Charteris' The Saint

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  • DragonpolDragonpol Flying round the stage like a lizard and that.
    Posts: 12,861
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    ggl007 wrote: »
    Was Leslie Charteris a relative to Ann Charteris Fleming?

    No, he was not. Charteris was not his birth name. He changed it to that by deed poll. His birth name was Charles Bowyer Yin. Ann's brother Hugo Charteris was an author though.

    Actually his birth name was Leslie Charles Bowyer-Yin.

    In that case I'm happy to stand corrected! :)
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 1,941
    Oh hello, I'm glad this thread has surfaced. Big Charteris fan here.

    I lose track a bit of which stories I've read and what books I own, but I vividly remember the first one I encountered: The Saint and Mr Teal. Loved the character and the prose style straight away.

    To my mind, he has a lot in common with Dorothy L. Sayers' Lord Peter Wimsey, whom I discovered around the same time: the hard-as-nails physique under the playful, witty exterior, the gentleman dabbling in crimefighting, and of course the hatred of injustice.
  • Oh the early iterations of the character definitely do, but one of the joys of the Saint I think was watching the character evolve.
  • Posts: 7,130
    The Saint 2017 - a new installment that is a heck better than the Andrew Clarke vehicle called the Saint in Manhattan.
    Simon Templar got a new past, something the writer Leslie Charteris steered clear from in order to keep some mystery alive, the movie shows him to be burglar/criminal which is was in the original books. He stole from the wicked and gave to the needy minus a percentage for himself of course.
    I understood that this movie had some re shoots hence the Saint wearing a beard as this was during Rayners filming of Reigned. The movie in itself is a hoot and a half love the globetrotting, decent action-scenes, not a big fan of the origin story (I suppose the Templar heritage comes in handy these days, the other two Saints Ogilvy & Moore do their part even if Roger's too short in my humble experience, perhaps Dutton also would have pooped up along a possible series that will never happen). The Sainty Theme is too subtle and the Stickman in the titles is really missed.

    A really nice but short lived return of Simon Templar. I do hope we get the next installment where he belongs in the thirties.
  • Adam was filming Tyrant, hence the beard. Not Reigned.

    And no, I wasn't a big fan of the origin story either. Did my best to stop it but (obviously) failed. Glad you liked it though.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited July 2017 Posts: 15,423
    I liked his ties to the Knights Templar a lot, though.

    Is there a chance Rayner might come back?
  • DragonpolDragonpol Flying round the stage like a lizard and that.
    Posts: 12,861
    Is the new TV pilot of The Saint based on the works of Leslie Charteris is any way?

    Just curious!
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Is the new TV pilot of The Saint based on the works of Leslie Charteris is any way?

    Just curious!
    Nope. Just an original story, featuring some of the characters from the books.
  • Posts: 7,130
    The story is undoubtedly based upon the works of Leslie Charteris but it has no resemblance of any of the Saintly output by Leslie Charteris.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Flying round the stage like a lizard and that.
    Posts: 12,861
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Is the new TV pilot of The Saint based on the works of Leslie Charteris is any way?

    Just curious!
    Nope. Just an original story, featuring some of the characters from the books.

    Thought as much. A real pity, but they seems to be the way the wind blows with the Saint for many a year.
  • Posts: 10,612
    It's amazing how in this age of action movies, The Saint hasn't been used more.
  • Posts: 7,130
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Is the new TV pilot of The Saint based on the works of Leslie Charteris is any way?

    Just curious!
    Nope. Just an original story, featuring some of the characters from the books.

    Thought as much. A real pity, but they seems to be the way the wind blows with the Saint for many a year.

