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Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • bondsumbondsum
    edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I think it's also a certain approach to the role which was a mistake: make Bond a vulnerable everyman. As a fighter I don't think he should be depicted as average. But even Connery in DAF seemed particularly inept at times.

    I know Dalton was fighting the ghost of Brosnan, but being depicted as a mediocre fighter at best didn't help his popularity.
    Connery still has that great elevator fight scene in DAF that I honestly don't think was surpassed until Craig's stairwell fight in CR. I don't want to specifically single out Dalton here because neither Moore nor Brosnan convinced me in the fighting department either. Currently there's only 3 Bonds that do it for me in the action/fighting scenes and those are Connery, Lazenby and Craig. I guess it helps that Craig has his head digitally morphed onto a stunt guy for certain scenes, but he's still damned good when it's not done that way. Connery, of course, was a natural because he could fight in real life so he made it look real even though it was clearly staged. Lazenby was helped by sped-up editing tricks, but he still looked damned convincing nonetheless. Moore always looked phoney, especially with those naff karate chops and inserts of a flared trouser leg kicking someone in the shins like a school bully. Brosnan did an awful lot of running about, firing a machine gun and gurning into the camera like the gurning man when in a bit of pain, but very little else. Dalton, however, was never really given much fighting to do in his first picture. LTK should've been where he showed us he could pull a proper punch and put it to good effect, but it all looked rather pathetic if I'm going to be honest. I'm just surprised Dalton didn't insist on working much harder with the fight choreographers to get it right. Maybe the falling out with John Glen had something to do with it?
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    This is a good debate here,so maybe we should all chat about it in here : https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/246/timothy-daltons-fisticuffs#latest before we de-rail the 'actors' thread any more !
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited May 2018 Posts: 11,189
    I find the DAF elevator fight rather unexciting compared to Connery’s earlier fights. Though I think the blame there is with the editing @bondsum.

    About half way through it I’m wanting it to end.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    Yeah, that's because you've probably watched it over a 1000 times @BAIN123. When is anything exciting when you know what's coming next? The real excitement is seeing it on the big screen on Day 1 and not knowing anything about it. I can't agree, the low and tight angles made this look quite unique and exciting back in 71. Compared to any of the fight scenes in TLD and LTK—which look insipid, uninspiring and lacking in energy—the DAF elevator fight looks like a high-water mark in the series.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited May 2018 Posts: 11,189
    Well it isn’t anywhere near the level of the train fight, which ive seen many many times and can still be utterly gripped by.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    The train fight? Which one @BAIN123? FRWL, LALD, TSWLM, SP? My point was that DAF was the last decent fight scene until CR came along. Neither Moore, Dalton or Brosnan come anywhere close to it.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    bondsum wrote: »
    The train fight? Which one @BAIN123? FRWL, LALD, TSWLM, SP? My point was that DAF was the last decent fight scene until CR came along. Neither Moore, Dalton or Brosnan come anywhere close to it.

    FRWL of course.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    But FRWL comes long before DAF not afterwards @BAIN123. And I agree, that's a brilliant scene which is helped by some excellent dialogue between Robert Shaw and Connery before the fighting kicks in. Can you give a better fighting example that occurred after DAF and before CR? I can't.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited May 2018 Posts: 11,189
    I'd say in terms of being thrilling fights I'd actually put at least the train fight in LALD, the 006 fight and even maybe the swordfight in DAD above it.

    Possibly the train fight in TSWLM too but that is more because of Kiel. Love the shot of him gripping Moore round the neck and chin.

  • bondsumbondsum
    edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    So, Jaws holding up Bond like a puppet, banging him against the ceiling while Bond himself is incapacitated, unable to fight back until he grabs a lamp, zaps him on the gnashers, followed by the slapstick breaking of a bolster wood chair over the back, then quick execution of a simple (and I must say obligatory Roger Moore) leg to the stomach and finally the two legged kick out the window by the seat of his pants is considered better than the DAF elevator fight scene? This is a poor attempt to replicate the FRWL train fight but it fails miserably. It only succeeds on its comedic qualities, nothing else. Next!!

