Bond movie ranking (Simple list, no details)

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  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe Given the circumstances
    Posts: 7,338
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm not a Fleming purist (I've only read a few books), but I see a little of Fleming in all of them except for Brosnan.

    Dalton has some excellent scenes in his films (most notably the Pushkin interrogation, and the scenes with Saunders) but I think early Connery, Moore and Laz were quite good too. Not too sure about Craig, because his build always throws me, but in SF he certainly had a lot of Fleming'esque moments imho.

    I'm not a purist either, but the books are a great point of reference. Whichever crazy direction the franchise goes in next, the books are always the anchor when the going gets tough.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,128
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Well he is the most accurate portrayal of Ian Flemings James Bond, so if you don't like that, well good luck to you! TLD took Flemings short story and really built on it, it has many superb sequences, most of them when Daltons on screen! The pts, best intro shot of 007 since Connery, the opening in Bratislava (Bonds new tux with velcro lapels, a superb touch) the safehouse meeting, Daltons reactions to Koskovs story is great acting without saying anything, Bond with Kara in all their scenes, the car chase is definitely not the best (though it finished high in our recent poll!) but the Aston is really brilliant and it does have some cool moments (the car exiting the shed as it explodes) the death of Saunders and Daltons reaction (and after "Yes.I got the message!) the explosive scene with Pushkin, the Afghanistan scenes do slow it down, but as I've said before, what Bond movie doesn't have a slow section, and anyway Dalton sells it and looks great in the turban (its those eyes!) the cargo fight was superbly staged, and the airport battle had real thrills, not many like it but I think the final shootout with Whitaker was genuinely exciting (unlike that SF inquiry shootout, which is dullsville!) the music by Barry was of his usual high standard!
    So, TLD, no 2 on my list and thoroughly deserves it!

    I also think that the final is really good. Never understood any of the complaints. This is the scene after the big climax. The villain's plan has been destroyed. Now it is only the encounter between Bond and the main villain. I really like how this scene is written. First of all, Bond has the upper hand since he has his gun. However, Whitaker outwit him since he is knowing the surroundings better and has the better equipment. Finally Bond succeeds, because he uses a simple gadget that is more usefull than latest high tech weapons. All in all a great final scene. I also like the conversation between Koskow and Pushkin.

    I mean this is just a short final scene which can be compared to the final scene with Rosa Klebb in FRWL, the final plane scene in GF, the shootout with Stromberg in TSWLM, the Monsson Palace scene in OP or the subway scene in TWINE. And I find that the Whitaker scene in TLD is much more clever and more suspensefull than all these other scenes.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger @!#¤%^§
    Posts: 43,614
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Well he is the most accurate portrayal of Ian Flemings James Bond, so if you don't like that, well good luck to you! TLD took Flemings short story and really built on it, it has many superb sequences, most of them when Daltons on screen! The pts, best intro shot of 007 since Connery, the opening in Bratislava (Bonds new tux with velcro lapels, a superb touch) the safehouse meeting, Daltons reactions to Koskovs story is great acting without saying anything, Bond with Kara in all their scenes, the car chase is definitely not the best (though it finished high in our recent poll!) but the Aston is really brilliant and it does have some cool moments (the car exiting the shed as it explodes) the death of Saunders and Daltons reaction (and after "Yes.I got the message!) the explosive scene with Pushkin, the Afghanistan scenes do slow it down, but as I've said before, what Bond movie doesn't have a slow section, and anyway Dalton sells it and looks great in the turban (its those eyes!) the cargo fight was superbly staged, and the airport battle had real thrills, not many like it but I think the final shootout with Whitaker was genuinely exciting (unlike that SF inquiry shootout, which is dullsville!) the music by Barry was of his usual high standard!
    So, TLD, no 2 on my list and thoroughly deserves it!

