007: What would you have done differently?

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Comments

  • Posts: 15,785
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Before I start, CR has a lot of merits and it ranks in my top half. Nevertheless, I find it hugely overrated for the following reasons:

    I’d lose the Bond Begins angle, it feels like a faux Nolan. Some of the things I really liked about Dr No was that we immediately got 007 the way he is. That goes for the CR novel as well. It should have been that way in the film too.

    Speaking of the novel, it is infuriatingly superior to the film. Vesper’s death for instance is handled with subtlety. In the film it acts as an after thought and it is in the middle of an overblown action scene. Watch OHMSS again to do it right.

    Also, have Bond act as sophisticated as he should be. The brutish pleb we see in CR has nothing to do with Ian Fleming’s James Bond I’m afraid. Talking with his mouth full of food, acting smug to a waiter and all that pretended toughness is nowhere near the refined gentleman spy we would have got if they had understood who Bond is and should always be. Might as well have given him an orange Lamborghini instead of that beautiful Aston.

    Ow and one minor detail, linguists were clearly never involved in the making of CR. Yes Mr Wilson and Mrs Broccoli, you have a spelling mistake in your title. Casino Royale is correct in Fleming’s book because the casino is named after the fictional town Royale-les-Eaux where the book takes place. This is however not the case in the film which is supposed to take place somewhere in Montenegro and in which case one should drop the e in Royale because “casino” is a masculin word. Hence, it should be Casino Royal.

    Also, if you don’t go through the effort of changing all the Czech words on the surrounding shops in Montenegrin why don’t you just tell the audience where you really are, namely in the Czech Republic. Or even better go to France, keep the fictional town created by Fleming and your title is correct again. A bit sloppy if you ask me.

    I think CR is a good film because it can use so much Fleming and indeed the best part is the middle part which uses a lot of the book. Also Green, Mikkelsen and Gianninni are genuinely great actors and any film would benefit from their presence. I also think however, it could have been so much better if they had kept more of Fleming’s spirit instead of going full wannabe Nolan. But many were happy with how they did it, so I’m clearly in the minority. I’ll move over now.

    That sums up a lot of what I've been feeling about the film lately.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    A nigh on perfect Bond film. Everything works really well and it raised the bar considerably.

    The only change i would make is cutting that jarring moment in an otherwise brilliant scene when Vesper mentions Bond's watch. Product placement is one thing, but this is ridiculous.

    I don't have many Bond films with a top rating, but this was 5 out of 5 easily.

    I concur. The watch thing never bothered me, but then again the first meeting of Vesper and Bond is my favourite scene in the movie. Craig and Green really spark together. Would have liked this sequence to go on longer in fact!

    That sequence really sold me on Craig. He was so cool and Bondian in that scene. Even the way he pours the wine impressed me to the extent that i started using his technique after seeing the film!

    And true, it's a scene i wish could have been longer.
  • Posts: 6,727
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    A nigh on perfect Bond film. Everything works really well and it raised the bar considerably.

    The only change i would make is cutting that jarring moment in an otherwise brilliant scene when Vesper mentions Bond's watch. Product placement is one thing, but this is ridiculous.

    I don't have many Bond films with a top rating, but this was 5 out of 5 easily.

    I concur. The watch thing never bothered me, but then again the first meeting of Vesper and Bond is my favourite scene in the movie. Craig and Green really spark together. Would have liked this sequence to go on longer in fact!

    That sequence really sold me on Craig. He was so cool and Bondian in that scene. Even the way he pours the wine impressed me to the extent that i started using his technique after seeing the film!

    And true, it's a scene i wish could have been longer.

    I thought it was only me who started pouring wine like that!! When I did it first after seeing CR, the wife says to me "stop showing off!"
    And yes, Craig looks extremely cool in that segment! But I have to say the following sequence in the back of the car, he looks odd, the lighting and hairstyle are not right, but the "you're not my type" exchange is funny!
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    A nigh on perfect Bond film. Everything works really well and it raised the bar considerably.

    The only change i would make is cutting that jarring moment in an otherwise brilliant scene when Vesper mentions Bond's watch. Product placement is one thing, but this is ridiculous.

    I don't have many Bond films with a top rating, but this was 5 out of 5 easily.

