007: What would you have done differently?

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  • edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    echo wrote: »
    SW was a bigger blockbuster than any of those, and the game changer.

    The people who understood The Magnificent Seven reference are not the same audience (kids) who laughed at Jaws dropping the rock on his foot in TSWLM and all of his increased shenanigans in MR.
    WRONG!! Of course the same audience who laughed at Jaws dropping a rock on his foot in TSWLM understood The Magnificent Seven reference in MR (as they did The Lawrence of Arabia theme in TSWLM). Everyone did unless you were a drooling moron that needed a nurse to tuck you in bed at night. That has to be one of the dumbest and most sanctimonious things I've read on these forums (and I've read some really dumb things by millennials) in quite a while. Along with using the term "game changer" to describe Star Wars that you read out of a book, you hardly cover yourself in glory here. Well done you, sir, you get to wear the hat for the day. It's more likely that a millennial wouldn't have understood those cultural references than it was someone from the Seventies. And of course we know Star Wars was the biggest blockbuster then. Tell me something I don't know. But what you said about the studios making movies for idiots to go see over and over again is not correct -- as you can't legislate for stupid.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    The poster has always looked crass to my eyes. And it would degrading to Melina's character to imagine an actual shot of her in that thong from that camera position. Yes, Bond films offer shapely female forms to the audience, but there's no need for the posters to scream "T & A!!!!" (or at least "A!!!!!").

    I don't mind a bit of degradation, but yes, I've always found that poster crass and tacky; but mainly dull. I had grown up with those fantastic painted posters that we got from TB all the way through MR; then that. Very disappointing.
    I'm with you on this @Birdleson. It was the first Bond poster I didn't purchase. Of course I now realise that that was a big mistake as it now goes for big bucks. But at the time, I just thought it was uninspiring and boring. There was another poster used here in the UK that added to the two legs, which improved upon it. Nevertheless, I just didn't think it was in the same league as its predecessor.

    For+Your+Eyes+Only+full+film+poster.jpg
  • Posts: 19,339
    I love that poster,personally.
  • Posts: 3,333
    On reflection @barryt007 it looks way better than the photoshopped ones we have now, but at the time I ddn't feel it had the energy of some of its predecessors. It's now slipped into iconic status so time has treated it well.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 19,339
    bondsum wrote: »
    On reflection @barryt007 it looks way better than the photoshopped ones we have now, but at the time I ddn't feel it had the energy of some of its predecessors. It's now slipped into iconic status so time has treated it well.

    That's true,possibly down to the more open-minded attitude nowadays.I always like the Bond posters that have a central picture with all the little snippets around it,tantalizing the viewer with what will happen during the film.

  • Posts: 7,305
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    On reflection @barryt007 it looks way better than the photoshopped ones we have now, but at the time I ddn't feel it had the energy of some of its predecessors. It's now slipped into iconic status so time has treated it well.

    That's true,possibly down to the more open-minded attitude nowadays.I always like the Bond posters that have a central picture with all the little snippets around it,tantalizing the viewer with what will happen during the film.

    TLD did it the best. The Last decent poster for a Bond movie..apart from the teaser for CR!
  • Posts: 19,339
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    On reflection @barryt007 it looks way better than the photoshopped ones we have now, but at the time I ddn't feel it had the energy of some of its predecessors. It's now slipped into iconic status so time has treated it well.

    That's true,possibly down to the more open-minded attitude nowadays.I always like the Bond posters that have a central picture with all the little snippets around it,tantalizing the viewer with what will happen during the film.

    TLD did it the best. The Last decent poster for a Bond movie..apart from the teaser for CR!

    Excellent poster,i agree,and it is the last great poster for a Bond film,alas.
    TND came closest since then IMO.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T.
    edited May 2018 Posts: 7,014
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    On reflection @barryt007 it looks way better than the photoshopped ones we have now, but at the time I ddn't feel it had the energy of some of its predecessors. It's now slipped into iconic status so time has treated it well.

    That's true,possibly down to the more open-minded attitude nowadays.I always like the Bond posters that have a central picture with all the little snippets around it,tantalizing the viewer with what will happen during the film.
    Agreed!

