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People who can make an argument and make you look racist? I'd avoid me too, idiot. Would love to meet you in person sometime and show you what I really think of racists.
You will be banned soon, I'm sure. No place for trolls here.
If you're still here I should be just fine. I wouldn't be surprised if they shut this thread down, though, considering all of the racism. If a racist mod bans me, so be it.
Clever, but in reality your shoe size is the equivalent of your IQ.
Racist mod? You are asking for trouble, aren't ya?
No but I am curious who comes out of the woodwork. A lot of you are telling on yourselves.
My concern would be, is it a bit too far from the formula of Bond to satisfy a need for reinvention? The ending of NTTD for example was not to my taste and went too far from what Bond is but some on here embraced it and loved it. I'm not sure of the answer honestly
Hold on, "you fools"? Tell me, where in that post have I expressed my personal opinion in the matter? And where have I stated that I "need Bond to be white to be a fan"?
Allow me to reiterate what I said. If a Bond fan--any Bond fan, not specifically me--has an idea of the "right" actor for Bond, surely that fan can express his preferences without having to be called names. Saying "I prefer Bond to be white" is not the same as spouting white supremacy nonsense everywhere.
I don't want a woman for Bond. Am I a sexist?
I don't want an octogenarian for Bond. Am I an ageist?
I don't want a mentally disabled person for Bond. Am I inhumane?
If you answered yes in any of these three cases, A) you don't know me, B) you're just too principled in the matter and you are losing track of what it means to be something-ist.
If you must know, I used to be very much against the idea of a black Bond, but I'm warming up to it. That said, if another member confesses they don't "feel it" if Bond were black, that doesn't make him racist in my book, unless he clearly hates black people in general, including, for example, all black actors everywhere. I don't think we've ever come across such a type here.
Lastly, @LucknFate, if you think me racist, you should talk to my wife, who is of Indian/Ugandan decent and whom I love more than anyone in the whole world.
You seem to be racist.
You are such an eloquent mod and 100 billion percent correct. Brilliantly put.
At least have the decency to use quotes. Enlighten me!
I don't think obesity works as a great comparison though: Bond is supposed to be a super sexy, athletic close-to-perfect specimen, and making him overweight really would be a change to his character. A change of race wouldn't be a change like that.
Height, I'd say there's a cut-off but I don't find it as important anyway.
I'd agree, it's why I'm a bit confused as to why he's your least favourite actor even if he embodied many of these traits. I personally think embodying the literary character in these ways is vital for any new Bond actor. I mean, I go as far as to say that the character Moore plays in FYEO isn't recognisable to me as James Bond, nor is Brosnan in TWINE.
Also, what does Fleming's Bond actually look like? None of the actors look like Hoagey Carmichael (if such a reference brings anything at all to the minds of modern readers, which I doubt it does for most), nor do they have scars on their cheeks or commas of hair. Arguably actors like Brosnan or Lazenby who essentially looked like male models didn't have the look Fleming envisioned either, nor did Connery really (again, with his receding hairline, more rugged features and thick Scottish accent - rather jarring when compared to the descriptions of the literary Bond, no doubt). So strictly speaking it's arguable that appearance is something malleable when choosing a new Bond.
The issue isn't that you're meant to believe that whoever's playing Bond onscreen is Fleming's Bond, but that they're 'James Bond' if that makes sense. Apart from Craig's eyes, I don't imagine him when I read the novels, but when I watch his performance in SF there are many moments when I instantly get that 'feeling' of the literary character. He's playing his own Bond, and indeed I can go along with this because I'm engrossed in the film, but it's that element of his performance that invests me even more because I know he's still that character with those fundamental traits. Doesn't even matter if you've read the novels or not. Fact is for many viewers today Craig is James Bond for them, appearance and all. Similar to how caricatures of Bond for the longest time depicted him with a heavy Connery-esque Scottish accent even if this wasn't ever the case with the literary Bond.
I mean, just because an actor might look like Hoagey Carmichael or style their hair in a certain way or have the make-up department put a scar on their cheek doesn't mean viewers will accept them as Bond, nor that they will be able to embody the part. In this sense I think it's very possible that a non-white actor will be able to play the part in a way that's more recognisably 'James Bond' than a white actor who had the appearance of the literary character.
No one's saying you shouldn't notice anyone's race. Obviously a non-white actor is... well, non-white. Just like how Craig has blonde hair. Or how Moore had a mole on his face. Or how Connery had busy eyebrows and a hairy chest. Neither am I saying anyone who thinks Bond should be played by a white actor is automatically racist (unless they say anything that's racist). I just think it's a discussion that's actually quite interesting and is a bit more complicated than saying 'Fleming's Bond was white so the onscreen one should be' or 'you wouldn't get a white actor to play so-or-so character, so why get a black actor to play Bond'.
But that's exactly my point, @mtm. You don't find it as important, nor do I, but some of our members do, as we have seen with the casting of Craig. And that's what I'm trying to explain. Some don't care about Bond's skin colour, like yourself. Some are halfway there, like me. And some really do. It would be wrong if the latter called you someone "who doesn't understand Bond" for entertaining the idea of a black Bond. But, at the same time, it would be wrong for others to call them "racist" for not "feeling it".
Racism is a very strong word and I'd prefer it not used too loosely. Calling someone a racist is a big accusation. It covers a very wide range of really bad things. It means that people of a different origin, culture, race, ... are thought of as inferior, as lower-rate citizens, as people who should be excluded from various parts of society simply because they are different. It is also a crime. A Bond fan who can't "see it", is not a racist for that reason. That would be a big and dangerous jump, and I wish we could continue this discussion without the R-word. It's caustic, it sours the discussion, and it's absolutely not necessary.
