Controversial opinions about other movies

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  • Posts: 7,653
    jobo wrote: »
    Lets not pretend it is only a generational thing. I have encountered people in their 50s claim Tarantino´s films are not action packed enough for them. Not least on this very thread...

    I am not a great QT fan but I like watching B/W movies, my dislike has nothing to do with the action scenes.

    That said I prefer the b/w movies mostly due to their lack of crazy editing.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Certainly controversial to call James Cameron overrated. Surely on of the best action directors in the history of cinema.

    I agree on Titanic being a silly overblown effort. But I really like Avatar for all its unoriginal plot shenanigans, it's still a stunning film.

    But no one can argue against The Terminator, T2 and Aliens being brilliant offerings.

    I also love The Abyss and True Lies although they do have faults.


    No one can argue?? I certainly could!

    - "Surely one of the best action directors in the history of cinema"

    That one made me laugh! ;))

    Name me a better action director. And if it's Michael Bay then do please jog on.


    Quentin Tarantino, J. J. Abrams, John Woo, George Miller, Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott are the first names that pop up in my head. I could go on, but I don't really see the point. Lets throw Spielberg in there too, even if this all started with me claiming he was overrated. I'd take him every day over Cameron...

    George Miller may come close, but the rest of those aren't specifically known as action director's. Apart from John Woo of course who's action is too OTT to be taken seriously.

    In the action stakes Cameron is king.

    At least you didn't list Michael Bay....


    Sorry, I thought we were rating the ability to direct an action scene, not how many action scenes you can cramp into a film... my bad.

    Where did I mention that? Doesn't matter how much action is in a film, Cameron is the best full stop IMO.

    As I mentioned before, his flood channel chase in T2 is better than most director's entire action oeuvre.

    And if you're not convinced watch the helicopter sequence along the bridge in Florida in True Lies for how good this guy is.

    But then if I'd mentioned one of those other director's were the best I would have got the same response from you. You just like being contrary because that's your 'thing'
  • He doesn’t have time to watch True Lies. He’s too busy revisiting his favorite film, Star Wars: The Force Awakens.
  • Posts: 7,500
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Certainly controversial to call James Cameron overrated. Surely on of the best action directors in the history of cinema.

    I agree on Titanic being a silly overblown effort. But I really like Avatar for all its unoriginal plot shenanigans, it's still a stunning film.

    But no one can argue against The Terminator, T2 and Aliens being brilliant offerings.

    I also love The Abyss and True Lies although they do have faults.


    No one can argue?? I certainly could!

    - "Surely one of the best action directors in the history of cinema"

    That one made me laugh! ;))

    Name me a better action director. And if it's Michael Bay then do please jog on.


    Quentin Tarantino, J. J. Abrams, John Woo, George Miller, Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott are the first names that pop up in my head. I could go on, but I don't really see the point. Lets throw Spielberg in there too, even if this all started with me claiming he was overrated. I'd take him every day over Cameron...

    George Miller may come close, but the rest of those aren't specifically known as action director's. Apart from John Woo of course who's action is too OTT to be taken seriously.

    In the action stakes Cameron is king.

    At least you didn't list Michael Bay....


    Sorry, I thought we were rating the ability to direct an action scene, not how many action scenes you can cramp into a film... my bad.

    Where did I mention that? Doesn't matter how much action is in a film, Cameron is the best full stop IMO.

    As I mentioned before, his flood channel chase in T2 is better than most director's entire action oeuvre.

    And if you're not convinced watch the helicopter sequence along the bridge in Florida in True Lies for how good this guy is.

    But then if I'd mentioned one of those other director's were the best I would have got the same response from you. You just like being contrary because that's your 'thing'


    I have no interesti in watching T2. T1 was enough...


    True Lies I will have check out. My expectations are low... But who knows.
    Mack_Bolan wrote: »
    He doesn’t have time to watch True Lies. He’s too busy revisiting his favorite film, Star Wars: The Force Awakens.