    Teasing and stimulating one's imagination is what makes a great poster. That's why I liked that fan-made Skyfall one you posted the other day. You see Bond holding a radio and smiling mischievously, and you want to know what that's about. And it does tie into a great part in the film.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    bondjames wrote: »
    I've been reasonably quiet in terms of critiquing films to date, because I think the 60s and 70s are just great as they are.

    Agreed. I also have a great affection for the 1960s-1970s Bond films and tend to enjoy them as they are. Their blemishes along with their strengths are part of the enjoyment process I experience when watching them. I tend to be more critical of the Bond films made from 1980 forwards.
    bondjames wrote: »
    6. recast Kristatos. He is, imho, the most boring villain in the series apart from that loser Renard

    He was a villain who battled Moore 13 years earlier on "The Saint".
    bondjames wrote: »
    8. make the encounter atop St. Cyrils more engaging. Once they get up there it's rather a nonevent.

    Indeed. It'd make a fine finale for an episode of "The Saint" or "The Persuaders" but seems kind of anticlimactic for a Bond film. Especially after its two rather spectacular immediate predecessors.
    BT3366 wrote: »
    FYEO is in many ways an overreaction to the excess and effects of MR. Too much of a greatest hits package as far as the action goes and no improvements on any of those. Many of the plot elements are also derivatives of previous films, especially FRWL.

    Agreed. It's the Moore era's attempt to give him his FRWL or OHMSS but not nearly as good as the two films it's aiming to be.

    BT3366 wrote: »
    Kristatos is more like an associate henchman than a main villain. The big reveal when Colombo reveals him as the real villain is one of the least surprising scenes in the series.

    It also didn't help that the trailer gives away Kristatos' villainy at 1:20-1:30



    One other radical change I would consider is re-titling the film "Risico" and leave Columbo, Kristatos, Countess Lisl(as the main Bond girl) and even Bibi in the film and expand the story from there. Meanwhile, I'd lift Miss Havelock(Melina in the film but Judy in Fleming's short story), her dad and mom, Gonzales and the entire FYEO short story elements from the 1981 Bond film and put them in a Dalton Bond film like LTK with Sanchez being the one responsible for Mr. and Mrs. Havelock's murders. The idea of LTK's Bond teaming up with FYEO's Melina in pursuit of Sanchez has long been a "parallel universe" Bond film dream of mine.

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 2018 Posts: 5,964
    One other radical change I would consider is re-titling the film "Risico" and leave Columbo, Kristatos, Countess Lisl(as the main Bond girl) and even Bibi in the film and expand the story from there. Meanwhile, I'd lift Miss Havelock(Melina in the film but Judy in Fleming's short story), her dad and mom, Gonzales and the entire FYEO short story elements from the 1981 Bond film and put them in a Dalton Bond film like LTK with Sanchez being the one responsible for Mr. and Mrs. Havelock's murders. The idea of LTK's Bond teaming up with FYEO's Melina in pursuit of Sanchez has long been a "parallel universe" Bond film dream of mine.

    I'm really into this idea :D

  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Denbigh wrote: »
    One other radical change I would consider is re-titling the film "Risico" and leave Columbo, Kristatos, Countess Lisl(as the main Bond girl) and even Bibi in the film and expand the story from there. Meanwhile, I'd lift Miss Havelock(Melina in the film but Judy in Fleming's short story), her dad and mom, Gonzales and the entire FYEO short story elements from the 1981 Bond film and put them in a Dalton Bond film like LTK with Sanchez being the one responsible for Mr. and Mrs. Havelock's murders. The idea of LTK's Bond teaming up with FYEO's Melina in pursuit of Sanchez has long been a "parallel universe" Bond film dream of mine.

