Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,714
    NSNA is better than TB.
    (Packs up canned goods and heads into the bomb shelter.)


    The Shrublands sequence is.

    The first half hour of TB I find ponderous. Ok, the PTS is ordinary but that's less of an issue than the Shrublands sequence. Which looks grey and flat. Lippe is not much of a villain. I also think the plastic surgery complication makes it convoluted. This may be blasphemy but I think the NSNA Shrublands sequence is tighter and more engaging and Derval feels more like a tragic figure. A man willing to sell out his country for heroin. Plus the NSNA fight is great.

  • Goldfinger is tight, exciting, iconic. Thunderball is overstuffed, slow & trying too hard (jetpack). Bits of Thunderball are better, (girls locations) but the sum isnt greater than the parts

    My opinion- I dont rate Chris Lee as Scaramanga. Never have, never will.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,729
    Am I the only person who loves the thunderball PTS
  • No some people really dig it, sadly its not for me. Its cool up till the jetpack but then it turns into what a toy commercial!
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited April 2017 Posts: 2,714
    Funnily enough the jetpack is the only thing I like about it! The sped up fight is what bothers me. It's indicative of an issue that plagues the Bond films for a while - which is an inability to have a really great hand to hand fistfight after the heights of FRWL (OHMSS being the exception).

    That's also hampered by Moore - who I love, but let's face it - hand to hand combat was not his speciality! DAF does it but also relies on the same gimmick of FRWL for inspiration (and also has Bond clumsily breaking a window drawing attention to his intentions - which is very Un-Bondian).

    I actually like the nutty one in YOLT - fighting with the couch. TLD has a couple of good ones involving Necros and GE's final is a belter. And of course Craig is a natural. But aside from OHMSS between GF and TLD the quality fist fights are fairly low on the ground.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,117
    I think TB has one of the finest PTS's in the entire franchise. That is one of the best in the series. Plus this amazing piece of music.

    Need I say more?
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    RC7 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I feel the opposite way. Great song, iconic visuals and representative of the plot.

    bondjames wrote: »
    I much prefer TB in nearly every way. I can understand the comments about it being leisurely, but it's not like that doesn't apply to GF as well (the film bloody well comes to a halt after the laser sequence!).

    I find all the characters more appealing (especially the female ones, who are a very important component of a Bond film to me). I find the locations more exotic and Bond-like (again, a very important element for me). I find the main villain more sinister and dangerous (yes, I think Celi's Largo is a more credible foe to Forbe's chunky Goldfinger, who just seems like a big bragging buffoon to me). I much prefer the dreamy score in the later film as well (I think this is around the time that Barry really came into his element, and that genius carried uninterrupted through to DAF).

    Most importantly, as I've said numerous times before, I think the fundamental difference is in Connery. He is way too goofy (for lack of a better word) in GF, whereas he is deadly charming and lethal in both measures in TB. There are subtle differences in his approach in the Young films vs. how he acts in the Hamilton entries, and I much prefer what Young is able to bring out of him. I prefer Hamilton's work with Moore.

    Great post. Hamilton cant compete with Young.

    Hamilton was like the Beatles. He created history.

    Nope. That was Young with regards to the style/ direction of the films and Fleming with regards to the story and character. TB was also more successful than GF. Fact.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Largo is so much better a villain than Goldfinger....TB trounces GF in all departments...its pure Bond.

    Agreed Barry.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    Am I the only person who loves the thunderball PTS

    Nope, I love it. More than GF's too, which is only popular for Sean in the dinner jacket. You can actually tell what is going on in TB's PTS, but GF is very foggy and never goes anywhere.
    suavejmf wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I feel the opposite way. Great song, iconic visuals and representative of the plot.

    bondjames wrote: »
    I much prefer TB in nearly every way. I can understand the comments about it being leisurely, but it's not like that doesn't apply to GF as well (the film bloody well comes to a halt after the laser sequence!).

    I find all the characters more appealing (especially the female ones, who are a very important component of a Bond film to me). I find the locations more exotic and Bond-like (again, a very important element for me). I find the main villain more sinister and dangerous (yes, I think Celi's Largo is a more credible foe to Forbe's chunky Goldfinger, who just seems like a big bragging buffoon to me). I much prefer the dreamy score in the later film as well (I think this is around the time that Barry really came into his element, and that genius carried uninterrupted through to DAF).

