Rant on M,Q and Moneypenny

124

Comments

  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    I also agree with the other points my generation was not filing its time with computer games and the internet. We played jumpers for goal post football and as a family Saturday night was Bond night, we sat as a family and watched a film together GF, FRWL to Octopussy and so on. The youth today have short attention spans they prefer quick thing that stimulate their brains and they have endless access to movies that we didnt have. We had to go out and rent a video, remember those lol?.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/James-Bond Thanks for your input timmer above is a link to franchise profit history it shows DAD cost $40M more to make than CR. CR made $63M more at the box office. Add the two together that was $103M more in the studios pockets for their investors. MGM were going bust and didnt want to fund another Bond, I said previoisly EON had to work hard for investment and had to deliver a good return for that investment. Barb brought in Dan, Dan's Bond brought in a new audience and the investors saw a good return and the franchise lived on. Dan's reign is also to be scrutinised QOS was far more expensive to make and the turnover margin was not as good. If you have a look at the link you will see it cost more than Skyfall to make.

    Doesn't it also show that GE made roughly six times it's budget, the same as CR? That is of course if you believe the budget of CR was indeed $102m, most reports suggest it's around $150m, which would then leave it trailing GE having earned just under four times its budget. Even SF only made 5.5 times its budget, still trailing GE (in fact even AVTAK made five times it's budget) Then of course we have films like TB, that made nine times it's budget, or of course GF which pulled in a box office haul 'forty times' its budget. All of a sudden the modern figures don't necessarily mean all that much.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Hi again this is not about new versus old, its about old forumla and "timeline" up to DAD on to reboot and a new audience growth after reboot and my point that the new generation dont care much for old forumla justifying that EON were right to change things.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Hi again this is not about new versus old, its about old forumla and "timeline" up to DAD on to reboot and a new audience growth after reboot and my point that the new generation dont care much for old forumla justifying that EON were right to change things.

    I don't think anyone is denying they were right to change things creatively, but the whole B.O. thing is non sequitur. They've all been reasonable to very successful on those terms.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    MGM were going bust and didnt want to fund another Bond
    Son, you do not appear to me to understand the financial side of motion pictures. If you invest a dollar & get two back, then you haven't lost money, you've made money. Savy?
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Google MGM Bond money woes you will find a wealth of information from reputible sources it was well documented at the time go and read it and educate yourself. You need to remember you need to put investors money up first and then you need to wait 2 years to see your return, investors can make money grow much quicker with other options. Thats business!.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Google MGM Bond money woes you will find a wealth of information from reputible sources it was well documented at the time go and read it and educate yourself.
    I did and I read it and it tells me nothing I did not know- MGM was NOT in trouble because of Bond movies not making enough money before Dan's movies came out. Even the under performing LTK made money. Perhaps you just don't make your points very well? :-??
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Not going to entertain your nonsense any longer. I said MGM did not want to front the money for another Bond at the time I explained why. If your not intelligent enough to grasp why then dont put words in my mouth and stop replying you dont dont like me I dont like your attitude and your hostile provocation from now on I intend to ignore anything you write your clearly an internet troll. I said before a google your user shows you make a habbit of posting smary replies and enjoy getting a rise from people not just on this site but on AJB and MI6 HQ. Its sad I feel pity for you.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2014 Posts: 17,691
    I said before a google your user shows you make a habbit of posting smary replies and enjoy getting a rise from people not just on this site but on AJB and MI6 HQ.
    Can you post links to any of that here so that I might be able to target/identify my weaknesses & learn from my mistakes and grow as an individual?
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    If you dont know already links will be of no , use your beyond help. Lets just agree to stay clear of each other your just not my cup of early gray old boy.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2014 Posts: 17,691
    If you dont know already links will be of no , use your beyond help.
    Then why not demonstrate for others here what a jerk I am? If you've done the searches they should be easy enough to find again & link to.
    Go for it! Show me up for what I am!

  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    I find it hard to believe that anyone was turning down the opportunity to make 100% return on investment in two years time.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Sark wrote: »
    I find it hard to believe that anyone was turning down the opportunity to make 100% return on investment in two years time.
    Realistically, most short-sighted clowns want 100% (or more) in the first quarter to appease their owners.
    The idea of merely turning a profit is old school. You must also CRUSH the competition to prove your worthiness in the marketplace! The CONAN school of business!

    What will eventually lead to corporate self-destruction.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Sark wrote: »
    I find it hard to believe that anyone was turning down the opportunity to make 100% return on investment in two years time.
    Realistically, most short-sighted clowns want 100% (or more) in the first quarter to appease their owners.
    The idea of merely turning a profit is old school. You must also CRUSH the competition to prove your worthiness in the marketplace! The CONAN school of business!

    What will eventually lead to corporate self-destruction.