    As usual you have no idea what you are talking about...
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 377
    So you haven’t watched Terminator 2 or True Lies, and yet you go around criticizing James Cameron. You criticize from a position of ignorance.
  • Posts: 7,500
    Mack_Bolan wrote: »
    So you haven’t watched Terminator 2 or True Lies, and yet you go around criticizing James Cameron. You criticize from a position of ignorance.


    So you have to watch every single film a director has made in order to have an opinion on him? That's ridiculous and you know it.
  • What’s ridiculous is mocking a director when you haven’t even seen the films they are best known for. It’s like laughing at John McTiernan without having seen Die Hard.
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 7,500
    Mack_Bolan wrote: »
    What’s ridiculous is mocking a director when you haven’t even seen the films they are best known for. It’s like laughing at John McTiernan without having seen Die Hard.


    Firstly I never mocked James Cameron, I mocked the notion that him being "one of the best action director's ever cannot be argued with". Of course you can!

    Secondly, as far as I know The Terminator (nr1), Titanic and Avatar are by far his most well known movies. Those I have seen... and I didn't like any of them, I'm sorry.

    With such a talent for constructing strawmen, I suggest you buy a farm!
  • jobo wrote: »

    Cameron is commercialism personified. He knows what emotional boxes to tick with the audience and churns out soulless, hollow blockbusters. His films are the cinema equivalents to McDonalds, Coca Cola, Starbucks etc. Wildly succesfull brands around the world. However, if you are really into good food, drink and coffee, you actively avoid them as much as possible!

    Yeah, you didn’t mock Cameron at all.
  • Posts: 17,288
    peter wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    I've never particularly enjoyed the Terminator films. Might be a genre thing, but still.


    The only reason that film exists is so we can make parodies of it an silly references in comedies and cartoons ;)

    It's films that screams silly references. Not that there's anything wrong with that though. :)

    I agree with that. But the films are in all honesty mostly remembered for Arnold's German accent... ;)

    Austrian! :D

    It's the same language... I have never met an Austrian who says he speaks Austrian. German is what they speak.

    I'm not a German expert, but aren't there some differences between the Austrian and German accents? Not that it's necessarily noticeable when talking English, only with an accent, of course!

    Of course there is a difference in the language it is Austrian German like Schweitzerdeutch is something else too.

    The Terminator is and remains an icon character, especially played by Arnold.

    Just like bavarian German is different... it is basically a dialect.

    But we are moving off topic...

    Sorry, mods!
    _____________________
    I agree about Tarantino's work with action sequences. They are always very enjoyable. I also enjoy Guy Ritchie's action sequences. That should be controversial enough for some!

    Unfortunately his action scenes don't last 40 minutes to an hour, so they are not heavy enough for some of the junkies on here...

    Reminds me of when I watched Inglourious Basterds at the theatre, and a group of people left midway through the film because of "all the talking".

    The ADHD generation: too much sugar, too many soundbites, click-bait, tweets; self-absorption and entitled gratification. No focus.

    They were adults, actually!
  • Posts: 6,814
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Certainly controversial to call James Cameron overrated. Surely on of the best action directors in the history of cinema.

    I agree on Titanic being a silly overblown effort. But I really like Avatar for all its unoriginal plot shenanigans, it's still a stunning film.

    But no one can argue against The Terminator, T2 and Aliens being brilliant offerings.

    I also love The Abyss and True Lies although they do have faults.


    No one can argue?? I certainly could!

    - "Surely one of the best action directors in the history of cinema"

    That one made me laugh! ;))

    Name me a better action director. And if it's Michael Bay then do please jog on.


    Quentin Tarantino, J. J. Abrams, John Woo, George Miller, Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott are the first names that pop up in my head. I could go on, but I don't really see the point. Lets throw Spielberg in there too, even if this all started with me claiming he was overrated. I'd take him every day over Cameron...

    George Miller may come close, but the rest of those aren't specifically known as action director's. Apart from John Woo of course who's action is too OTT to be taken seriously.

    In the action stakes Cameron is king.

    At least you didn't list Michael Bay....