    Most importantly, as I've said numerous times before, I think the fundamental difference is in Connery. He is way too goofy (for lack of a better word) in GF, whereas he is deadly charming and lethal in both measures in TB. There are subtle differences in his approach in the Young films vs. how he acts in the Hamilton entries, and I much prefer what Young is able to bring out of him. I prefer Hamilton's work with Moore.

    Great post. Hamilton cant compete with Young.

    Hamilton was like the Beatles. He created history.

    Nope. That was Young with regards to the style/ direction of the films and Fleming with regards to the story and character. TB was also more successful than GF. Fact.

    Very much agreed. That Hamilton/Beatles comparison is quite hilarious. Young is the end all be all, and everyone else can battle for the rest of the spots behind him. To say Hamilton outranks him in the creation of what Bond is and continues to be is a major error. Without Young Hamilton wouldn't have had any canvas to paint on in the first place. Even still, nothing in the great GF aside from Sean in those suits can contend with the three monolithic films Young brought to the table and all the amazing moments in them.
  • Posts: 4,359
    Certainly the pts fight of TB is better and more exciting than the brief one in GF. Agreed that TB pre-title mess up when the jet pack appears! And love the Astons water jets leading into Binders excellent title sequence!
  • Posts: 19,339
    The ruthless way Bond breaks Col.Bouvar's neck with the poker over his knee it brilliant as well,and sets the tone for the whole film.

    It's one of my favourite PTS'.
  • Posts: 4,359
    Yes, and you really felt those blows of that poker! Ouch!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Certainly the pts fight of TB is better and more exciting than the brief one in GF. Agreed that TB pre-title mess up when the jet pack appears! And love the Astons water jets leading into Binders excellent title sequence!

    I don't get the jet pack backlash. I could understand people being upset if it was some wacky gadget, but that was a real working jet pack that could operate in real life just as Bond uses it. I think it's clever, and it's explained why it's there in the first place if one pays attention.


    On the topic of fights, the Bouvar battle alone, without even factoring in Bond's fight on the boat with Largo and all his men, beats anything in GF. The fight with Capungo is over in the blink of an eye, and the Oddjob fight is embarrassingly bad and tension-less, not making a weak finale any stronger. TB isn't the end all be all of action in the vintage Bond films, but let's not give that crown to GF either!
  • Posts: 4,359
    Re the jet pack, its probably down to the poor back projection of Connery, and the daft design of that helmet. The story goes that they asked the real pilot not to wear a helmet, so Bond would look more cool, but he refused on safety grounds!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Re the jet pack, its probably down to the poor back projection of Connery, and the daft design of that helmet. The story goes that they asked the real pilot not to wear a helmet, so Bond would look more cool, but he refused on safety grounds!

    I agree on the back projection, but that stuff is in all those films and you just have to get used to it. Every single moment that uses it never needs it, from DN to OHMSS, but EON always wanted viewers to see the actor in the action, even though it's not at all worth the effort or at all convincing.

    If I was to edit any of the 60s films, I'd probably just take out the projection and call it a day.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    suavejmf wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I feel the opposite way. Great song, iconic visuals and representative of the plot.

    bondjames wrote: »
    I much prefer TB in nearly every way. I can understand the comments about it being leisurely, but it's not like that doesn't apply to GF as well (the film bloody well comes to a halt after the laser sequence!).

    I find all the characters more appealing (especially the female ones, who are a very important component of a Bond film to me). I find the locations more exotic and Bond-like (again, a very important element for me). I find the main villain more sinister and dangerous (yes, I think Celi's Largo is a more credible foe to Forbe's chunky Goldfinger, who just seems like a big bragging buffoon to me). I much prefer the dreamy score in the later film as well (I think this is around the time that Barry really came into his element, and that genius carried uninterrupted through to DAF).

    Most importantly, as I've said numerous times before, I think the fundamental difference is in Connery. He is way too goofy (for lack of a better word) in GF, whereas he is deadly charming and lethal in both measures in TB. There are subtle differences in his approach in the Young films vs. how he acts in the Hamilton entries, and I much prefer what Young is able to bring out of him. I prefer Hamilton's work with Moore.

    Great post. Hamilton cant compete with Young.

    Hamilton was like the Beatles. He created history.

    Nope. That was Young with regards to the style/ direction of the films and Fleming with regards to the story and character. TB was also more successful than GF. Fact.

    Young laid the groundwork and Hamilton took it to the next level with GF. He added the cinematic veneer that would come to define Bond. For me there's more argument for DN and FRWL over TB. For all the positives I think it's easily the weakest of the four.