    The 006 fight? Are you referring to the big climax in GE? Unless you're referring to the Xbox 360 game, that fight was pretty weak. Nope, didn't convince me. And nothing in DAD is any good. Sorry.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Yep. Still more exciting thanks to the towering Kiel which immediately makes Moore look more vulnerable.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Yep. Still more exciting thanks to the towering Kiel which immediately makes Moore look more vulnerable.
    Agreed although I really enjoy the DAF encounter as well for different reasons.
    bondsum wrote: »
    So, Jaws holding up Bond like a puppet, banging him against the ceiling while Bond himself is incapacitated, unable to fight back until he grabs a lamp, zaps him on the gnashers, followed by the slapstick breaking of a bolster wood chair over the back, then quick execution of a simple (and I must say obligatory Roger Moore) leg to the stomach and finally the two legged kick out the window by the seat of his pants is considered better than the DAF elevator fight scene? This is a poor attempt to replicate the FRWL train fight but it fails miserably. It only succeeds on its comedic qualities, nothing else. Next!!.
    I wouldn't say that TSWLM attempts to replicate or emulate FRWL except for both fights being in a cabin. Most of the Roger Moore fights have a lighter tone (even comedic, yes) more in tune with his portrayal and I enjoy them for that. The pacing is generally slower and they are less visceral in nature, but consistent with the overall approach.
    bondsum wrote: »
    The 006 fight? Are you referring to the big climax in GE? Unless you're referring to the Xbox 360 game, that fight was pretty weak. Nope, didn't convince me. And nothing in DAD is any good. Sorry.
    I think the GE fight is great and was a welcome return to form, but it is a bit over-choreographed in a juddery stop start fashion. So it lacks some fluidity, but is compelling due to the personal animosity between the two men which had been nicely built up since the PTS.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    Moore only looks vulnerable because he doesn't do anything while Jaw tosses him about like a rag doll. I also thinks, perhaps, you're confusing vulnerability with a good fight. Moore doesn't actually do any fighting in that sequence apart those what I highlighted. There's no real tension there because it's all too cartoonish. The scene where the thug on the roof, hanging onto his tie for dear life, until Moore whips it away from him is far better. But it's no DAF elevator fight scene either,
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited May 2018 Posts: 11,189
    That rooftop fight I find pretty hilarious. Mainly because of the unconvincing punches. The tie bit at the end redeems It though and is great.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,862
    I rewatched the elevator fight recently and was not too impressed.

    Anyway back on topic: apart from internet rumours, anything to back up Turner as Bond? Any sign any decision maker is actually even remotely interested about him?
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    I had to rewatch that TSWLM train fight again after giving it the @BAIN123 dissection treatment, and a couple of other things now stand out to me. Why doesn't Jaws bite Bond's fingers off as he's got them across his mouth? Also, why doesn't Jaws simply close his mouth rather than leaving it gaping open for Bond to zap with the exposed lamp element? I'm OK with the sped-up stuff but I was never a fan of that blurry slow-mo shot of Jaws going out the train window either. My my, I'm getting as pernickety as you @BAIN123.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Murdock wrote: »
    I'd rather see Bond having fun and soaking up the sights then being a brooding mope.

    +1
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    bondjames wrote: »
    I wouldn't say that TSWLM attempts to replicate or emulate FRWL except for both fights being in a cabin. Most of the Roger Moore fights have a lighter tone (even comedic, yes) more in tune with his portrayal and I enjoy them for that. The pacing is generally slower and they are less visceral in nature, but consistent with the overall approach.
    Replicate it most certainly does not. Ape, mimic, imitate it most certainly does try to do. It even has its own nod towards the train fight in LALD, where I think it's done so much better. Just for @BAIN123 I've included it below...

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Yes I like that LALD fight too @bondsum.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Anyway back on topic: apart from internet rumours, anything to back up Turner as Bond? Any sign any decision maker is actually even remotely interested about him?
    No more and no less interest or decisions on Turner than on any of the other candidates mentioned here, I should imagine.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited May 2018 Posts: 13,905
    Revelator wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    But... @Revelator ... I found him too stagey at times, in voice and action, and was weak throwing punches (physically, great face-- his body was like Kara's-- it was terrible... Fleming's Bond swam and did judo (even considered writing a book about self-defence)... Dalton's body looked like a 10 year old boy). He also lacked what I perceive as Bond's hedonism...

    By modern day standards (especially Craig's), Dalton's physique isn't great, but it was no worse than Moore's. And it's nothing time at the gym couldn't solve. I suppose Dalton was lighter on hedonism, but Craig wasn't much better, and after Roger overdid the foppery, lessened hedonism was a relief. I will grant none of Dalton's fistfights was impressive, but blame lies just as heavily on the director and stunt coordinators, and he didn't get many to fistfights to begin with. Plus in his other action scenes he moves well enough. As for staginess, I've never understood this complaint--Dalton seemed to me more natural and less stylized than his predecessors; when given the opportunity to show emotion he genuinely smouldered, as shown in his reactions to the deaths of Sanders and Della. And he also captured the melancholy, Byronic quality (as Kingsley Amis put it) of Bond better than any actor who has played the role.

    I should stop there, since I'm engaging in an old debate that will be never be concluded, but I will say that if Dalton was around 35 today, he would certainly be my pick for the next Bond. And if there are any actors around today who have his classic matinee idol looks and Byronic temperament, they would be ideal for the role. But I don't know of any who do.