    Bond wears a turban? That I would like to see.
  • I don't have a problem with Dalton's acting in LTK bar a few instances (perhaps when he's waking up to find Sanchez, that was definitely overdone). It is merely more intense, and that fits with Bond's goal in the film and the general atmosphere (which is meant to be unsettling).
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 13,706
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Well he is the most accurate portrayal of Ian Flemings James Bond, so if you don't like that, well good luck to you! TLD took Flemings short story and really built on it, it has many superb sequences, most of them when Daltons on screen! The pts, best intro shot of 007 since Connery, the opening in Bratislava (Bonds new tux with velcro lapels, a superb touch) the safehouse meeting, Daltons reactions to Koskovs story is great acting without saying anything, Bond with Kara in all their scenes, the car chase is definitely not the best (though it finished high in our recent poll!) but the Aston is really brilliant and it does have some cool moments (the car exiting the shed as it explodes) the death of Saunders and Daltons reaction (and after "Yes.I got the message!) the explosive scene with Pushkin, the Afghanistan scenes do slow it down, but as I've said before, what Bond movie doesn't have a slow section, and anyway Dalton sells it and looks great in the turban (its those eyes!) the cargo fight was superbly staged, and the airport battle had real thrills, not many like it but I think the final shootout with Whitaker was genuinely exciting (unlike that SF inquiry shootout, which is dullsville!) the music by Barry was of his usual high standard!
    So, TLD, no 2 on my list and thoroughly deserves it!

    Dalton really sells the danger aspect in the final scene with Whitaker. I feel there's a better chance of Dalton's Bond actually getting shot and killed by Whitaker than I do Craig with Silva's whole army of men. The Whitaker confrontation scene itself is fairly simple, and maybe that's why it works so well when compared to the SF shootout.
    Always glad to see love for TLD. At the time of it's release I felt there was too much indifference to Dalton. I thought he was great and couldn't wait to see where he'd take the series next.
    I'll always have a soft spot for DAYLIGHTS....and unlike many, I love the sequences in Afghanistan. Pure adventure and Dalton and Kara really seem like they're out in the middle of nowhere in that desert...especially when he makes the reference to New York. Little touches like that give TLD a realism and sense of adventure unseen since.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,244
    Birdleson wrote: »
    The Whitaker scene could have been great, but is ruined by Bond continuing to shoot the "body" armor that covers little more than the guy's face, when the man's whole body is exposed.
    Yes, a 'kneecap' would have been great, but it is what it is.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,247
    Bond does seem a bit slow to keep shooting Whitaker in the armor, but it's still a tense and thrilling scene regardless. It plays out like the reverse ending to a Hamilton film, where the villain gets the jump on Bond, only for Bond to turn the tables on them. Whitaker does the table turning of course, but Bond gets the last laugh this time. That one negative doesn't ruin the whole scene for me.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 11,175
    I think that's genuinely quite a tense climax aswell. Whitaker himself seemed kind of underwhelming due to relatively little screentime throughout the film, but the showdown is well staged.

    Dalton's stiff sounding quip of "he met his Waterloo" I could have done without though.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger @!#¤%^§
    Posts: 43,614
    Birdleson wrote: »
    The Whitaker scene could have been great, but is ruined by Bond continuing to shoot the "body" armor that covers little more than the guy's face, when the man's whole body is exposed.

    It s not by far the first or last time we see something similar on film. What the hell are they thinking?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,244
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think that's genuinely quite a tense climax aswell. Whitaker himself seemed kind of underwhelming due to relatively little screentime throughout the film, but the showdown is well staged.

    Dalton's stiff sounding quip of "he met his Waterloo" I could have done without though.

    I loved that line myself. :))
  • Posts: 4,814
    Well I think Dalton finally made Bond a flesh and blood character! Connery was marvellous, but he was a bit too cold and unemotional, (He wouldn't have worked in OHMSS!), Lazenby tried to be like Connery, but he did convince in scenes with Tracy, Moore made 007 more of a Superman, he's on record as saying he never took the character seriously, but Rog got away with it because he always had that likability factor. Brosnan was a disaster, and took on a role that was way beyond his capabilities, if anyone looked uncomfortable playing Bond, it was him! Dalton showed a vulnerability
    which made easier to relate to. Fleming portrays Bond as a hard drinking, smoking, eye for the ladies, trained killer, who doesn't really like his job, but just happens to be very good at it! Oh, and humour is not much in evidence either, for those who insist its vital to the make up of the part, I disagree! There's a wonderful throwaway moment in the opening scene of TLD. As Bond stands up, rifle ready, he turns to Saunders and says "Bring the chair", but he says it with a heavy sigh. Bond is about to kill someone, and you know by him that he is uncomfortable with what he is about to do!
    Craig is the only one who rivals Dalton, imho, except for the smoking of course. But even Craig plays the Superman card, most notably in SF pts. Being shot (Twice!) and falling from a great height, and into a raging river... and survives! I think even Wile E. Coyote would have laughed at that one!
    So I still believe Dalton is the best (With Craig closely second!)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Well I think Dalton finally made Bond a flesh and blood character! Connery was marvellous, but he was a bit too cold and unemotional, (He wouldn't have worked in OHMSS!), Lazenby tried to be like Connery, but he did convince in scenes with Tracy, Moore made 007 more of a Superman, he's on record as saying he never took the character seriously, but Rog got away with it because he always had that likability factor. Brosnan was a disaster, and took on a role that was way beyond his capabilities, if anyone looked uncomfortable playing Bond, it was him! Dalton showed a vulnerability
    which made easier to relate to. Fleming portrays Bond as a hard drinking, smoking, eye for the ladies, trained killer, who doesn't really like his job, but just happens to be very good at it! Oh, and humour is not much in evidence either, for those who insist its vital to the make up of the part, I disagree! There's a wonderful throwaway moment in the opening scene of TLD. As Bond stands up, rifle ready, he turns to Saunders and says "Bring the chair", but he says it with a heavy sigh. Bond is about to kill someone, and you know by him that he is uncomfortable with what he is about to do!
    Craig is the only one who rivals Dalton, imho, except for the smoking of course. But even Craig plays the Superman card, most notably in SF pts. Being shot (Twice!) and falling from a great height, and into a raging river... and survives! I think even Wile E. Coyote would have laughed at that one!
    So I still believe Dalton is the best (With Craig closely second!)