    I concur. The watch thing never bothered me, but then again the first meeting of Vesper and Bond is my favourite scene in the movie. Craig and Green really spark together. Would have liked this sequence to go on longer in fact!

    That sequence really sold me on Craig. He was so cool and Bondian in that scene. Even the way he pours the wine impressed me to the extent that i started using his technique after seeing the film!

    And true, it's a scene i wish could have been longer.

    I thought it was only me who started pouring wine like that!! When I did it first after seeing CR, the wife says to me "stop showing off!"
    And yes, Craig looks extremely cool in that segment! But I have to say the following sequence in the back of the car, he looks odd, the lighting and hairstyle are not right, but the "you're not my type" exchange is funny!

    It's funny how things in movies influence us in little ways!
  • Posts: 2,887
    I agree with Birdleson and GoldenGun's suggestions and find them full of good sense. I will elaborate on some and add a few of my own.

    I also view CR as one of the best films in the entire series, and certainly one of the most important (and by far the most critically acclaimed). That said, much of the novelty of the film has been worn away by every succeeding Bond film also being "personal."

    I first read Casino Royale in 1993 and spent more than a decade hoping to see adapted. Perhaps all those years of waiting and trying to visualize such an adaptation meant I would feel an inevitable feeling of slight disappointment when the film materialized as last. It's a top-notch Bond film but far from a flawless adaptation.

    In a few ways it greatly improved on Fleming. Movie Vesper is far more of a human being than Fleming's. In other ways it watered down Fleming. My suggestions (which might be controversial):

    * Lose the Aston Martin backstory. Casino Royale is already a long film and doesn't need an origin story for a car, especially since in Goldfinger it was simply assigned to Bond.

    * Either lose the rookie agent gimmick (which isn't that convincing with a weathered tough-guy like Craig) or lose the scenes of Bond acting like a yobbo and learning to be suave. We don't need a Bond Begins explanation for what comes naturally to the character.

    * Cut that "does it look like I give a damn?" line. If Bond didn't feel like giving instructions to the barman then he would have ordered a simple drink.

    * Lose the on-the-nose dialogue, such as the "stripped armor" stuff. It's unnecessary!

    * Lose the convoluted, hard-to-parse farrago about Mathis being a double. It's an unnecessary complication and poor use of a good character played by a good actor. And while I know there wouldn't have been enough time for stage the "nature of evil" conversation between Bond and Mathis, couldn't a few highlights have been used during Bond's recuperation? It would improve the film's perfunctory resignation email scene.

    * Swap poker for baccarat, as in the novel. This would spare us Mathis's expository interruptions. Baccarat is also much easier to explain and show onscreen than poker, so put in a charming scene of Bond showing Vesper the rules--which wouldn't take more than a minute--and then the audience will be able to follow the big card game without commentary.

    * Lose the wisecracks in the torture scene. The point of the original scene is that it drives Bond to the point of collapse, where he can't even find the energy to make a witty remark. We should be scared to see Bond fall to this level, not laughing at his zingers.

    * I realize that audiences would get antsy without any action in the last part of the film, but like Birdleson I think Vesper's suicide should have greater distance from it. Why not have Bond and Vesper defeat the seemingly-last bit of danger from the leftover villains, enjoy a bit of happiness, and then spring the suicide on us? That would be more poignant. In the book Bond and Vesper's relationship seems on the rocks, but then shifts to a brief night of bliss before her suicide, which makes it sting even more. Also, in Purvis and Wade's version Vesper left a videotaped suicide note for Bond (which reminds of the VHS tape marked Vesper in Spectre)--I think that would have been a good idea, and would have really rubbed in how blind Bond was and how much damage Vesper did.

    * I'm of two minds about the ending. Plainly audiences and fans loved it, which is a very good reason to keep it! But to me it is aggravating act of pandering. It lightens a bleak tragedy into something of a victory by grafting on a badass moment (007 standing over his fallen enemy with a 50 foot gun, saying "Bond, James Bond").
    In the book Bond doesn't get the bad guys, and Vesper's death doesn't lead to their capture. Instead Bond is humiliated, consumed with rage, and strips himself of his humanity. The book ends with a shocking slap to the reader's face: "The bitch is dead now." Can you imagine if the film had ended with that and cut to black? It would have been ballsy...and alienated large parts of the audience. The original ending of CR is even more of a "downer" ending than that of OHMSS. So I understand the rationale of giving the film a semi-victorious ending. But in my world the director's cut have an ending as harsh and bereft of comfort as the book's.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,914
    Either way Vesper's death energizes him for more missions. Presenting that in a positive light with Bond fully committing to OO duties was one of several smart improvements made from book to film. What a treat for audiences, a great movie viewing moment for the ages.

