007: What would you have done differently?

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  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I wouldn't change a thing about Octopussy (the character), except perhaps maybe making her a bit more confident during the climax rather than changing pace all the time (some of the same reasons other users mentioned above). Maud Adams was perfect and one of the only things I love about the film. She was perfect with Roger, and dare I say fared better than her previous incarnation in TMWTGG.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Charlotte Rampling would have made a fine Octopussy.

    I don't know if Rampling would be a good fit for Octopussy. I would rather see her cast as a Bond girl with more dramatic heft, such as Tracy.

    How would I have done Octopussy? Well, in my dream timeline, in 1983, David Warbeck is still Bond. So providing Octopussy is still made in 1983, Moore wouldn't have been Bond. But looking at the actual Octopussy film, if I made my version in 1983, I would probably keep the cast the same. Come to think of it, in said timeline, I haven't even used Octopussy, so my version could be completely different, as regards the cast.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Maud Adams and Rog are a perfect fit in terms of chemistry. very believable
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    I don't know if Rampling would be a good fit for Octopussy. I would rather see her cast as a Bond girl with more dramatic heft, such as Tracy.

    How would I have done Octopussy? Well, in my dream timeline, in 1983, David Warbeck is still Bond. So providing Octopussy is still made in 1983, Moore wouldn't have been Bond. But looking at the actual Octopussy film, if I made my version in 1983, I would probably keep the cast the same. Come to think of it, in said timeline, I haven't even used Octopussy, so my version could be completely different, as regards the cast.
    Yes, I tend to agree. As good as Rampling is (or was) I'm not sure how she would've played off against Roger Moore. Rampling can come over a little haughty in her roles.

    Of course, in my own alternative timeline, this would be Lewis Collins second movie as 007... with possibly Diane Lane or Cybill Shepherd as Octopussy.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 591
    So a bit early on this one, but the conversation seems to be coming to an end, here we go... A VIEW TO A KILL.

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    Again, this is your chance to say whatever you would have done differently with the film, so things like; plot changes, character additions or subtractions. Anything you like. People will be given the chance to give their responses within 7 DAYS from today (this may change so let me know if you want me to extend the time for longer) until the discussion moves on to the next James Bond film. This will run until we reach SPECTRE.

    Looking forward to hearing what you guys think.
  • Posts: 16,104
    One thing that would turn this one into a masterpiece would be to insert Roger's
    OOOOOWWWOOHHH sound when Mayday flips in on his back and gets on top of him.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 591
    ALSO, don't worry if you missed out on discussing any of the films. Once we've finished all the James Bond films, this will become a general discussion about what we would change.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    She was perfect with Roger, and dare I say fared better than her previous incarnation in TMWTGG.

    She certainly got a happier ending in OP.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Maud Adams and Rog are a perfect fit in terms of chemistry. very believable

    Agreed. The Moore/Miss Adams duo along with Timothy Dalton and Maryam d'Abo constitute my picks for the 2 most believable onscreen Bond/Bond couples. Sir Rog and Maud brought a strength and believability to the Bond/Octopussy pairing that may not have been in its original script but certainly existed in the finished product.
  • Posts: 230
    Replace boring and generic PTS. Fix the fire truck chase - the idea is fine, but poorly executed. Bond is so old he fixes quiche for the young girls he is about to bang. I don't mind Rog...but this was a bridge (or movie) too far. I generally thought Walken did a fine job, but there ere a few points where the overacting went a bit too far. And of course the Tanya Roberts screams. Though in fairness, most of us would be screaming if we were abut to die in a fire-filled elevator shaft, etc.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    STLCards3 wrote: »
    Bond is so old he fixes quiche for the young girls he is about to bang.
    Pity she didn't have oysters in the fridge. The eggs and wine put her to sleep.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Keep the original title. FAVTAK sounded great, I was thrilled when I first read that it would be the title of the next film.

  • Posts: 11,189
    Get Moore to tone down the letchiness.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    .Convince Moore not to have a face-lift prior to filming.
    .Less of Stacy screaming.
    .The fights are pretty mediocre so improve on that.

    AVTAK is an underrated movie.
  • JeffreyJeffrey The Netherlands
    edited May 2018 Posts: 308
    Remington wrote: »
    .Convince Moore not to have a face-lift prior to filming.
    .Less of Stacy screaming.
    .The fights are pretty mediocre so improve on that.

    AVTAK is an underrated movie.

    This.

    And a very minor change, remove the taxi driver screaming: “Oh, my car, oh. My car. My car. Oh.” That’s just horrible dubbing.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    I would agree about convincing Roger not to get the facelift. He looked good in some scenes, actually a bit younger, but in others (the spa scene, for example), he looked dreadful.