Regarding obesity; you say that making Bond overweight would change his character because Bond is athletic. So, to you, "overweight" and "athletic" don't match, therefore "overweight" and "Bond" don't match. I agree. But maybe some people don't. Maybe they can see Bond still be Fleming's Bond, even with the extra pounds. You or I would be disgusted if they called us people who discriminate the overweight. I mean, why should Bond be athletic? What do we have against our overweight fellow men? It wouldn't help to go there.
I'm sure your wife is nice.
Casting a woman would not be the end of the world, and if they did it and fans boycotted because of it, I would call them sexist fans, at least, yes. Whether they are sexist constantly is a different thing, but it's a sexist act.
To me, a non-racist fan is still open to the idea of where the franchise goes next. A close-minded, kinda racist fan would say no Black actor should ever be James Bond. If it sounds racist, it is. Don't mean someone is racist to everyone, but they are racist when it comes to James Bond.
Darth... people can be a little or a lot racist. A single action can be racist, a lifetime of actions can be racist.
I'm sure we all mean well here, but if a Black fan were to read what some of you write, I can't imagine they'd feel welcome here.
Wow, either you are doing a massive amount of projection or you really have no Idea of what constitutes racism. Have a look in the mirror and decide which is accurate.
Except it literally is lol. Anyone who feels this way is saying skin color would make them not like the character. How is that anything but racist.
I'm the one who said it but I'd also be fine with a black actor playing Bond. I've been championing the likes of Sope for several pages now and have always thought Bond's own Colin Salmon would've made a brilliant 007. So no, you're entirely incorrect in that assessment.
What assessment? I said nothing about you directly. "Anyone who feels this way" if you read closely...
Well, I feel that way, since you're quoting me, but I wouldn't dislike the character because a black actor was cast. You were literally discussing me directly there, not sure where the confusion on your end is coming from. Thus, that's completely wrong.
So then you actually _don't_ care if Bond stays white, really. Good for you.
That's not what others are saying.
I'd prefer he remain that way but it's not the end of the world if he doesn't. My original statement still stands, which is what I took issue with in your response because it's factually wrong.
If a change in skin color on James Bond specifically makes somebody less happy, that somebody is racist. Whether that applies to you or not, whether you like it or not, it's the point I'm making. There.
I'm not calling anyone racist, I was replying to the idea of obesity being an equivalent to race with regards to Bond, which I'm saying it isn't. I think if someone likes the character and they can't express why one aspect of the character's appearance is so important, then perhaps reconsidering its importance is worth a try.
Maybe, as I say, I haven't called anyone racist, but I think it's always worth challenging one's own preconceptions and making sure that they're not coloured by prejudices one didn't even realise one had. Because sometimes there just is racism underlying some attitudes, and sometimes there isn't.
Well my point is more about how I'm able to express how that would be a change to the character of Bond and make him not the guy we've always seen him as. Pretending that obesity is something else completely doesn't really help the conversation, I'm not dealing with 'what if the world was upside down' hypotheticals because we'll never get anywhere with that, I'm talking about this specific situation and how we all define what's important about the character. And I think that unless someone can actually explain why his having a white face is key to him, how he acts, how characters around him react to him (and bear in mind he exists in a world with pretty much no prejudice) then I can't really understand their thinking.
He's a sexy, attractive, experienced, confident adult male who has a lot of self-belief, style and women generally flock to him. He's an athletic superspy who can pull off incredible physical feats and has a slightly smarmy sense of humour... all of these are important to how characters around him react to him, what we the audience see him do, what we enjoy watching him do... where does race fit into that?
If an audience member does find themselves reacting differently to him purely because of his race, and if he's presented in exactly the same way otherwise, and they can't explain what the difference is, well... is that not the audience member's issue?
Christ on a horse you are deluded. The mods have intellectually decimated your posts and yet you continue to spout your ignorance. Shame on you.
Same. If a black actor were officially announced, I'd be interested in what else he's been in, and keep the same open mind I had in '95 and in '06. I wouldn't throw a tantrum here and leave for good.
There's a lot of presuming going on here. Simply because some prefer a white Bond, they are suddenly racist. Simply because some defend the freedom of others to state that, regardless of their own opinion, they are called racist too. Right now, I see that as the bigger issue, quite frankly.
My hunch is Eon would still wait until Bruce Wayne, Peter Parker, or Kal El are re-cast with Idris Elba or Sope............... and then see how successful that is before changing Bond's ethnicity.
We can forget about Superman as an option as Cavill is signed to return. There was talk about a Michael B Jordan Superman movie, but he wasn't exactly going to be playing Kal-El/Clark Kent, so I don't think that's the same thing.
I suppose we can also forget about Batman as an option, too as Pattinson is the current Dark Knight. Had Elba been cast as Bruce Wayne in THE BATMAN instead of Pattinson, I'd have more confidence we'd be getting a new Bond of African descent.
On an even more pessimistic side, rather than getting a traditional Bond adventure like OCTOPUSSY in which the new Bond happens to be black or asian, I do think Purvis and Wade would probably make this change a plot point. That could either be very well handled or very poorly handled. Gene therapy as in DIE ANOTHER DAY?
Yes. lol. If I prefer a white teacher, that'd make me racist. If I prefer a white Sherlock Holmes, I'd be racist. If I preferred a white prime minister, I'd be racist. Same with James Bond buddy!
I guess this is all that really should be said. I don't expect anyone with prejudiced thoughts to like being called racist...