    I think the best action directors were from the 60/70s era. Don Siegel, Sam Peckinpah, Walter Hill, John Frankenheimar.
    Sydney Pollack, not really known for being an action director, did some great action (The Yakuza, Three Days of the Condor, Jeremiah Johnson!)
    Regarding Cameron, I do think he's over-rated, but he has done some fine action sequences ( and most of them are in T2!)
    It's a joke to put the likes of Michael Bay anywhere near those guys!
  • Posts: 7,653
    Not a joke but rather insulting.
  • Posts: 14,831
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Today's audiences are too use to the Marvel Cinematic Universe style of things. Poor villains, commercials for each other, mostly forgotten within a few minutes after watching.

    I can't wait for the superhero craze to be over.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Today's audiences are too use to the Marvel Cinematic Universe style of things. Poor villains, commercials for each other, mostly forgotten within a few minutes after watching.

    I can't wait for the superhero craze to be over.

    Me too.
  • Posts: 12,269
    Same here! Glad to see I'm not the only one sick of all the superhero stuff. Every now and then there'll be one I enjoy, but for every good one there's at least 5 I don't care for. It's just become so predictable and stale.
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 17,288
    Is there any indication that there will be less superhero films the next few years? Feels like there's a new one out each month.
  • Posts: 14,831
    Is there any indication that there will be less superhero films the next few years? Feels like there's a new one out each month.

    It took a while for the musical genre to die down but it did in the end and apparently very suddenly.

    Superhero movie sagas is for me a case of be careful what you wish for. As a kid I wanted badly to see superhero movies succeed, I mean not only Batman and Superman but the more obscure ones. By the time it happened and Marvel became the juggernaut we now have, I had stopped caring.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Same here! Glad to see I'm not the only one sick of all the superhero stuff. Every now and then there'll be one I enjoy, but for every good one there's at least 5 I don't care for. It's just become so predictable and stale.

    Yeah there's one I enjoy every now and again, then there are a bunch I don't care for. Marvel has gotten really stale in it's action scenes. Like five of them in a row have some kind of battle on a highway.
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 17,288
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Is there any indication that there will be less superhero films the next few years? Feels like there's a new one out each month.

    It took a while for the musical genre to die down but it did in the end and apparently very suddenly.

    Superhero movie sagas is for me a case of be careful what you wish for. As a kid I wanted badly to see superhero movies succeed, I mean not only Batman and Superman but the more obscure ones. By the time it happened and Marvel became the juggernaut we now have, I had stopped caring.

    Was there a musical craze? Didn't even notice!
    Agree, the amount of superhero films we have now would have been fantastic as a kid, but these days it's easy to feel that there's just too many of them.
  • Posts: 7,653
    I do not mind the superhero movies, there are plenty of other movies if you are not interested in the superhero movies, nobody forces you to watch them.

    I find the complaining about movies one does not like hypocritical, if you do not want to watch them then do not complain about them. It is like complaining about the romantic nature of the Hallmark tv movies and series, which is basically their field of operation.

  • edited October 2018 Posts: 12,269
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I do not mind the superhero movies, there are plenty of other movies if you are not interested in the superhero movies, nobody forces you to watch them.

    I find the complaining about movies one does not like hypocritical, if you do not want to watch them then do not complain about them. It is like complaining about the romantic nature of the Hallmark tv movies and series, which is basically their field of operation.

    It’s the fad that’s annoying to me above all other things. Hearing about them all the time anywhere I go. I wish attention to other movies would be more evenly distributed along with the superhero films. They seem to just overshadow almost everything else over the last several years.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    It's not about not liking them, there's too many at once. It's like being given a cheeseburger and before you finish it, here's a dozen more just waiting for you to eat then when you get through like 3 of them in comes a platter full of 2 dozen of them. You get sick of cheese burgers when someone keeps shoving them in your face.
  • Posts: 7,653
    FoxRox wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I do not mind the superhero movies, there are plenty of other movies if you are not interested in the superhero movies, nobody forces you to watch them.

