The PTS of FYEO

13

Comments

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,794
    mtm wrote: »
    Tracy's grave should have just blown up in his face. That's how the real Blofeld would have done it.

    I stand by this :D
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,373
    What do you guys think of my theory?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,794
    I get your point about Tracy's grave being in a strange location, but if it were a designated meeting place why would the vicar have to rush to meet Bond and tell him?
  • BennyBenny keeping tabs on youAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,733
    I’m sorry but I cannot get on board with your theory @MI6HQ
    It holds no logic for me, and is overly complicated.
    The PTS of FYEO is a way to show an ageing Roger Moore as the same Bond as Lazenby and Connery. A little bit of continuity to link the Bonds.
    By having Tracy’s grave it allowed EON to bring back Blofeld without naming him. But with a white cat, it’s obvious to the audience who this is supposed to be. Then by killing him at the end of the PTS it’s basically a big middle finger to Kevin McClory and co.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited October 2022 Posts: 3,373
    Benny wrote: »
    I’m sorry but I cannot get on board with your theory @MI6HQ
    It holds no logic for me, and is overly complicated.
    The PTS of FYEO is a way to show an ageing Roger Moore as the same Bond as Lazenby and Connery. A little bit of continuity to link the Bonds.
    By having Tracy’s grave it allowed EON to bring back Blofeld without naming him. But with a white cat, it’s obvious to the audience who this is supposed to be. Then by killing him at the end of the PTS it’s basically a big middle finger to Kevin McClory and co.

    Yes, I know it, in terms of production.

    But in terms of narrative, or how it serves the story or the plot, I think that's it.

    Because why would the vicar tell Bond that there's a helicopter that will pick up him?

    If it's a real graveyard, then it wouldn't happen, or the vicar would give Bond at least a time to mourn his wife, right?

    Means the vicar was also one of the MI6 staffs whose disguised as a vicar.

    How the helicopter knew where to Pick Bond?

    It's just a meeting point for MI6 agents disguised as a fake graveyard.

    I know the purpose of that PTS was to tell us that this is still the same Bond as the others, but in terms of narrative, or how I'm going to view it inside the film or the scene itself, that's my theory.

    Think of the Monastery in MR, or the Queen Elizabeth wreck in TMWTGG, that's also the same as the graveyard.
  • BennyBenny keeping tabs on youAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,733
    No it’s not.
    It’s a graveyard, the vicar is real. As he says, “Your office called…” and so on.
    Why can’t the vicar be real and receive phone calls.
    Although we’re not told, MI6 know that Bond is at the grave of Tracy.
    You’re theory carries no weight at all I’m afraid. It’s never implied that this is anything other than it is.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,876
    Benny wrote: »
    No it’s not.
    It’s a graveyard, the vicar is real. As he says, “Your office called…” and so on.
    Why can’t the vicar be real and receive phone calls.
    Although we’re not told, MI6 know that Bond is at the grave of Tracy.
    You’re theory carries no weight at all I’m afraid. It’s never implied that this is anything other than it is.

    If he was a real vicar, he just would have gotten a text. ;)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Also, if he is in London, why don t they just meet and talk in the office?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2022 Posts: 7,517
    Benny wrote: »
    No it’s not.
    It’s a graveyard, the vicar is real. As he says, “Your office called…” and so on.
    Why can’t the vicar be real and receive phone calls.
    Although we’re not told, MI6 know that Bond is at the grave of Tracy.
    You’re theory carries no weight at all I’m afraid. It’s never implied that this is anything other than it is.

    Agreed; I'd have thought, if anything, the vicar was a Spectre agent in disguise (rather than MI6)? The way he does that prayer as Bond gets in the helicopter.

    But no, the more thought given to the PTS of FYEO, the more thought wasted. Which is a shame because FYEO is probably my favourite Moore.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,794
    Benny wrote: »
    No it’s not.
    It’s a graveyard, the vicar is real. As he says, “Your office called…” and so on.
    Why can’t the vicar be real and receive phone calls.
    Although we’re not told, MI6 know that Bond is at the grave of Tracy.
    You’re theory carries no weight at all I’m afraid. It’s never implied that this is anything other than it is.