    Holy crap we actually agree on something, I couldnt have put that better myself. It was at the time the cheap money market in the US clapse of Enron one of the biggest corporations collapsed and had massive roll on effects still taking place today 14 years later and it put off investors. $3 for every $1 you put in after 2 years is not a good investmemt in their eyes they could make that in interest leaving it in their swiss bank accounts without risk.
  • Posts: 4,622
    From my experience any investment that makes any return above zero is a good investment.
    There are too many that go red.
  • AVBAVB
    Posts: 97
    Why anyone would be against MP being played a black actress is beyond me. I won't say it's racist but it is deeply archaic. My only issue is that she was a field agent. So lemme get this straight - she accidentally shoots Bond under impossible circumstances. Not good but it wasn't as though she flopped out there. She must have had a good career thus far to even be on a mission of this magnitude. She then decided it isn't the life for her afterall and becomes a....secretary? Because that is what MP is. Not even just an intelligence officer, but a friggin' secretary?

    I personally would have kept the character Eve in the film, and had Silva shoot her in place of Severine(on the Island) having captured her after the casino scene in Shanghai. Then Bond perhaps could have returned the favour later on :) Then we could have an MP cameo in further films should they want to, but making her a central character is basically making MI6 some Mission Impossible family affair. Bleh.

    Q, I don't have too much of an issue with. He is redundant of course now that Bond is largley gadget-less, but he was an interesting character in Skyfall and helped provide contrast with OldBond. That he was a 20-something nerd was totally fitting. I was hopeful that he would appear in the field in SPECTRE. It would have meant he finally got to see Bond's world, out of his jim-jams, and who knows possibly been KIA.

    M - The problem I had with Dench's M was that she was always in his ear, on missions or not. I always felt there should have been an intermediary somewhere, someone who could be on location. But alas they need to make use of Dench and there are never enough interesting characters on location, which is why it's MI6-centric. With that said, Fiennes M is going to be great, and he is feasibley someone who I can believe as a leader, a strategist, and not just a whining nag. He's someone who I would want to see more of on film.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    My problem with Moneypenny shooting Bond was that she didn't take the clear open shot for several seconds afterwards. I guess we can write it off as her being shocked, but she deserved to be demoted to secretary after that. Clearly she doesn't have the nerve for high pressure jobs.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited December 2014 Posts: 7,314
    timmer wrote: »
    In fact I was talking to some teenagers in the QoS line-up back in 08. These guys had no interest in the older films. They hadn't even seen them. They were worried they would be too low tech. I think their interest might have extended back to the Brozzer era but no further. To them, going back any further, was like watching "old" movies.
    I told them, the old movies were way better. They gave me a withering look.

    Now, I could see a 14 year-old version of myself in 2012 marching off to cinema with the brat pack to watch SF.
    SF probably would have been hooked me into Bond fandom, and I would have immediately sought out every film in the series, and eventually the Fleming books.
    But that's me, a hardcore fan. I think we all had roughly the same experience.
    Our first exposure hooked us, and we sought out the rest, but anyone else is probably not going to make the effort. There is so much media competing for our time.
    There is such an inherent sadness in this. How could someone have no interest in the classics? I understand that it's the reality in which we operate but it's just so wrong.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I don't mind Fiennes getting more screen time as long as it's as an Administrative superior, with the plot of Spectre it seems this is what we are going to get. Dench's participation in Skyfall was a one off and they knew if they were going to kill her off they'd have to give her a meatier role than previously for her sign off.

    I know some thought Bond got lost in amongst the supporting players in SF but personally I didn't see that, I also think for all Dench's efforts and Bardem's scenery chomping that it was always Dan's film like the previous 2 before.

    As for Moneypenny, I though the chemistry with her and Craig was spot on but I don't want to see her in the field with a gun again, she can go out in the field as a M's assistant that is fine from time to time, or meet Bond somewhere in London to pass on info etc but keep her mainly in HQ.

    Q like some have already said was ripe for a reinvention, Cleese proved what was a horrible idea it was trying to follow Desmond's Boothroyd with a similar type. Ben's take was just right, if you have the previous Bond's butting up against an older man not impressed with his actions then going down the route of making a new world Q younger and tech savvy seems the obvious option.

    How MP & Q turn up in subsequent entries will be interesting, the desire to make them integral to the story but as some have said if they aren't then maybe we can have entries where they don't appear or just only briefly, trying to shoehorn them into every entry worth some weight will get tiresome and formulaic, the one thing this era has tried to avoid.
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    First of all screw everyone who is giving me crap for saying I am a racist! The only reason I added the "but.." was because I was trying to make a point..
    No need to get all liberal on me. Haha.

    Anyways! Has nothing to do with race really just I find the current actress not right for the part. She isn't MP to me.
    I was hoping for a white MP just because that is always how I pictured her. Not sure if anyone remembers but Emily Blunt was originally rumored to be MP. I think they missed a huge opportunity for that story. Having MP shoot Bond didn't work for me either.