    To be honest quite a few episodes from the Moore -Saint era & of course Return of the Saint era were newly written and quite entertaining so that observation is kinda moot. That said the Saints existence from is earlier in the 20th century so any update will likely be new. The tv movie is quite entertaining and does have some nice moments for fans. A a generic actioner it is quite good too.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Flying round the stage like a lizard and that.
    edited July 2017 Posts: 12,861
    No Saint expert here but I do regret the move away from the original Charteris stories and novels as the source material. That is really all that I wanted to say. I an aware that this is not a new phenomenon, of course.
  • Posts: 7,130
    Not an expert either having read all books available in English and Dutch I found all the episodes in the series based upon the original stories not always that truthful too the stories. Charteris had a sometimes far more wicked Templar that the TV show was ever allowed to portrait.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    The Templar of the books, especially in the early ones, was more like a god-like character nobody touched and was terribly biased towards the villains without taking their existence into consideration but ending them. He'd infiltrate their lairs, warn them that he'll defeat them, and the next day arrives at the scene with no flaw in his plan. Like he announced the prophecy and executed it.

    I believe Charteris addressed that, claiming he was embarrassed by the first book.
  • Posts: 10,612
    I'm no expert but do remember some of the stories being quite dark at times.
    I remember one about a new super weapon, in which The Saint was able to
    destroy the plans, but the scientist had no quams in building another. So
    one of the friends of the Saint who'd lost many friends in ww1, shot the scientist
    then himself. As he didn't want to see again the slaughter of millions with a new
    terrible weapon.
  • Posts: 7,130
    I'm no expert but do remember some of the stories being quite dark at times.
    I remember one about a new super weapon, in which The Saint was able to
    destroy the plans, but the scientist had no quams in building another. So
    one of the friends of the Saint who'd lost many friends in ww1, shot the scientist
    then himself. As he didn't want to see again the slaughter of millions with a new
    terrible weapon.

    That was "the Last Hero" which was quite good novel and showed the Saint growing up as well.

    The early Saint was a bit of a outrageous adventurer that took insane chances and beat the opposition because they were serious about their business and could not believe the Saint. I quite love the early Saint who was dark and silly alike and reading Charteris prose is still a hoot and a half.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Flying round the stage like a lizard and that.
    Posts: 12,861
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I'm no expert but do remember some of the stories being quite dark at times.
    I remember one about a new super weapon, in which The Saint was able to
    destroy the plans, but the scientist had no quams in building another. So
    one of the friends of the Saint who'd lost many friends in ww1, shot the scientist
    then himself. As he didn't want to see again the slaughter of millions with a new
    terrible weapon.

    That was "the Last Hero" which was quite good novel and showed the Saint growing up as well.

    The early Saint was a bit of a outrageous adventurer that took insane chances and beat the opposition because they were serious about their business and could not believe the Saint. I quite love the early Saint who was dark and silly alike and reading Charteris prose is still a hoot and a half.

    I think I have a modern copy of that one. It said on the back that it was an early Weapon of Mass Destruction. I think that must be the one anyway. I have most of Charteris' Saint books. I found a whole cache (40) of older editions in brilliant condition at my local Tesco charity book stand last year and bought the lot for £40.
  • Posts: 7,130
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I'm no expert but do remember some of the stories being quite dark at times.
    I remember one about a new super weapon, in which The Saint was able to
    destroy the plans, but the scientist had no quams in building another. So
    one of the friends of the Saint who'd lost many friends in ww1, shot the scientist
    then himself. As he didn't want to see again the slaughter of millions with a new
    terrible weapon.

    That was "the Last Hero" which was quite good novel and showed the Saint growing up as well.

    The early Saint was a bit of a outrageous adventurer that took insane chances and beat the opposition because they were serious about their business and could not believe the Saint. I quite love the early Saint who was dark and silly alike and reading Charteris prose is still a hoot and a half.

    I think I have a modern copy of that one. It said on the back that it was an early Weapon of Mass Destruction. I think that must be the one anyway. I have most of Charteris' Saint books. I found a whole cache (40) of older editions in brilliant condition at my local Tesco charity book stand last year and bought the lot for £40.

    Now there is an excellent buy. I have got really early editions of "the Last Hero" as wel as "Meet the tiger" which is really the earliest Saint novel and has not been re-released for a long time as it is that book that Charteris considered a bit shameful. I have really enjoyed rereading that book.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Flying round the stage like a lizard and that.
    edited July 2017 Posts: 12,861
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I'm no expert but do remember some of the stories being quite dark at times.
    I remember one about a new super weapon, in which The Saint was able to
    destroy the plans, but the scientist had no quams in building another. So
    one of the friends of the Saint who'd lost many friends in ww1, shot the scientist
    then himself. As he didn't want to see again the slaughter of millions with a new
    terrible weapon.