    Agreed; I'd have thought, if anything, the vicar was a Spectre agent in disguise (rather than MI6)? The way he does that prayer as Bond gets in the helicopter.

    That's a fun idea, never considered that before! :)
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I've always assumed the Vicar was in on it, because Bond found it odd to receive his blessing on departure, as if it were his last rites or something to that effect.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,517
    pachazo wrote: »
    I've always assumed the Vicar was in on it, because Bond found it odd to receive his blessing on departure, as if it were his last rites or something to that effect.

    Exactly. And it could explain away the oddity of the chopper landing at the graveyard: the Spectre agent dispatches the real vicar and assumes his identity.

    But again, this whole PTS is a write-off.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    edited October 2022 Posts: 8,640
    My take on this (not feeling like reviewing it before writing this) is that the vicar is real, but he is mistakenly thinking that Bond's office really called him while it was SPECTRE. Also, I have no doubts that Tracy was actually buried in England. Not a big thing to transport a coffin with a dead body from Switzerland or whatever to the UK.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,638
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    My take on this (not feeling like reviewing it before writing this) is that the vicar is real, but he is mistakenly thinking that Bond's office really called him while it was SPECTRE. Also, I have no doubts that Tracy was actually buried in England. Not a big think to transport a coffin with a dead body from Switzerland or whatever to the UK.

    My take too, and surely the only sane one. I know we live in the age of the internet and thus the rampant dissemination of conspiracy theories is the order of the day but sometimes a grave is just a grave, a vicar is just a vicar and nothing more. If we were to think anything else I imagine it would have been made crystal clear for us and not have to be inferred in any way, most especially not in the bit of fluff that is the FYEO PTS.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2022 Posts: 14,794
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    My take on this (not feeling like reviewing it before writing this) is that the vicar is real, but he is mistakenly thinking that Bond's office really called him while it was SPECTRE. Also, I have no doubts that Tracy was actually buried in England. Not a big think to transport a coffin with a dead body from Switzerland or whatever to the UK.

    I guess it is a bit weird of Bond to (presumably) insist on that, given that her dad knew her longer and lived on the continent, and she never spent any time with Bond in the UK.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    My take on this (not feeling like reviewing it before writing this) is that the vicar is real, but he is mistakenly thinking that Bond's office really called him while it was SPECTRE. Also, I have no doubts that Tracy was actually buried in England. Not a big think to transport a coffin with a dead body from Switzerland or whatever to the UK.

    My take too, and surely the only sane one. I know we live in the age of the internet and thus the rampant dissemination of conspiracy theories is the order of the day but sometimes a grave is just a grave, a vicar is just a vicar and nothing more. If we were to think anything else I imagine it would have been made crystal clear for us and not have to be inferred in any way, most especially not in the bit of fluff that is the FYEO PTS.

    It's just a bit of fun, nothing more.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2022 Posts: 7,517
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    My take on this (not feeling like reviewing it before writing this) is that the vicar is real, but he is mistakenly thinking that Bond's office really called him while it was SPECTRE. Also, I have no doubts that Tracy was actually buried in England. Not a big think to transport a coffin with a dead body from Switzerland or whatever to the UK.

    My take too, and surely the only sane one. I know we live in the age of the internet and thus the rampant dissemination of conspiracy theories is the order of the day but sometimes a grave is just a grave, a vicar is just a vicar and nothing more. If we were to think anything else I imagine it would have been made crystal clear for us and not have to be inferred in any way, most especially not in the bit of fluff that is the FYEO PTS.

    Yeah, that's fair, the only thing that made me think any differently was the blessing he gave to Bond as he got on the chopper.

    Also, what's the harm in coming up with fun theories? Not everything needs to be so serious.