  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited January 2019 Posts: 12,914
    TR007 wrote: »
    It also bothered me in the restaurant scene how Bond suddenly suspects Mathis and jumps into action to save Vesper. That’s always confused me. What tipped him off? What went through his head there? It was never very clear and always bugged me.
    It's literally by the book, if I can string those words together, @TR007.


    Casino Royale, Ian Fleming, 1953.
    Chapter 14 - "La Vie en Rose?"
    ...
    At four o'clock Bond was about to call for the bill when the maître d'hôtel appeared at their table and inquired for Miss Lynd. He handed her a note which she took and read hastily.

    'Oh, it's only Mathis,' she said. 'He says would I come to the entrance hall. He's got a message for you. Perhaps he's not in evening clothes or something. I won't be a minute. Then perhaps we could go home.'

    She gave him a strained smile. 'I'm afraid I don't feel very good company this evening. It's been rather a nerve-racking day. I'm so sorry.'

    Bond made a perfunctory reply and rose, pushing back the table. 'I'll get the bill,' he said, and watched her take the few steps to the entrance.

    He sat down and lit a cigarette. He felt flat. He suddenly realized that he was tired. The stuffiness of the room hit him as it had hit him in the Casino in the early hours of the previous day. He called for the bill and took a last mouthful of champagne. It tasted bitter, as the first glass too many always does. He would have liked to have seen Mathis's cheerful face and heard his news, perhaps even a word of congratulation.

    Suddenly the note to Vesper seemed odd to him. It was not the way Mathis would do things. He would have asked them both to join him at the bar of the Casino or he would have joined them in the night club, whatever his clothes. They would have laughed together and Mathis would have been excited. He had much to tell Bond, more than Bond had to tell him. The arrest of the Bulgarian, who had probably talked some more; the chase after the man with the stick; Le Chiffre's movements when he left the Casino.

    Bond shook himself. He hastily paid the bill, not waiting for the change. He pushed back his table and walked quickly through the entrance without acknowledging the good nights of the maître d'hôtel and the doorman.

    He hurried through the gaming room and looked carefully up and down the long entrance hall. He cursed and quickened his step. There were only one or two officials and two or three men and women in evening clothes getting their things at the vestiaire.

    No Vesper. No Mathis.

    He was almost running. He got to the entrance and looked along the steps to left and right down and amongst the few remaining cars.

    The commissionaire came towards him.

    'A taxi, monsieur?'

    Bond waved him aside and started down the steps, his eyes staring into the shadows, the night air cold on his sweating temples.

    He was half way down when he heard a faint cry, then the slam of a door way to the right. With a harsh growl and stutter from the exhaust a beetle browed Citroën shot out of the shadows into the light of the moon, its front wheel drive dry skidding through the loose pebbles of the forecourt.

    Its tail rocked on its soft springs as if a violent struggle was taking place on the back seat.

    With a snarl it raced out to the wide entrance gate in a spray of gravel. A small black object shot out of an open rear window and thudded into a flower bed. There was a scream of tortured rubber as the tyres caught the boulevard in a harsh left handed turn, the deafening echo of a Citroën's exhaust in second gear, a crash into top, then a swiftly diminishing crackle as the car hared off between the shops on the main street towards the coast road.

    Bond knew he would find Vesper's evening bag among the flowers.

    He ran back with it across the gravel to the brightly lit steps and scrabbled through its contents while the commissionaire hovered round him.

    The crumpled note was there amongst the usual feminine baggage.

    Can you come out to the entrance hall for a moment?
    I have news for your companion.

    RENÉ MATHIS

    Chapter 15 - Black Hare and Grey Hound

    It was the crudest possible forgery.