    I'm really into this idea :D

    I've been into it for a long time. Dalton Bond and Melina are my favorite "parallel universe" Bond/Bond girl couple.
  • Posts: 15,044
    Denbigh wrote: »
    One other radical change I would consider is re-titling the film "Risico" and leave Columbo, Kristatos, Countess Lisl(as the main Bond girl) and even Bibi in the film and expand the story from there. Meanwhile, I'd lift Miss Havelock(Melina in the film but Judy in Fleming's short story), her dad and mom, Gonzales and the entire FYEO short story elements from the 1981 Bond film and put them in a Dalton Bond film like LTK with Sanchez being the one responsible for Mr. and Mrs. Havelock's murders. The idea of LTK's Bond teaming up with FYEO's Melina in pursuit of Sanchez has long been a "parallel universe" Bond film dream of mine.

    I'm really into this idea :D

    I've been into it for a long time. Dalton Bond and Melina are my favorite "parallel universe" Bond/Bond girl couple.

    That would have given something to LTK/FYEO that was missing. Not sure what but it would have been less of a typical revenge story.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    FYEO does remind me of LTK in many ways. I think they would make a great double bill (I haven't done it yet myself). It could be the tone, the revenge element and/or some of the underwater sequences, not sure. Glen ended in a similar fashion to how he started imho.
  • Posts: 17,692
    bondjames wrote: »
    FYEO does remind me of LTK in many ways. I think they would make a great double bill (I haven't done it yet myself). It could be the tone, the revenge element and/or some of the underwater sequences, not sure. Glen ended in a similar fashion to how he started imho.

    Interesting! That's a double bill I haven't thought of. Planning to watch both films sometime this summer, and can easily make it a double feature. :-)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    FYEO does remind me of LTK in many ways. I think they would make a great double bill (I haven't done it yet myself). It could be the tone, the revenge element and/or some of the underwater sequences, not sure. Glen ended in a similar fashion to how he started imho.

    Interesting! That's a double bill I haven't thought of. Planning to watch both films sometime this summer, and can easily make it a double feature. :-)
    I'll give it a try in a few weeks and see if it works. I've recently purchased a 4K tv and am rediscovering the films again upscaled. They really look fantastic.

    PS: I suppose one could substitute or include QoS in that as well. Similar theme to LTK at least and Camille is similar to Melina.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 17,692
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    FYEO does remind me of LTK in many ways. I think they would make a great double bill (I haven't done it yet myself). It could be the tone, the revenge element and/or some of the underwater sequences, not sure. Glen ended in a similar fashion to how he started imho.

    Interesting! That's a double bill I haven't thought of. Planning to watch both films sometime this summer, and can easily make it a double feature. :-)
    I'll give it a try in a few weeks and see if it works. I've recently purchased a 4K tv and am rediscovering the films again upscaled. They really look fantastic.

    PS: I suppose one could substitute or include QoS in that as well. Similar theme to LTK at least and Camille is similar to Melina.

    4K Bond sounds fantastic! Have yet to make the shift from DVD's to Blu-ray for the Bond films; might just jump straight to 4K, eventually.

    Agree on QoS. That one is also due a rewatch!
  • So here we go... OCTOPUSSY.

    007_octopussy_UKquad.jpg

    Again, this is your chance to say whatever you would have done differently with the film, so things like; plot changes, character additions or subtractions. Anything you like. People will be given the chance to give their responses within 7 DAYS from today (this may change so let me know if you want me to extend the time for longer) until the discussion moves on to the next James Bond film. This will run until we reach SKYFALL as a discussion for SPECTRE already exists.

    Looking forward to hearing what you guys think.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    The film has a few flaws but I couldn't change anything.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I love the PTS personally. It's top 10 for me, and may even be top 5.

    I agree that Tarzan, "sit" and the flute must go. So must the stupid curry jokes and the fight at the festival, which was bloody awful ("Get off my bed!!!"). Yuk.

    I can live with Rita's song. I don't find it as offensive as Sheena's tripe. It's not especially memorable but doesn't upset me either.

    I'm not too keen on the finale at Kamal's with Octopussy's circus and Q being a buffoon though. I'd prefer it if Bond raided the place on his own, perhaps by gliding and then parachuting in or something, like how he arrived at Scaramanga's. What's the point of Q there anyway, except to humiliate himself? Similarly, what's the point of the circus troupe? The entire sequence would work better if it's just Kamal, Gobinda and Octopussy at the palace, and Bond arrives on his own to take them out. Similar to the finale of North by Northwest. A more serious and suspenseful tone throughout the entire finale would help things imho.