    Sometimes a grave is just a grave, a vicar just a vicar, but also these are Bond films where sometimes it's fair to say things aren't always what they seem.

    Anyways, no need to deem "insane" the fun of coming up with different theories.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 2022 Posts: 5,876
    Hello, vicar!

    For the longest time, I thought he was Robert Morley.
  • Posts: 1,537
    Just a reminder here -- we did not actually see Blofeld die in the FYEO PTS...just as we did not see him die at the end of DAF, though he certainly had more physical protection around himself at the end of DAF. Might he have had a parachute on that wheelchair, one capable of opening in narrow spaces ? Blofeld being Blofeld, he has a way of surviving.

    By the way - I note here a similarity between OHMSS and DAF. At the end of each, Bond has disposed of Blofeld, but not necessarily killed him. Yet, in neither film does Bond bother to go get Blofeld, or Blofeld's body. And after going through so much trouble !
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,517
    Since62 wrote: »
    Just a reminder here -- we did not actually see Blofeld die in the FYEO PTS...just as we did not see him die at the end of DAF, though he certainly had more physical protection around himself at the end of DAF. Might he have had a parachute on that wheelchair, one capable of opening in narrow spaces ? Blofeld being Blofeld, he has a way of surviving.

    By the way - I note here a similarity between OHMSS and DAF. At the end of each, Bond has disposed of Blofeld, but not necessarily killed him. Yet, in neither film does Bond bother to go get Blofeld, or Blofeld's body. And after going through so much trouble !

    Just as it should be. ;) The biggest problem I had with NTTD was the death of Blofeld.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited October 2022 Posts: 17,638
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    My take on this (not feeling like reviewing it before writing this) is that the vicar is real, but he is mistakenly thinking that Bond's office really called him while it was SPECTRE. Also, I have no doubts that Tracy was actually buried in England. Not a big think to transport a coffin with a dead body from Switzerland or whatever to the UK.

    My take too, and surely the only sane one. I know we live in the age of the internet and thus the rampant dissemination of conspiracy theories is the order of the day but sometimes a grave is just a grave, a vicar is just a vicar and nothing more. If we were to think anything else I imagine it would have been made crystal clear for us and not have to be inferred in any way, most especially not in the bit of fluff that is the FYEO PTS.

    Yeah, that's fair, the only thing that made me think any differently was the blessing he gave to Bond as he got on the chopper.

    Also, what's the harm in coming up with fun theories? Not everything needs to be so serious.

    Sometimes a grave is just a grave, a vicar just a vicar, but also these are Bond films where sometimes it's fair to say things aren't always what they seem.

    Anyways, no need to deem "insane" the fun of coming up with different theories.

    Sorry if I came across as a spoilsport but it was just a reaction to the rather fanciful post above about how the whole graveyard and Tracy's grave were fake. I don't want to discourage our young member and it's really good people are thinking so much about the films but I think sometimes we can go off on a tangent with these things. If we are to build on what the films provide for us they should be evidence based and not just flights of fancy.

    I have heard the theory about the vicar being in on the whole thing based on his giving the sign of the cross to Bond as the helicopter lifts off but I don't subscribe to this theory myself. I think it's just a vicar blessing Bond with a safe journey in an aircraft well known for its dangerousness. I think we l know that the FYEO PTS, entertaining as it is, was rather thrown together to make any McClory produced Bond film that followed it hamstrung by the fact that Blofeld was already dead. Anyone who reads my posts here knows that I'm not too serious for long so I'm sorry to have given that impression. I hope our learned members here keep propounding their theories on all aspects of Bondage for as long as this good community endures. :)
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited October 2022 Posts: 1,386
    My take on the Vicar: he's innocent.

    Watch the scene carefully.

    The Vicar knows Bond, knows his name, they've likely interacted before as Bond comes and visits this grave often. On this day, with Bond there, the Vicar gets a call and is told that Bond is due to report and it's a matter of emergency. He may even have some idea of where Bond actually works, if they ever discussed how Bond's wife died. However, the chopper says "Universal Exports," so maybe the Vicar doesn't know.