    Bond leapt for the Bentley, blessing the impulse which had made him drive it over after dinner. With the choke full out, the engine answered at once to the starter and the roar drowned the faltering words of the commissionaire who jumped aside as the rear wheels whipped gravel at his piped trouser legs.
    csr_14437154523.jpg

  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    The makers had a difficult job straddling what the public had come to expect from a Bond film and adapting the book.

    Personally i was amazed at how faithful to the novel the film was.

    A tremendous job by the makers and cast.

    A Bond film for the fans and the general public.
  • Posts: 2,887
    Either way Vesper's death energizes him for more missions. Presenting that in a positive light with Bond fully committing to OO duties was one of several smart improvements made from book to film.

    We'll have to disagree on this point. Vesper's death doesn't energize him--what does is the fact that she has been a double-agent controlled by an agency that thoroughly duped and humiliated Bond. He vows revenge, but his feelings for Vesper are dead. Fleming gives no consolation in Bond quickly getting revenge, because the book ends with him in defeat, screaming into a phone booth.
    The film is much soppier. Bond manages to get revenge and gloat over one of his enemies at the very end, and even Vesper partially redeems herself by giving Bond useful information to catch Mr. White. I don't like the idea of turning a sad ending into a partly victorious one--I consider it a weak-kneed disimprovement--but the audience did.
  • Posts: 1,165
    TR007 wrote: »
    It also bothered me in the restaurant scene how Bond suddenly suspects Mathis and jumps into action to save Vesper. That’s always confused me. What tipped him off? What went through his head there? It was never very clear and always bugged me.
    It's literally by the book, if I can string those words together, @TR007.


    Casino Royale, Ian Fleming, 1953.
    Chapter 14 - "La Vie en Rose?"
    ...
    At four o'clock Bond was about to call for the bill when the maître d'hôtel appeared at their table and inquired for Miss Lynd. He handed her a note which she took and read hastily.

    'Oh, it's only Mathis,' she said. 'He says would I come to the entrance hall. He's got a message for you. Perhaps he's not in evening clothes or something. I won't be a minute. Then perhaps we could go home.'

    She gave him a strained smile. 'I'm afraid I don't feel very good company this evening. It's been rather a nerve-racking day. I'm so sorry.'

    Bond made a perfunctory reply and rose, pushing back the table. 'I'll get the bill,' he said, and watched her take the few steps to the entrance.

    He sat down and lit a cigarette. He felt flat. He suddenly realized that he was tired. The stuffiness of the room hit him as it had hit him in the Casino in the early hours of the previous day. He called for the bill and took a last mouthful of champagne. It tasted bitter, as the first glass too many always does. He would have liked to have seen Mathis's cheerful face and heard his news, perhaps even a word of congratulation.

    Suddenly the note to Vesper seemed odd to him. It was not the way Mathis would do things. He would have asked them both to join him at the bar of the Casino or he would have joined them in the night club, whatever his clothes. They would have laughed together and Mathis would have been excited. He had much to tell Bond, more than Bond had to tell him. The arrest of the Bulgarian, who had probably talked some more; the chase after the man with the stick; Le Chiffre's movements when he left the Casino.

    Bond shook himself. He hastily paid the bill, not waiting for the change. He pushed back his table and walked quickly through the entrance without acknowledging the good nights of the maître d'hôtel and the doorman.

    He hurried through the gaming room and looked carefully up and down the long entrance hall. He cursed and quickened his step. There were only one or two officials and two or three men and women in evening clothes getting their things at the vestiaire.

    No Vesper. No Mathis.

    He was almost running. He got to the entrance and looked along the steps to left and right down and amongst the few remaining cars.

    The commissionaire came towards him.

    'A taxi, monsieur?'

    Bond waved him aside and started down the steps, his eyes staring into the shadows, the night air cold on his sweating temples.

    He was half way down when he heard a faint cry, then the slam of a door way to the right. With a harsh growl and stutter from the exhaust a beetle browed Citroën shot out of the shadows into the light of the moon, its front wheel drive dry skidding through the loose pebbles of the forecourt.

    Its tail rocked on its soft springs as if a violent struggle was taking place on the back seat.

    With a snarl it raced out to the wide entrance gate in a spray of gravel. A small black object shot out of an open rear window and thudded into a flower bed. There was a scream of tortured rubber as the tyres caught the boulevard in a harsh left handed turn, the deafening echo of a Citroën's exhaust in second gear, a crash into top, then a swiftly diminishing crackle as the car hared off between the shops on the main street towards the coast road.