    I find the complaining about movies one does not like hypocritical, if you do not want to watch them then do not complain about them. It is like complaining about the romantic nature of the Hallmark tv movies and series, which is basically their field of operation.

    It’s the fad that’s annoying to me above all other things. Hearing about them all the time anywhere I go. I wish attention to other movies would be more evenly distributed.

    fads change and that is good, I rather prefer the current Superhero cycle to be concluded in a decent matter so you can look back on them a series with a beginning and a end.
  • Posts: 684
    Is there any indication that there will be less superhero films the next few years? Feels like there's a new one out each month.
    No, and I'm not sure the genie is going back in the bottle any time soon, tbh. Even if superhero films die out, will Hollywood ever again widely spend money on anything but brand-name properties marketed to adolescents? An entire generation (of future MBA-marketed "auteurs") is growing up to regard even the Weinstein-outsourced Best Picture contenders with the same suspicion of quaintness that they do novels and other homework assignments.
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 14,831
    FoxRox wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I do not mind the superhero movies, there are plenty of other movies if you are not interested in the superhero movies, nobody forces you to watch them.

    I find the complaining about movies one does not like hypocritical, if you do not want to watch them then do not complain about them. It is like complaining about the romantic nature of the Hallmark tv movies and series, which is basically their field of operation.

    It’s the fad that’s annoying to me above all other things. Hearing about them all the time anywhere I go. I wish attention to other movies would be more evenly distributed along with the superhero films. They seem to just overshadow almost everything else over the last several years.

    This.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Is there any indication that there will be less superhero films the next few years? Feels like there's a new one out each month.

    It took a while for the musical genre to die down but it did in the end and apparently very suddenly.

    Superhero movie sagas is for me a case of be careful what you wish for. As a kid I wanted badly to see superhero movies succeed, I mean not only Batman and Superman but the more obscure ones. By the time it happened and Marvel became the juggernaut we now have, I had stopped caring.

    Was there a musical craze? Didn't even notice!
    Agree, the amount of superhero films we have now would have been fantastic as a kid, but these days it's easy to feel that there's just too many of them.

    Back in the 50s-60s yes.
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 17,288
    Strog wrote: »
    Is there any indication that there will be less superhero films the next few years? Feels like there's a new one out each month.
    No, and I'm not sure the genie is going back in the bottle any time soon, tbh. Even if superhero films die out, will Hollywood ever again widely spend money on anything but brand-name properties marketed to adolescents? An entire generation (of future MBA-marketed "auteurs") is growing up to regard even the Weinstein-outsourced Best Picture contenders with the same suspicion of quaintness that they do novels and other homework assignments.

    Good point. There will surely be some other brand-name properties they can make into blockbusters targeting the same age group. Same ol' Hollywood.
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 684
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It’s the fad that’s annoying to me above all other things. Hearing about them all the time anywhere I go. I wish attention to other movies would be more evenly distributed along with the superhero films. They seem to just overshadow almost everything else over the last several years.
    I agree with the gist of this, but it also seems to me that 'other movies' are also just other non-superhero IPs. [Insert the old saw about how Star Wars would never get made today.]
    Good point. There will surely be some other brand-name properties they can make into blockbusters targeting the same age group. Same ol' Hollywood.
    I wish there was more original big-budget stuff (which seems limited to Nolan-directed fare at the moment) or even just original stuff that's not soulless Oscar bait. I'll go out of my way to attend something like BABY DRIVER (even if it was just okay in my book) to help encourage the originality.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Strog wrote: »
    Is there any indication that there will be less superhero films the next few years? Feels like there's a new one out each month.
    No, and I'm not sure the genie is going back in the bottle any time soon, tbh. Even if superhero films die out, will Hollywood ever again widely spend money on anything but brand-name properties marketed to adolescents? An entire generation (of future MBA-marketed "auteurs") is growing up to regard even the Weinstein-outsourced Best Picture contenders with the same suspicion of quaintness that they do novels and other homework assignments.