    I can handle the corny fire truck chase and Stacy's screaming, but I would do something about any scene at Stacy's house. They were all pretty lousy. The listless fight, the lack of set decoration, the quiche cooking...something better should have been done there.
  • Posts: 4,044
    With Roger being past his prime in AVTAK, the answer for the problem with making fistfights exciting and realistic was surely to not do them.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Well, nothing survives intact from Fleming's own short story about Bond investigating the murder of a motorcycle dispatch-rider and the theft of his top-secret documents by a motorcycle-riding assassin, nor does the title. Personally, I'd change absolutely everything about this movie, apart from keeping the title song performed by Duran Duran, which is the best thing about the entire bloody movie.

    I pity those for which AVTAK was their first introduction and viewing experience of 007 at the cinema. If you liked this bottom of the barrel tosh then I'm guessing you also think DAD is a great Bond movie too. Nothing can be fixed in this daft movie I'm afraid, other than a complete rewrite from top to bottom. It's like watching a revival TV special of John Steed and Simon Templar in their very last geriatric caper together with the worst member of Charlie's Angels tagging along for the ride. Christopher Walken is just too good for this half-baked nonsense. An actor of his calibre should really have been pitted against a young and virile Lewis Collins as 007 rather than grandpa Bond... and in a much better story. I also think this might have been a Bond first by which the Americans got to see this total stinker one whole month before us Brits. Thing was, I paid good money to go see this drivel on a Saturday night at the Odeon Leicester Square, but nothing will erase the displeasure of seeing grandpa Bond in bed with Grace Jones's Mayday. Absolutely nothing. The movie is a total misfire and can't be improved by minor tweaks made here and there. It needs a better story.
  • Posts: 15,044
    Getting rid of a lot of the comedy for one. Cast a new Bond. Make the action scenes more violent.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 787
    I'm feeling uncharitable at the moment, so I'd say my fix for AVTAK would be to cut it out . . . entirely.

    OK, OK, a few stray thoughts:

    -Several people are too old here. Rog obviously, but Lois and even, bless him, Patrick.
    -Saying that, MacNee is outstanding. More of him, please. His death adds to the stakes, yes, but I'd rather see that achieved some other way.
    -I love Grace Jones, but she's just strange in this one. More weird than menacing.
    -Sneaking up on someone in a blimp is the height of ridiculousness.
    -Rog is too old in this one.
    -As with every Bond film set there, the USA looks flat and dull in AVTAK. There must've been some way to make the American settings come to life a bit more.
    -This might be related to the overall colour palette/cinematography, which feels rather grey and dull to me.
    -I believe Rog is (and stay with me, here) too old.
    -'California Girls' is out, immediately. The PTS is fine without it. The Iceberg sub is enough of a wink, if one is needed.
    -There are several little pieces of hammy overacting in places: the Frenchman in the restaurant, the taxi driver, etc. Just one more take would've yielded tidier finished product.
    -Similarly, there's some sloppy work with stunt doubles and even just stand-in (Gogol, for instance) that need one more brush-up.
    -Stacy doesn't work for me, over much. The 'damsel in distress' is actually a tough line to walk, since the actress needs to keep our sympathy. Stacy doesn't do that effectively enough and I find myself not really caring about her fate.
    -Finally, Rog does indeed look too old here.

    Structurally it's fine, and there are some solid performances, but I can definitely imagine several fixes that would take it up a few points.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    octofinger wrote: »
    I'm feeling uncharitable at the moment, so I'd say my fix for AVTAK would be to cut it out . . . entirely.
    You know, that was actually my first thought as well, which is why I haven't really commented here. I didn't think it would go down well with fans given the new thread on it and all.
  • Posts: 787
    bondsum wrote: »
    Well, nothing survives intact from Fleming's own short story about Bond investigating the murder of a motorcycle dispatch-rider and the theft of his top-secret documents by a motorcycle-riding assassin, nor does the title. Personally, I'd change absolutely everything about this movie, apart from keeping the title song performed by Duran Duran, which is the best thing about the entire bloody movie.