    Bond knew he would find Vesper's evening bag among the flowers.

    He ran back with it across the gravel to the brightly lit steps and scrabbled through its contents while the commissionaire hovered round him.

    The crumpled note was there amongst the usual feminine baggage.

    Can you come out to the entrance hall for a moment?
    I have news for your companion.

    RENÉ MATHIS

    Chapter 15 - Black Hare and Grey Hound

    It was the crudest possible forgery.

    Bond leapt for the Bentley, blessing the impulse which had made him drive it over after dinner. With the choke full out, the engine answered at once to the starter and the roar drowned the faltering words of the commissionaire who jumped aside as the rear wheels whipped gravel at his piped trouser legs.
    csr_14437154523.jpg
    Yes, I’m very familiar with the book, but it doesn’t translate to film. It’s very sloppy and confusing the way it was handled.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,914
    Okay, regarding Mathis to me Bond's reactions in the restaurant make sense in the same way. In the absence of the book I might feel differently.


    When I say energized after Vesper's death yes that's with the betrayal rolled in, and specifically I mean energized to go after the bad guys (instead of leaving the Service). After many missions the On Her Majesty's Secret Service story serves the same purpose.

    And beyond Bond's stoic final reaction in the book, of course he does maintain feelings for Vesper as revealed many books later. So I think it plays out beautifully in book and film.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    edited January 2019 Posts: 4,382
    I understood the use of poker to baccarat. Poker was extremely popular at the time.
  • edited January 2019 Posts: 591
    Hey guys, who's ready? It's the James Bond film that everyone loves to hate. It's Daniel Craig's second James Bond adventure, QUANTUM OF SOLACE.

    quantum_of_solace_daniel_craig_4134x3100_.jpg

    This is your chance to say whatever you would have differently witH the film, so things like; plot changes, character additions or subtractions.

    Anything you like. People will be given the chance to give their responses within 7 DAYS from today (this may change so let me know if you want me to extend the time for longer) until the discussion moves on to the next James Bond film. This will run until we reach SKYFALL as a discussion for SPECTRE already exists.

    Hope you guys enjoy hearing everyone's responses!
  • Posts: 2,887
    I understood the use of poker to baccarat. Poker was extremely popular at the time.

    Yes, that's correct. But I think Bond films at their best should create trends instead of following them. Had the film chosen differently, casinos might have experienced a baccarat craze instead.
    I've also heard that the Texas Hold 'Em was chosen because Michael Wilson is a big poker fan. But the game has never been a Bondian one, and was never played by him before. Fleming would have probably considered it too American. He made Bond play games he personally enjoyed: bridge, baccarat, blackjack, roulette, etc.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,914
    Opening with the gunbarrel would have made this great Bond film irresistible to many of the detractors at the time of its release.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    edited January 2019 Posts: 1,532
    .Begin the film with a quote from the short story explaining the title. I stole that from another site. Afterwards, this version of the gun barrel sequence plays.


    .Slow down the editing during the Mitchell chase.

    .Include a few more scenes with Fields and Guy Haines.

    .Redo the freefall scene with actual stuntmen. Very little CGI.

    .Keep the original ending with Mr. White and Haines. Quantum ends here.

    I love this movie.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,532
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    Begin the film with a quote from the short story explaining the title.

    I forgot to add that (not at the beginning though). Originally, I understand, Mathis was supposed to relate an abbreviated version of the story to Bond on their flight to South America. I would have love that. I'll add that above.


    Remington wrote: »
    .Keep the original ending with Mr. White and Haines. Quantum ends here..

    Much as seeing Mr. White return was one of the few positive bits of SP for me, I agree with you.

    I'd have loved to see Mr. White return but I hated how they used him in SP.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    Ooh ahh, QoS, one of the most misunderstood of the Bond films. There is a lot here that works, though, particularly the dramatic moments and the ending.

    Change the title song and get Danny Kleinman back. Get rid of the stupid city fonts.

    Go full in on the Bond/Mathis/dead Vesper storyline instead of it feeling like a subplot. That's what everyone wants to see. Make White/Greene more openly toying with Bond about Vesper. No one cares about the water storyline. Give Fields more to do.

