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Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison Of Belief
I know that discussing religion is frowned upon on here but, even though what they believe is no more implausible than other religions, I don't consider Scientology an actual religion (more a terrifying cult), and I think this is something that deserves discussion.
I'll start of by saying that this documentary hasn't actually been shown in the UK, even though Sky Atlantic had a hand in making it, and last time I checked they were saying there was "no news yet" on whether they'd be able to show it or not, which is a shame imo.
Anyway, I watched it online last night because it's something I'm interested in (not in the sense that I'm interested in joining, f**k no, I'm interested out of curiosity) and I thought it was really good. I mean I knew that they blackmailed people and all the rest of it but the physical and mental abuse they give out, which I found out from watching this doc, is disgusting and also pretty scary (because they get away with it).
John Travolta (who the doc claims is one of many Scientology have dirt on, to use for blackmail, after secretly recording interviews when telling him they wouldn't) has addressed it and has said that he's never going to watch it (exactly what he would say) but tbh I'm more interested in what Tom Cruise has to say, he's keeping quiet at the moment which is wise given what the doc says about him but soon he'll be promoting Mission Impossible 5 (a major blockbuster, so probably lots of big media appearances) and given the allegations the documentary makes against him, he'll have to address it, and I'm interested in what he'll have to say about it. I mean he's always seemed mental but I've always assumed that he was just a publicity figure for scientology that was kept in the dark about a lot of the stuff they did, and I've always managed to separate his films and his personal life but after watching this, idk. I've lost pretty much any respect I had for him.
I really recommend watching this. Has anyone else seen it?
I'll start of by saying that this documentary hasn't actually been shown in the UK, even though Sky Atlantic had a hand in making it, and last time I checked they were saying there was "no news yet" on whether they'd be able to show it or not, which is a shame imo.
Anyway, I watched it online last night because it's something I'm interested in (not in the sense that I'm interested in joining, f**k no, I'm interested out of curiosity) and I thought it was really good. I mean I knew that they blackmailed people and all the rest of it but the physical and mental abuse they give out, which I found out from watching this doc, is disgusting and also pretty scary (because they get away with it).
John Travolta (who the doc claims is one of many Scientology have dirt on, to use for blackmail, after secretly recording interviews when telling him they wouldn't) has addressed it and has said that he's never going to watch it (exactly what he would say) but tbh I'm more interested in what Tom Cruise has to say, he's keeping quiet at the moment which is wise given what the doc says about him but soon he'll be promoting Mission Impossible 5 (a major blockbuster, so probably lots of big media appearances) and given the allegations the documentary makes against him, he'll have to address it, and I'm interested in what he'll have to say about it. I mean he's always seemed mental but I've always assumed that he was just a publicity figure for scientology that was kept in the dark about a lot of the stuff they did, and I've always managed to separate his films and his personal life but after watching this, idk. I've lost pretty much any respect I had for him.
I really recommend watching this. Has anyone else seen it?
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Comments
Glad I was raised by Shaolin monks... \m/
The very words I live by!
I still don't stand by those that refer to Scientologists as a bunch of nutters, though. Their religion is just as wacky as all the others and their followers haven't sparked wars or genocides in the name of their beliefs like most mainstream religions, so at least for that, they have my respect.
And no, I do not lump it in with other religions. And I'll add that I have zero respect for them. None.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9737886/Jedi-religion-most-popular-alternative-faith.html ;)
http://sithacademy.com/
So leave the Scientologists alone 'they're entitled to their beliefs' aren't they? And ok I'm sure there are a few bad apples but no doubt 'the majority are peace loving'.
Sounds like an interesting film though so I'll certainly try and check it out.
No, they just physically and mentally abuse people, ruin peoples lives if they try to leaves, seperate people from family, put people in prison camps, etc. Plus most mainstream religions don't charge you, unlike Scientologists.
Like I said, it's not what they believe that's the problem, it's certainly no more implausible than other religions. The problem is the horrible stuff they do, which unlike other religions in this day and age, is actually carried out by the church itself.
I think the thing is though, while religion is the cause of lots of atrocities (eg- ISIS currently), in the 21st century at least, times have changed and it is extremists that carry out these atrocities, the actual people of power in those religions are against them. I mean the main muslim governing body isn't helping ISIS round up recruits, they're not telling people in Mosque's to go to Syria and fight (although I guess it is what they teach their that inspires people to). In fact the majority of muslims have criticised ISIS and made it clear that the Muslim community doesn't support them. In Scientology it's not just extremists. The church itself is responsible for all the horrible stuff they do and the fact that they manage to get away with all this is pretty scary imo. At least action is being taken to stop ISIS. Scientology does terrible things on Western soil and gets away with it.
It was an interesting film yeah. I was vaguely aware of the sort of thing Scientologists did but this documentary really shed more light on it for me.
Yeah, it's not really the same though, even though they are all equally unbelieveable (although I can see why some people choose to believe and I don't begrudge them that right) and have all caused a lot of problems. You should really watch the film.