    That was "the Last Hero" which was quite good novel and showed the Saint growing up as well.

    The early Saint was a bit of a outrageous adventurer that took insane chances and beat the opposition because they were serious about their business and could not believe the Saint. I quite love the early Saint who was dark and silly alike and reading Charteris prose is still a hoot and a half.

    I think I have a modern copy of that one. It said on the back that it was an early Weapon of Mass Destruction. I think that must be the one anyway. I have most of Charteris' Saint books. I found a whole cache (40) of older editions in brilliant condition at my local Tesco charity book stand last year and bought the lot for £40.

    Now there is an excellent buy. I have got really early editions of "the Last Hero" as wel as "Meet the tiger" which is really the earliest Saint novel and has not been re-released for a long time as it is that book that Charteris considered a bit shameful. I have really enjoyed rereading that book.

    Yes, I thought so too. I mean I had a few Saint novels/story collections before that (way back to 1996) but I simply couldn't pass it up when I saw them. They'd just been donated I guess. I think there are still a few I need, but I now have the majority of them.

    I have Meet the Tiger too (from the Tesco 40) - albeit it a later US edition pb from I think 1980. Still, I was chuffed to get the first one! I understand he wrote four books at that time and picked The Saint as the best of the four characters he'd created and decided to run with him as a series character.
  • Posts: 7,130
    He wrote four and decided to go with the Saint which is perhaps his wisest choice. As for Claude Eustace Teal the policeman from the Scotland Yard he did actually appear in two of the initial four books and I am glad he joined the Saint series.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Flying round the stage like a lizard and that.
    Posts: 12,861
    SaintMark wrote: »
    He wrote four and decided to go with the Saint which is perhaps his wisest choice. As for Claude Eustace Teal the policeman from the Scotland Yard he did actually appear in two of the initial four books and I am glad he joined the Saint series.

    Really? Never knew that. What were the others like? I imagine they're quite rare now too.
  • Posts: 7,130
    I had all five of them an lost four to some unfortunate burglar who knew his books, X-esquire was nice, the white rider decent the Bandit a wee bit annoying and Daredevil I can no longer recall. Only the Bandit I recovered albeit in a paperback version the other Ward & Lock hardcovers are gone with the exception of Meet the Tiger which I bought later than the others.

    They were a product of their times and a wee bit like the Edgar Wallace novels only the hero's were a bit more out there.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Flying round the stage like a lizard and that.
    Posts: 12,861
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I had all five of them an lost four to some unfortunate burglar who knew his books, X-esquire was nice, the white rider decent the Bandit a wee bit annoying and Daredevil I can no longer recall. Only the Bandit I recovered albeit in a paperback version the other Ward & Lock hardcovers are gone with the exception of Meet the Tiger which I bought later than the others.

    They were a product of their times and a wee bit like the Edgar Wallace novels only the hero's were a bit more out there.

    Aww, that's a real shame. Can't believe a burglar would know of such obscure titles, but there you are! I hope it brought them no luck anyway!

    I need to get those other four books for my collection. Any copy would do, though they could be expensive!
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 1,941
    I have The White Rider in a paperback edition so cheap and nasty it won't even tell me when it was printed. Digit Books, original price 2'6.

    That was an excellent Tesco find! I have a few old hardbacks which a charity shop sold me for 5p apiece. I love them but they're in tatters.
  • Posts: 7,130
    He nicked some more stuff I had collected more older HC thrillers and some old Agatha Christies and an ancient Last of the Mohicans and some Dumas titles in English. Some of them were antiques.
    This was no accident I believe and neither did the police think so.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Flying round the stage like a lizard and that.
    Posts: 12,861
    SaintMark wrote: »
    He nicked some more stuff I had collected more older HC thrillers and some old Agatha Christies and an ancient Last of the Mohicans and some Dumas titles in English. Some of them were antiques.
    This was no accident I believe and neither did the police think so.

    That makes me really sad, and angry, you know. He clearly knew his stuff, but not a very nice thing to happen to a Saint/general book collector I'm sure.
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