    I pity those for which AVTAK was their first introduction and viewing experience of 007 at the cinema. If you liked this bottom of the barrel tosh then I'm guessing you also think DAD is a great Bond movie too. Nothing can be fixed in this daft movie I'm afraid, other than a complete rewrite from top to bottom. It's like watching a revival TV special of John Steed and Simon Templar in their very last geriatric caper together with the worst member of Charlie's Angels tagging along for the ride. Christopher Walken is just too good for this half-baked nonsense. An actor of his calibre should really have been pitted against a young and virile Lewis Collins as 007 rather than grandpa Bond... and in a much better story. I also think this might have been a Bond first by which the Americans got to see this total stinker one whole month before us Brits. Thing was, I paid good money to go see this drivel on a Saturday night at the Odeon Leicester Square, but nothing will erase the displeasure of seeing grandpa Bond in bed with Grace Jones's Mayday. Absolutely nothing. The movie is a total misfire and can't be improved by minor tweaks made here and there. It needs a better story.

    Yes, but how to do you really feel about the movie?

  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Remington wrote: »
    .Convince Moore not to have a face-lift prior to filming.

    In fairness to Sir Rog I'm guessing that he had to have his mole removed for potentially cancerous reasons though his face had more character with it.

    Some minor changes I'd make which might not make AVTAK a good Bond film but perhaps an improvement over the one that exists in reality:

    Lose the California Girls "funny" musical interlude. It totally undermines an otherwise well-made PTS.

    Allow Sir Godfrey Tibbett to live to the end and give his character more dignity.

    Replace Chuck Lee with David Hedison as Felix Leiter but allow his character to live also.

    Since Tibbett and Lee/Leiter would be allowed to live the script still needs a "sacrificial lamb"/victim character so have May Day bump off Stacy Sutton instead.

    With Miss Sutton now gone or at least her screentime greatly reduced, the film would need a new main Bond girl so make Pola Ivanova the main heroine instead.

    That's all for now. I came up with much more strenuous revisions to AVTAK many years back. If I can find them I'll post them later.
  • Posts: 7,653
    For me the missed chance was given Patrick MacNee not his John Steed character, 007 & John Steed that would have been a great send off for both men in their great parts. And with those two characters we could have camped it up and let Purdy or Emma Peel guest star as well. ;)
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 11,189
    Moore's age wouldn't have been as much of a problem in the film if he was put with appropriate leading ladies rather than 20 something pin-up models. As it is he comes off as far too sleazy and its uncomfortable to watch.

    "call me James, it's 5 days till Alaska"
  • JeffreyJeffrey The Netherlands
    Posts: 308
    bondsum wrote: »
    I pity those for which AVTAK was the first introduction and viewing experience of 007 at the cinema. If you liked this bottom of the barrel tosh then I'm guessing you also think DAD is a great Bond movie too. Nothing can be fixed in this daft movie I'm afraid, other than a complete rewrite from top to bottom. It's like watching a revival TV special of John Steed and Simon Templar in their very last geriatric caper together with the worst member of Charlie's Angels tagging along for the ride. Christopher Walken is just too good for this half-baked nonsense. An actor of his calibre should really have been pitted against a young and virile Lewis Collins as 007 rather than grandpa Bond... and in a much better story. I also think this might have been a Bond first by which the Americans got to see this total stinker one whole month before us Brits. Thing was, I paid good money to go see this drivel on a Saturday night at the Odeon Leicester Square, but nothing will erase the displeasure of seeing grandpa Bond in bed with Grace Jones's Mayday. Absolutely nothing. The movie is a total misfire and can't be improved by minor tweaks made here and there. It needs a better story.

    So you would make a whole other film entirely then.

    I’m happy to say I’ve always enjoyed watching AVTAK. It’s not perfect, I get some of the criticism, but it’s certainly no bottom of the barrell for me.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 2,913
    How to improve AVTAK?
    Simple: don't make it. Skip ahead to Dalton in The Living Daylights. Perhaps if American audiences would have been more receptive to Dalton if he'd been introduced at an earlier date.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Totally agree, @Revelator. Skip it entirely and move onto TLD with Dalton.

    Well, @Jeffrey from the Netherlands, we can't all have taste.
  • Posts: 684
    Here's a change, inspired by:
    octofinger wrote: »
    -Sneaking up on someone in a blimp is the height of ridiculousness.
    - Add a sound effect in post to make it clear Stacey's ears are ringing from the explosion.
  • Posts: 230
    Birdleson wrote: »
    A VIEW TO A KILL, for all it's zaniness, needs to either be chucked out entirely or accepted for more or less what it is. I have chosen to accept it.

    Here are the minor changes I would instill:

    4. Entirely cut the fight that Bond and Tibbet have with the guards in the warehouse.

    I agree with all but this one.
  • Posts: 4,044
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Moore's age wouldn't have been as much of a problem in the film if he was put with appropriate leading ladies rather than 20 something pin-up models. As it is he comes off as far too sleazy and its uncomfortable to watch.

    "call me James, it's 5 days till Alaska"

    It'll take him 5 days and all.
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