I think even if you do think Scientology is no worse than other religions, it still doesn't excuse the terrible stuff they do. Next time there's an Islamic terrorist attack, or next time some Christian extremists protest at an abortion clinic or something, will you say "yeah, but Islam or Christianity is no real different to other religions". It's not what they believe that's the problem, it's what they do, and in Scientology's case I think it's worse because the church itself is behind the terrible things they do.
I had a Law lecturer once say during a lecture that he was most displeased that "Jedi" was not a religion one could tick on the 2001 UK Census Form!
Tom Cruise got a lot more vocal about scientology once he'd split up with Nicole Kidman and there was apparently a reason for this.
Apparently the leader, David Miscavige, didn't like Nicole (one reason was her dad was a psychologist, and scientologists don't like psychologists). So they tried to split them up, telling him she wasn't good for him and all this. Tom Cruise then requested that Miscavige get someone to tap her phone. They also apparently turned their (Cruise and Kidman's) children against her.
There's also another story in the doc about how scientology tried to find a more suitable girlfriend for Cruise, picking a young scientologist who joined because of the humanitarian stuff they did, giving her a big makeover and all this to make her appealing for him, and also moving her into a center (separating her from her family) but he broke up with her after getting really pissed off because he thought she wasn't respectful enough when she met Miscavige (she had a headache so she was a bit off the day she met him). They then went round to her flat afterwards and destroyed any evidence of her relationship. Later she ended up doing stuff such as cleaning public toilets with a toothbrush as a punishment because she confided in her friend (feeling pretty shitty after the break up), who told the higher ups. Fortunately she's managed to get away from the church now and has had a pretty successful acting career (she's been in Homeland and other shows and films).
Katie Holmes seems to have pretty much sole custody of their daughter now, thank god. She had a really lucky escape. I was really looking forward to Mission Impossible 5 but I think for me now, Tom Cruise might be one of those unfortunate cases where I just can't separate the actors personal life from the films they make enough to properly enjoy them.
It was on HBO in America (because they produced it, and it was also shown at Sundance iirc) for those in the US who are interested in watching it. I dunno if there's some sort of HBO equivalent to BBC iplayer and 4OD that you could use. It's easy enough to find online though. Still think it's a great shame that Sky might not be able to show it in the UK even though they helped produce it. I think this film deserves a lot of publicity to make sure that those who don't already know find out what Scientology really is: an evil, poisonous cult.
They never got respect like every cult oughta get.
It's not like they're Sith Lords,
They're misunderstood.
Deep down inside them there is good!
;)
On the Tom Cruise side of things, this all reeks of more of the same old slanderous libel you'd get on any gossip rag in the west. Any chance the producers of this "documentary" named the National Inquirer or People Magazine as sources of information? Oops, here I am defending Tom again, the audacity of me. Scientologists must've gotten to me. I'm brainwashed. Error error error.
They're not "little" witness interviews, they're interviews with former scientologists. The guy who tapped Kidmans phone spoke to them. There are tons of witness accounts all with the same sort of stories about scientology. You're obviously a Tom Cruise fan, I like some of his films too, but I think it's a pretty immature and fanboyish to blindly dismiss the documentary as tabloid level BS (without actually watching it) just because it portrays someone you like in a negative light.
Believe what you like but just because you like the guys movies, it doesn't mean he can do no wrong. Funnily enough though you mention the national inquirer. I've never heard of them before but apparently they did conduct an interesting interview with John Travolta's nephew.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/showbiz/561886/John-Travolta-Scientology-nephew-drugs
There are loads of first hand accounts telling stories like this. In that article there are also some good quotes there from CR writer Paul Haggis, another former scientologist, who now thinks of them as a cult. So no, it's not a bunch of rubbish and there's tons of evidence, stories, interviews, etc, proving that.
And that's another reason that the whole "it's no worse than other religions" argument doesn't work imo. It's a cult that drains people of their money but uses the pretense of being a religion to avoid being taxed as a business.
I'd say other religions have done the whole money scam better than Scientology, so much so that they should really take notes. Tell people that they'll be heading to hell to burn eternally if they step out of line and they'll pay you anything to redeem their so-called sins. Not to mention all the other people that donate thousands to churches annually, punching more and more wads of cash into that fright machine.
I do agree on the whole "burn in hell" thing though. I understand that religion is a great comfort to some people and it does have positive repercussions as well as negative ones, but these teachings are thousands of years old. They're outdated. Telling someone who's gay for example that it's a sin and they'll go to hell, or even worse stoning them for it like Muslims do in some places, is sick.
My adoptive mum for example is Catholic, not very religious, but she goes to church at Easter and she believes in God and Jesus and everything. But she doesn't have a problem with gay people, or abortion, or sex before marriage, or contraception, etc. She doesn't let her religion take away control her life or take away from her common sense or her basic human decency. She realizes that the bible was written thousands of years ago in a time that's very different to todays society and that a lot of its teachings are massively outdated and actually pretty horrible (saying being gay is wrong) and that some of it is just plain scientifically wrong (eg-Genesis, complete bollocks, there's proof that evolution is a fact).
I think that's the example all religious people should follow. By all means believe in a higher power if it offers comfort to you but don't blindly follow religion no matter what and recognize that your religion is based on teachings from thousands of years ago which means a lot of it will have since been proven wrong.
I am therefore forced to agree.