    Good point. There will surely be some other brand-name properties they can make into blockbusters targeting the same age group. Same ol' Hollywood.
    There are certainly a lot of these sorts of films, true. However, they aren't all very successful.

    Marvel seems to do a good job of it but I often read criticism of DC's efforts. I think the former (under Kevin Feige's leadership) have a knack for creating interesting & credible characterizations for their properties which they then build upon with successive films. They also cast quite well and take some risks. Is it cookie cutter factory style to an extent? Yes, but it also seems to consistently resonate, and I'd argue some of that has to be due to execution. I enjoy them for the most part, & like most have my favourites. I honestly wouldn't have predicted this level of success for them a decade ago (at that time Nolan & DC were riding high with TDK and Iron Man had just been released).

    There also appears to be a lot of interest (particularly in foreign markets) for creature type films (JW, The Meg, Venom etc.).

    I suppose, given the increasing production & distribution costs for films, that studios will continue to rely on these somewhat guaranteed franchise IP tentpoles to pull in the theatre punters while shunting other types of films to Netflix and other distribution channels. In the end it doesn't really bother me which distribution channel is used as long as interesting fare makes its way to the market in some way shape or form. With home theatre technology improving by leaps and bounds we are quite spoiled for choice between tv, streaming and theatre.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    edited October 2018 Posts: 3,985
    jobo wrote: »
    Lets not pretend it is only a generational thing. I have encountered people in their 50s claim Tarantino´s films are not action packed enough for them. Not least on this very thread...

    If you're referring to me then you're barking up the wrong tree pal.

    Tarantino has always been for me one of the most exciting screenwriter director's around.

    I saw Reservoir Dogs way back in 1992 before it was even released and realised then this guy was an exciting new talent. I even met the man at the screening and still have his autograph.

    Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction are both in my top ten favourite films.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Certainly controversial to call James Cameron overrated. Surely on of the best action directors in the history of cinema.

    I agree on Titanic being a silly overblown effort. But I really like Avatar for all its unoriginal plot shenanigans, it's still a stunning film.

    But no one can argue against The Terminator, T2 and Aliens being brilliant offerings.

    I also love The Abyss and True Lies although they do have faults.


    No one can argue?? I certainly could!

    - "Surely one of the best action directors in the history of cinema"

    That one made me laugh! ;))

    Name me a better action director. And if it's Michael Bay then do please jog on.


    Quentin Tarantino, J. J. Abrams, John Woo, George Miller, Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott are the first names that pop up in my head. I could go on, but I don't really see the point. Lets throw Spielberg in there too, even if this all started with me claiming he was overrated. I'd take him every day over Cameron...

    George Miller may come close, but the rest of those aren't specifically known as action director's. Apart from John Woo of course who's action is too OTT to be taken seriously.

    In the action stakes Cameron is king.

    At least you didn't list Michael Bay....


    Sorry, I thought we were rating the ability to direct an action scene, not how many action scenes you can cramp into a film... my bad.

    Where did I mention that? Doesn't matter how much action is in a film, Cameron is the best full stop IMO.

    As I mentioned before, his flood channel chase in T2 is better than most director's entire action oeuvre.

    And if you're not convinced watch the helicopter sequence along the bridge in Florida in True Lies for how good this guy is.

    But then if I'd mentioned one of those other director's were the best I would have got the same response from you. You just like being contrary because that's your 'thing'


    I have no interesti in watching T2. T1 was enough...


    True Lies I will have check out. My expectations are low... But who knows.
    Mack_Bolan wrote: »
    He doesn’t have time to watch True Lies. He’s too busy revisiting his favorite film, Star Wars: The Force Awakens.


    As usual you have no idea what you are talking about...

    Oh that's rich! You haven't seen T2, The Abyss, True Lies or Aliens?!!!!!

    Your opinion on Cameron is therefore null and void.

    That's like me saying Hitchcock is overrated without seeing Psycho, North By Northwest or Vertigo!

    And how dare you mention 'strawman' arguments to the other member on here when you're the expert at it.
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