    It certainly was more successful, but that was due in large part to its predecessor kick starting a phenomenon.

  • Posts: 19,339
    The weakest of the first four films to me is GF by a margin.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,729
    I think Goldfinger is one of the best pts, even better than thunderball
  • Posts: 19,339
    I think Goldfinger is one of the best pts, even better than thunderball

    Meh.....

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe Given the circumstances
    Posts: 7,331
    GOLD-FINGER!! Do-do DO!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I think Goldfinger is one of the best pts, even better than thunderball

    Meh.....

    Literally no comparison. The GF PTS is a billion times more bad ass than TB.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,016
    OK: Let's look what mi6community participants think according to last year's PTS elimination game:

    01. The Living Daylights
    02. Casino Royale
    03. Spectre
    04. The Spy Who Loved Me
    05. Goldfinger
    06. Skyfall
    07. GoldenEye
    08. Moonraker
    09. From Russia With Love
    10. Tomorrow Never Dies
    11. Octopussy
    12. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    13. Licence To Kill
    14. The Man With The Golden Gun
    15. You Only Live Twice
    16. Quantum Of Solace
    17. The World Is Not Enough
    18. Die Another Day
    19. A View To A Kill
    20. Thunderball
    21. For Your Eyes Only
    22. Diamonds Are Forever
    23. Live And Let Die

    One problem that I have with the TB pts is the inconsistant tone. In the one moment, Bond, identifies Bouvoir disguised as a widow which is rather a lighthearted scene, in the next moment, he is breaking Bouvoir's neck in a very brutal way. The scene is followed by the rather comedic jet pack scene (is there even a more obvious way to enter or leave the building?) and the extremely lighthearted water scene.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Far, far, far, far, far, far, far away.
    Posts: 42,565
    GoldenEye is waaay too high,, and FYEO waay too low on that list.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    RC7 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I think Goldfinger is one of the best pts, even better than thunderball

    Meh.....

    Literally no comparison. The GF PTS is a billion times more bad ass than TB.

    Care to elaborate?
    GBF wrote: »
    One problem that I have with the TB pts is the inconsistant tone. In the one moment, Bond, identifies Bouvoir disguised as a widow which is rather a lighthearted scene, in the next moment, he is breaking Bouvoir's neck in a very brutal way. The scene is followed by the rather comedic jet pack scene (is there even a more obvious way to enter or leave the building?) and the extremely lighthearted water scene.

    What's inconsistent about it? The whole thing is cold from beginning to end and played as such. Bond is filled with anger at the beginning, because he didn't get to personally end the life of the man that killed his associates. Only when he sees a "woman" open their own car door does he suspect something is up and follows the scent. He then goes to Bouvar and brutally murders him, cracking his neck with an echo.

    I don't see the issue?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Far, far, far, far, far, far, far away.
    Posts: 42,565
    Imagine in QOS, when Camille opens her own car door, Bond runs around the car and breaks her neck.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Imagine in QOS, when Camille opens her own car door, Bond runs around the car and breaks her neck.

    Shame he didn't do that with Jack Wade or Blofeld in drag !!

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Far, far, far, far, far, far, far away.
    Posts: 42,565
    Jack Wade was supposedly a woman?
  • Posts: 19,339
    Jack Wade was supposedly a woman?

    I don't know what he was.....apart from a pain in the arse.

  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    edited April 2017 Posts: 3,561
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Jack Wade was supposedly a woman?

    I don't know what he was.....apart from a pain in the arse.

    So true. When he turned up again in TND i almost walked out of the cinema.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    edited April 2017 Posts: 28,417
    Imagine in QOS, when Camille opens her own car door, Bond runs around the car and breaks her neck.

    [Bond rips Camille's hand from the door and snaps her neck; lets her fall]

    Bond: "I know you're secretly a man, dammit! You killed two of my colleagues!"

    [Bond reaches his hand towards Camille's face, and tries to tug her skin off]

    "No mask? Impossible. Plastic surgery, maybe?"

    [Random extra pops into frame]


    Extra: "Bond, don't you realize this is the 21st century? In the modern wave of feminism women have taken extreme empowerment from opening their own car doors in an effort to erase the gender stereotype that dictates men such as yourself must do it for them. This gives the women freedom as a gender, as society trusts them to do things without a man. Also, you've just committed murder."

    Bond: "Piss! I am the corrupted, vile representation of toxic masculinity, servant of the patriarchy and misogynistic pig that third wave feminism tells me I am on the internet. Wait until M hears about this..."
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