    I disagree on Dalton's physique, he even had a better physique than Lazenby, who was the best fighter of all the Bonds. Craig might look like he could kick ass, but in a fight between him and Lazenby, my money would be on Lazenby. As for his fights, the only complaint I have, is that he didn't have many fights. Other than that, everything else you wrote, is just about the best defense of Dalton I have read.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,029
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Craig was expecting to be fired??? News to me.
    Yeah, I think @Mendes4Lyfe is just making stuff up now.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2229255/Daniel-Craig-admits-desperate-leave-James-Bond-franchise-ahead-Skyfall.html

    A classic example of how tabloids get rid of the context to make their own story. The Original source:
    https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/cover-story-excerpt-daniel-craig-the-man-behind-james-bond-20121109

    It's what one would call 'a figure of speech'. He says 'they won't let me'. How on earth would they stop him? Have mads stand ready with a rope (or even more classic: carpet beater) to stop him from going?

    Anyway, I'd vote for James D 'Arcy. I don't know anything about his acting but he played Ian Fleming himself before. Is the right age and looks the part imo.

    justquoting myself here to get this threat back on track, the fighting one is elsewhere..
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,862
    bondsum wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Anyway back on topic: apart from internet rumours, anything to back up Turner as Bond? Any sign any decision maker is actually even remotely interested about him?
    No more and no less interest or decisions on Turner than on any of the other candidates mentioned here, I should imagine.

    Sometimes I wonder if taking Craig back for one more is partially due to a lack of convincing candidates at the moment. Or at least Barb is not convinced by any of them.
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,899
    Based on the MI Fallout trailer, I'm wondering if MI is Henry Cavill's Bond audition so to speak.
    Let's not forget he almost landed the role for CR, but was deemed too young. Having got a list of well known films behind him, and looking bulked up and potentially Bondian, I wouldn't think its too far to imagine that he's on EON's radar.
    In the past actors that have missed the role have reappeared to win it later down the track. Pierce Brosnan and Dalton for example.
    He's also still young enough to credibly take on the role, and is a name that people know with a track record in popular movies. (And not just a TV star)
    I'd put money on him being on a shortlist. ;)
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,602
    I would put more money on him being on the short list for Tom's replacement.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Benny wrote: »
    Based on the MI Fallout trailer, I'm wondering if MI is Henry Cavill's Bond audition so to speak.
    Let's not forget he almost landed the role for CR, but was deemed too young. Having got a list of well known films behind him, and looking bulked up and potentially Bondian, I wouldn't think its too far to imagine that he's on EON's radar.
    In the past actors that have missed the role have reappeared to win it later down the track. Pierce Brosnan and Dalton for example.
    He's also still young enough to credibly take on the role, and is a name that people know with a track record in popular movies. (And not just a TV star)
    I'd put money on him being on a shortlist. ;)

    b29249973307fabbadfd3f0270736813.jpg
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,862
    Benny wrote: »
    Based on the MI Fallout trailer, I'm wondering if MI is Henry Cavill's Bond audition so to speak.
    Let's not forget he almost landed the role for CR, but was deemed too young. Having got a list of well known films behind him, and looking bulked up and potentially Bondian, I wouldn't think its too far to imagine that he's on EON's radar.
    In the past actors that have missed the role have reappeared to win it later down the track. Pierce Brosnan and Dalton for example.
    He's also still young enough to credibly take on the role, and is a name that people know with a track record in popular movies. (And not just a TV star)
    I'd put money on him being on a shortlist. ;)

    My money would have been on him a few years ago. Now after Superman and Man from UNCLE I'm not so sure.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Of all the actors reportedly in the frame he has the most traditional Bondian look. Honestly a large part of me wishes Campbell and Wilson had their way and he was cast in 2005 as Brozza's replacement. We could have gotten a lot of mileage out of him and he'd still have a few more left in him, unlike the current actor who was too old to be cast as a rookie in 2006.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,862
    bondjames wrote: »
    Of all the actors reportedly in the frame he has the most traditional Bondian look. Honestly a large part of me wishes Campbell and Wilson had their way and he was cast in 2005 as Brozza's replacement. We could have gotten a lot of mileage out of him and he'd still have a few more left in him, unlike the current actor who was too old to be cast as a rookie in 2006.

    I haven't seen him in many things but isn't he a bit wooden
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Of all the actors reportedly in the frame he has the most traditional Bondian look. Honestly a large part of me wishes Campbell and Wilson had their way and he was cast in 2005 as Brozza's replacement. We could have gotten a lot of mileage out of him and he'd still have a few more left in him, unlike the current actor who was too old to be cast as a rookie in 2006.

    I haven't seen him in many things but isn't he a bit wooden
    Definitely, but he is improving. He was pretty decent in the last Justice League film and at least from what I can tell, he is going to be impressive in the next MI. I didn't appreciate his attempts in Man From Uncle so much, but he was far better for me than Hammer who I think mucked up the whole effort.

    I'm quite certain that Campbell could have gotten the best out of him as he did from Brosnan and Craig. Pity we never had a chance to find out.
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