go, and Ralph should stay. I give Ralph credit for fighting against Sam Mendes and John Logan for not making Mallory a villain.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited January 2022 Posts: 2,895
    Indeed. NTTD didn't serve Mallory well and, seeing as Fiennes had already refused to go the villain route in SP, I wonder if he just 'went along' as it was his last contracted film so not worth digging his heels in?
    Wishaw's Q was starting to go the trad crouchy route in NTTD - 'Pay attention', 'Don't touch that', etc. It would've been amusing watching him develop his inner Desmond!
  • Posts: 322
    peter wrote: »
    I don’t think you can cast someone like Elba and expect him to sit behind a desk. Unless you want a more action-oriented M?

    Elba is still in his leading man years. He’s charismatic and very physical and in top shape. I can’t see him taking a role like M, unless M was more in the center of the action.

    No, no, no

    M is the boss, not an agent. His job is to strategise, manage and deploy his resources into the field in compliance with government policy. Not to join them. Same with Q - he is the quartermaster in charge of equipment, a very important busy job designing and providing equipment - not to use them himself. If any of the HQ team had to venture out into the field, it could Tanner.

    007 should be a lone wolf. Linking up with other nation’s agents maybe, but not part of a team. If he must have an assistant, let him have a trainee 00.

    007 should be part of the government machine. Following orders, deploying his wide range of skills to best complete his mission. To me, what makes Connery Bond scary is the thought of a shadowy government department sending out assassins to ‘seek and destroy’, with discretion to kill as necessary. Not part of a small gang of vigilantes making it up as they go along.
  • Posts: 14,800
    Venutius wrote: »
    Fiennes is the perfect M, so I like the knowing conceit of him playing a different M with a new Bond. Hey, Dench did exactly that, so...

    I really hope Fiennes comes back too.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,890
    I like Fiennes, but he didn’t make a impact on me in the role; yes, he was very good but not irreplaceable.

    Clean slate.
  • Posts: 15,785
    I'd love Fiennes to come back. He looks more and more like an M in each Bond he's done.
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