    Here is my first argument for the Vicar's blessing as innocent: he knows Bond is headed into an "emergency" at work, and he knows that Bond knows he's headed into an emergency because he just told him. So he's blessing him as he leaves to go deal with an emergency, which interrupted his grieving. The man could use a blessing!

    My second argument for the Vicar's blessing as innocent: Helicopters are dangerous. Flying is perceived to be dangerous. The Vicar is blessing Bond for getting in one of those contraptions.

    My third argument: As I said before, Bond probably visits often; the Vicar knows his name already. He may have just been blessing a man he knows to be sad and grieving.

    REGARDLESS I think the filmmakers probably intentionally left it ambiguous. The strange blessing builds tension, it's creepy, and they don't need to explain it. It's perfect.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited October 2022 Posts: 2,860
    Since62 wrote: »
    Might he have had a parachute on that wheelchair, one capable of opening in narrow spaces ? Blofeld being Blofeld, he has a way of surviving.
    Magnets!

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,638
    Reenactment of the vicar scene by For Bond Fans Only which even features one of our members here:

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2022 Posts: 14,794
    Since62 wrote: »
    Just a reminder here -- we did not actually see Blofeld die in the FYEO PTS...just as we did not see him die at the end of DAF, though he certainly had more physical protection around himself at the end of DAF. Might he have had a parachute on that wheelchair, one capable of opening in narrow spaces ? Blofeld being Blofeld, he has a way of surviving.

    By the way - I note here a similarity between OHMSS and DAF. At the end of each, Bond has disposed of Blofeld, but not necessarily killed him. Yet, in neither film does Bond bother to go get Blofeld, or Blofeld's body. And after going through so much trouble !

    And don't forget, we don't even know for sure it's actually Blofeld! :)
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,865
    When you stop and really think about this, how would "the office" know Bond was visiting the grave of his dead wife? Is this something you tell folks, "hey guys I am heading to my wife's gravesite if anyone is looking for me." Seems weird, yet Bond walks to the copter with no issues or a sense of anything going wrong.

    Why does the Vicar do the cross symbol? Always bothered me, like he knew he was sending Bond to his death? Or was there a person alive in 1981 that didn't think helicopters were safe?

    All that nitpicky stuff out of the way. I used to love the PTS of this movie and really enjoyed Blofeld getting his comeuppance. Then came to learn that this was Cubby giving an FU to McClory. That took some of the shine off for me.

    On a Bond and Friends Podcast it was suggested to do OHMSS and FYEO as a double feature and I can see it working quite well. Going to have to try that.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,517
    Perhaps we need to make a feature length fan film regarding the goings on of this particular cemetery & vicar... ;)
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,386
    Let's look at a script I found:
    FeL8zk-X0AIXJ-F?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
    FeL84u8XEAAkIzY?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
    FeL86PDWQAAXllP?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
    -
    To my eyes there's no indication he's a SPECTRE agent. They don't even detail Bond being bothered by the blessing, which is how Moore plays it in the scene.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2022 Posts: 7,517
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Let's look at a script I found:
    FeL8zk-X0AIXJ-F?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
    FeL84u8XEAAkIzY?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
    FeL86PDWQAAXllP?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
    -
    To my eyes there's no indication he's a SPECTRE agent. They don't even detail Bond being bothered by the blessing, which is how Moore plays it in the scene.

    Nice one. I'll say, at risk of being even more nitpicky, Moore's reaction to the vicar's blessing is honestly what makes it suspicious. Bond himself is our perspective into the world of Bond (as Watson is to the world of Sherlock)... if he sees something as strange, for all intents and purposes, that thing is strange.

    But as you say, nothing in this script indicates that there's anything strange about it, so, just a vicar.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2022 Posts: 14,794
    That’s direction and editing for you, giving you something extra to what’s on the script page and interpreting it.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,517
    They say a film is made in the edit.
Sign In or Register to comment.