    Ralph Fiennes to is still a really good choice for M eitherway.. I wouldn't change that.
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    The way I would have done it, would have been to put MP in an awkward situation with Bond.
    Maybe he kisses her on a mission,(while undercover) and she takes a liking to him. Later she walks in on him sleeping with another woman and takes offense to it. I would love to see MP being the one constantly rejecting Bond....
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    First of all screw everyone who is giving me crap for saying I am a racist! The only reason I added the "but.." was because I was trying to make a point..
    No need to get all liberal on me. Haha.

    Anyways! Has nothing to do with race really

    It was possibly because you suggested your first major issue was with her being black. There are a tonne of issues I have with the reimagined MP, but being black isn't one of them. I don't think it's racist to want character to remain visually consistent, but hopefully you're over the initial shock and realise it's perfectly fine.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    I don't think it's racist not to like Naomi Harris as MP. Movies are a visual medium, and changing a character in some way can be difficult for people to accept, at least initially, due to the shock factor of the change. The same can be said of Craig vs. Brosnan. Yes, agreed, over time it should mean nothing.

    I personally just don't think she's a good actress. I've seen her in After the Sunset and I've seen her in the Pirate movies, and I don't see what the big deal is. She's average to below average.

    The other thing I have a problem with is that we were given too much to reimagine for her character in SF, and it was unecessary. Change for the sake of change. So my problem is with EON. As an example, we had to assume she was incompetent (I don't remember that portrayal before - MP was never incompetent, quite the contrary - just with a longing to be taken seriously by Bond), that she had a Jamaican accent (why exactly? Is this necessary? Even Eva Green took lessons to get a full English accent for CR, and I understand Seydoux is doing the same for SP), and that she was black. All of this was unecessary within the context of the plot, so it felt like it was being shoehorned in to tick a box.

    Arguably her new found incompetence combined with her being non-white and Bond's condescension towards her is a troubling visual paradigm in itself which they perhaps should have avoided.

    With Q, at least the geeky, younger reinterpretation made sense, in the context of today's society. It is in fact more likely that a Q would be like him rather than Desmond Llewelyn, apart from the stupidity of plugging Silva's computer into the MI6 network.

    So it's the check the box reinterpretation that I have a problem with. For the same reasons, I did not like Samantha Bond's MP either. That too was an unecessary reinterpretation of a much loved character (why did she have to be so abrasive towards Bond? Because we live in a darn PC world? This is a James Bond movie, not Sex in the City for pete's sake).

    I realize that MP was not fleshed out in Fleming, but she was suitably fleshed out for 23 years on screen by the brilliant Lois Maxwell, who many of us fondly remember. So I think EON should have had a somewhat faithful interpretation of that portrayal. It's not like with Craig, where they are arguably going back to the source material. Even Craig is bringing back some of the Conneryisms from that much loved era. I don't think there's anyone who will say that Lois Maxwell is not the gold standard for MP.

    Having said all of that, if they want to check a box to appease some who may say that the James Bond universe is too white, then go for it. Arguably the James Bond universe should reflect London's ethnic diversity as it stands today. Just not Harris. I liked Salmon in the Brosnan universe and I like Wright in the Craig universe. I did not like Dench in the Brosnan/Craig Universe (not because she was a woman, but because I found her M too motherly in some instances and too condescending/controlling in other instances).
  • I think that, in the present, Q must be a young geek as Ben. Ralph is a very good choice as M, I think he will work with future Bonds. A black MoneyPenny? I´m not sure, but I can live with it.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    How would people feel about a young British-Indian man as Q?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    How would people feel about a young British-Indian man as Q?

    As long as there was no Indian sub-accent, or cliche, it was played by a good actor, and he was suitably geeky like Whishaw, I'd have no problem with it.

    The guy from the Newsroom, Dev Patel could do it easily.

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    How would people feel about a young British-Indian man as Q?

    As long as there was no Indian sub-accent, or cliche, it was played by a good actor, and he was suitably geeky like Whishaw, I'd have no problem with it.

    The guy from the Newsroom, Dev Patel could do it easily.

    Yeah, Dev Patel wouldn't be a bad shout actually.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 2,115
    //Eon clearly did not want a Jack Lord alpha-male type, challenging Connery's screen supremacy.//

    Actually, Eon wanted Jack Lord to return for Goldfinger, but he wanted more money and billing than Eon was willing to provide. (That was first disclosed in a Starlog interview with Richard Maibaum in 1983).

    As a side note, Lord was cast for his most famous role, Steve McGarrett, a mere five days before the start of shooting the Hawaii Five-O pilot. That was disclosed by Rose Freeman, widow of Five-O creator Leonard Freeman, at a 1996 fan convention in Los Angeles.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,331
    RC7 wrote: »
    How would people feel about a young British-Indian man as Q?

    As long as he's not Major Boothroyd then I'm all for it.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    I know some folks don't care for Naomie as MP, but plenty do. I happen to like her a lot, and I do think she is a good actress, too. I enjoy her and Craig together; a very natural, warm chemistry.

    Q can be of any ethnicity for me as long as he is British.
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