    Slow down the editing, particularly the PTS and the Siena chase. Rethink the boat and plane chases--are they really needed? Could they be more compelling? The film could still be GF-short but fill it with more dramatic/romantic scenes with Mathis and Fields, not empty action sequences.

    Slow down on the locations. Pick two or three at most and let Bond spend significant time there.

    For God's sake let him sleep with Camille at the end. Bond's earned it.

    I'm sure I'll think of more.
  • Posts: 1,879
    First off, I disagree that QoS is the film everyone loves to hate as stated in the introduction. I've seen it gain momentum recently, evolving into one of the underrated films in the series by a lot of fans on these boards and polarizing would be a more fitting description at this point.

    As far as changes:

    -I'd take out or at least refocus both the boat chase and plane fight. Neither are memorable and a real mess. Neither adds to the excitement of the film for me and just seem a case of insert action scene here.

    -The freefall from the plane is one of the most egregious examples of Bond as indestructible superhero. Back in the Moore or Brosnan days it would be more forgivable. But given all the torturous physical experiences Craig Bond endures through in his tenure, this one should have been rethought or eliminated altogether as it's something Jaws would've walked away from and shouldn't be something Bond just survives like a cartoon character.

    -Personally, I hate and would lose the scene with the young woman at the hotel who gets assaulted by Medrano. We are already told of his sordid past and what he was responsible for with Camille's family, so we didn't need this to already want to see him done in.

    It's been a while since I've watched QoS, so these are the only ones that really stick with me for now.
  • Posts: 4,023
    A lot is said about the editing being off, but I think it is generally fine. Maybe it seemed harder to watch on the big screen.

    The battle between Bond and Mitchell works well but the one part where it fails is Bond’s rooftop jump across the street. Craig actually does the jump, and it looks great in the BTS, but as presented it makes it look like a stuntman has done it. I’d rejig that bit.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    Wouldn't change much on QoS

    The obvious thing is that the gun barrel was sorely missed at the start. It's that one thing that starts a Bond film with a (literal) bang. Big mistake on the makers part.

    Wouldn't have minded a longer Mr. White interrogation scene. It's not long after the PTS and it's straight into another big action sequence.

    I like the length of the film. Its a lean mean Bond film that works in its favour. I like the editing myself, although the much talked about 'boat flip' looks like it needed an extra couple of frames to explain why the boat actually somersaults like it does.

    That about does it i think....

    It's the one Craig film i have watched the most and it sits nicely in my top ten Bond films.

  • Posts: 6,727
    Oh, I definitely wouldn't change much about QOS! Love it. The only part of the editing I'd fix is the early part of the Mitchell chase, in the sewers, it's far too jumbled there!
    I don't think I agree with Bond sleeping with Camille. Just don't think it would have worked in this context.
    More of Greg Beam character, he was a wonderful role.
    One minor thing that's always bugged me, I would have liked a better intro for Greene. I think it's too low key just sitting at a desk stamping!
    I don't even mind the skydive, and the plane chase I think is excellent! And the ending is superb! So very little I would change.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,532
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Oh, I definitely wouldn't change much about QOS! Love it. The only part of the editing I'd fix is the early part of the Mitchell chase, in the sewers, it's far too jumbled there!
    I don't think I agree with Bond sleeping with Camille. Just don't think it would have worked in this context.
    More of Greg Beam character, he was a wonderful role.
    One minor thing that's always bugged me, I would have liked a better intro for Greene. I think it's too low key just sitting at a desk stamping!
    I don't even mind the skydive, and the plane chase I think is excellent! And the ending is superb! So very little I would change.

    I wouldn't have minded if Greene's introduction was the interrogation/torture of the geologist who gives up Camille.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Birdleson wrote: »
    - Gun Barrel at the start: pretty universal complaint, that one. And Craig needs to slow the Hell down.
    -Originally, I understand, Mathis was going to relate an abbreviated version of the story to Bond during their flight to South America. I would have love that.
    - Give us the damned "Bond, James Bond".

    Agreed about these.

    I would fix the shaky cam, especially during the car chase, and I would make the movie 15-20 minutes longer to let it breathe.

    Anything else about the movie is fine as far as I'm concerned.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2019 Posts: 5,921
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I care about the water storyline. It’s the Vesper angle that gets overplayed for me, if anything is.