    Otherwise, I don't have too many complaints. It's a near great film as it is imho and I'm due a rewatch soon.
  • Posts: 128
    Haha, Vijay playing the Bond Theme never bothered me. It's a cute little meta moment. There is no "James Bond Theme" in the universe in which Bond exists, so what's the problem?
  • Posts: 128
    Revelator wrote: »
    coco1997 wrote: »
    It's actually the University of Iowa.

    You are correct. Here's a description of everything in Maibaum's papers.
    I got confused and wrote the "University of Indiana, Bloomington," which is actually where Fleming's papers and manuscripts are. How convenient it would have been if Maibaum's papers had been at the same university!
    Anyway, I hope more scholars will make their way to Iowa City in the near future.
    bondsum wrote: »
    That would be fantastic @coco1997. It would be great to find out the hidden gems in the early drafts for OHMSS, YOLT, TMWTGG and DAF. I think the rest have been covered extensively.

    Gentlemen, I have officially planned my trip to the University of Iowa at the end of June. I'm bringing along a buddy of mine and we plan to spend a couple days pouring over the contents of Maibaum's collection. Wish us luck!
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited May 2018 Posts: 15,423
    What would I have done differently? Omit the cheesy parts, replace the director and the cinematographer who both made the film look like a cheap TV effort. That worked for FYEO beautifully, but not for Octopussy.
  • Posts: 1,911
    I agree with many of the previous comments about the silliness going and such, but one thing most fans probably don't give a thought about has bugged me for years.

    In the teaser after Bond has been captured and is riding in the back of the military vehicle he makes his escape by pulling the ripcord on the guards' parachutes.

    Why in the world were these guys wearing parachutes to begin with? They're riding in a truck, not in an aircraft. Sloppy idea. Thing is it moves so quickly after this it usually gets glossed over.
  • Posts: 2,913
    coco1997 wrote: »
    Gentlemen, I have officially planned my trip to the University of Iowa at the end of June. I'm bringing along a buddy of mine and we plan to spend a couple days pouring over the contents of Maibaum's collection. Wish us luck!

    I wish you a Liparus-size load of luck--and I demand a detailed report of all your findings! Your research trip fills me with undiluted envy. Enjoy your time in the cave of treasures! Perhaps the MI6 website folk could commission an article from you.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    The only thing I'd change about OP is to make it Sir Rog's last Bond film instead of AVTAK. It would've made the perfect end to his era and style of 007 film.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The only thing I'd change about OP is to make it Sir Rog's last Bond film instead of AVTAK. It would've made the perfect end to his era and style of 007 film.
    I agree actually. I've always felt it should have been his last also. An 'All Time High' as it were.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,710
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I agree with many of the previous comments about the silliness going and such, but one thing most fans probably don't give a thought about has bugged me for years.

    In the teaser after Bond has been captured and is riding in the back of the military vehicle he makes his escape by pulling the ripcord on the guards' parachutes.

    Why in the world were these guys wearing parachutes to begin with? They're riding in a truck, not in an aircraft. Sloppy idea. Thing is it moves so quickly after this it usually gets glossed over.
    I always rationalized they had instructions to dispose of Bond at altitude.

    An unnecessarily complicated and outright bad plan, but the kind of snap decision an officer might make.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    bondjames wrote: »
    The only thing I'd change about OP is to make it Sir Rog's last Bond film instead of AVTAK. It would've made the perfect end to his era and style of 007 film.
    I agree actually. I've always felt it should have been his last also. An 'All Time High' as it were.

    Indeed. I choose to believe his Bond retired to India with Maud Adams since she was the Bond girl I thought he had the best onscreen chemistry with. Twice.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I could see Bond retiring with Octopussy. So, count me in on that one, too.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I love Octopussy as is. But it would be a much stronger start if they replaced the PTS with 009's death. Also the part when Bond throws the 4-sided pointy thing during the Tuk Tuk chase and almost killing the old lady bothers me. Otherwise it's pretty perfect as is.
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