    Did Vesper feel outplayed to you in 2008? I agree she did by the time we reached SP.

    The water storyline just feels very regional. Is this Quantum's test run to take over all of South America, and eventually the world? Then show us that. This would have been an opportunity to use Mathis and Fields (and Leiter?) more; I think many people agree that the film could have used more time for those characters.

    Let's talk about Camille.

    I agree that there is too much malevolent Medrano with other characters (a little of him goes a long way). But I like his final confrontation with Camille.

    The repartee between Bond and Camille throughout the film--and their chemistry--"Get in" comes to mind--is strong. More of this would be good.

    I think Camille's moments in the burning building are a bit too quick, as they are really important to understanding her character. Bond helps her get past her psychological trauma, and she helps him figure out the solace that he needs. Their relationship in the film could have used more time to breathe and develop.

    Which is all the more reason I think they should have slept together toward the end. That would bring the character in line with the character we know and love.

    I get that Forster was deconstructing the Bond formula: the four elements, the final confrontation with the villain where Bond doesn't immediately kill him, Bond not sleeping with the main love interest...

    And yet I think by the end, Bond has earned the formula. So now allow him a Bondian moment with Camille.

    QoS is a fascinating film in the Bond canon. Every time there is a misstep it then self-corrects, and vice versa. And the ending is one of the absolute best.
  • Posts: 6,727
    Remington wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Oh, I definitely wouldn't change much about QOS! Love it. The only part of the editing I'd fix is the early part of the Mitchell chase, in the sewers, it's far too jumbled there!
    I don't think I agree with Bond sleeping with Camille. Just don't think it would have worked in this context.
    More of Greg Beam character, he was a wonderful role.
    One minor thing that's always bugged me, I would have liked a better intro for Greene. I think it's too low key just sitting at a desk stamping!
    I don't even mind the skydive, and the plane chase I think is excellent! And the ending is superb! So very little I would change.

    I wouldn't have minded if Greene's introduction was the interrogation/torture of the geologist who gives up Camille.

    I was actually thinking the same thing. Would have been much better than what we got!
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited January 2019 Posts: 5,834
    Did anyone else feel that Eve was there chance to fix what they got wrong with Strawberry Fields? It just seemed like Eve was the Bond girl Fields should've been.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    echo wrote: »
    Which is all the more reason I think they should have slept together toward the end. That would bring the character in line with the character we know and love.

    I disagree, and I'm so glad he didn't sleep with Camille at the end. Even if they did, the scene would have no place in the movie.
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Did anyone else feel that Eve was there chance to fix what they got wrong with Strawberry Fields? It just seemed like Eve was the Bond girl Fields should've been.

    I'd take Fields over Eve any day.
  • Posts: 7,653
    It is the first time in the Craig movies where Bond falls from a height and survives, als the stunt in this movie are mostly edited to death, allow them some more breathing space and the footchase through Sienna was done already better in the Last of the Bourne trilogy.
    The plot made sense in these modern times when water as such can be used as a bargaining tool, this movie felt more like an assault on the power of the big companies that buy everything they want in order to better themselves over the head of the average citizen. I found that a more realistic story than the SF & SP story-lines we got next.
  • Posts: 6,682
    Remington wrote: »
    this version of the gun barrel sequence plays.
    Love it. Like in the video, I would've greatly preferred if they had placed the gunbarrel at the beginning and chose instead to play with the formula by not playing the Bond theme at all.

    Birdleson wrote: »
    I care about the water storyline.
    Me too.

    Birdleson wrote: »
    Originally, I understand, Mathis was going to relate an abbreviated version of the story to Bond during their flight to South America. I would have love that.
    Same here. And that would've encouraged them to the name of the organization or keep it unnamed.

    ---

    An observation on the editing of the action scenes: Cut as they are, I can understand what is happening in them. That doesn't mean I enjoy them, though. Not as much as I would with different editing, anyway.

    One thing I would change in the film would be to somehow avoid having M showing up everywhere. Especially at the end. Yes, it makes dramatic sense for her to have that conversation with Bond, and it would be hard to alter the scene so that M wasn't there, but when I watch it I can't help but think "why did M need to travel to Russia?"
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