    +1

    and of course

    DALTON RULEZ™
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,244
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Well I think Dalton finally made Bond a flesh and blood character! Connery was marvellous, but he was a bit too cold and unemotional, (He wouldn't have worked in OHMSS!), Lazenby tried to be like Connery, but he did convince in scenes with Tracy, Moore made 007 more of a Superman, he's on record as saying he never took the character seriously, but Rog got away with it because he always had that likability factor. Brosnan was a disaster, and took on a role that was way beyond his capabilities, if anyone looked uncomfortable playing Bond, it was him! Dalton showed a vulnerability
    which made easier to relate to. Fleming portrays Bond as a hard drinking, smoking, eye for the ladies, trained killer, who doesn't really like his job, but just happens to be very good at it! Oh, and humour is not much in evidence either, for those who insist its vital to the make up of the part, I disagree! There's a wonderful throwaway moment in the opening scene of TLD. As Bond stands up, rifle ready, he turns to Saunders and says "Bring the chair", but he says it with a heavy sigh. Bond is about to kill someone, and you know by him that he is uncomfortable with what he is about to do!
    Craig is the only one who rivals Dalton, imho, except for the smoking of course. But even Craig plays the Superman card, most notably in SF pts. Being shot (Twice!) and falling from a great height, and into a raging river... and survives! I think even Wile E. Coyote would have laughed at that one!
    So I still believe Dalton is the best (With Craig closely second!)

    +1

    and of course

    DALTON RULEZ™

    You guys rock.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 11,175
    ...but the vulnerability was somewhat hit and miss to me and not always convincing. I get what Dalton was trying to do in making Bond a less glamorous character. There's a some nice moments (like outside Felix's house), but Dalton's dramatic style to me sometimes felt as though it was acted. There's some scenes in LTK where I just can't help thinking "he's trying to sell it" and it frankly takes me out of the moment (finding Della, the Hemmingway house where Brown gives the stronger performance).

    As much as I admire Dalton I think Craig's performances have more subtlety. I say that as someone who originally preferred Dalton.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I still think Connery owns Bond. Sure he was a bit cold, but that's what I expect from a man like Bond. His life experience has hardened him. Yesterday I noticed the part in DN when he tells Honey "because I had to" when she's upset that he killed the guard on Crab Key in cold blood in the swamp. He didn't dwell on it, but he conveyed his remorse. The same goes for the Dent kill. It's that subtlety which I appreciate.
  • Posts: 11,175
    Connery may have been a bit too superhuman sometimes but he had the confidence and "man of the world" quality that Bond needs.

    Plus he had a very strong screen presence.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,244
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Connery may have been a bit too superhuman sometimes but he had the confidence and "man of the world" quality that Bond needs.

    Plus he had a very strong screen presence.
    Reading the Fleming novels has spoiled me on the superhuman part of cinema Bond I'm afraid.
    Beginning with DAF that part was no longer a fringe trait- it became increasingly ingrained IMO.
    It sort of evaporated for Dalton's two, then returned to pepper most of Brosnan's movies.
    I realize why QOS & SP are my favourite Craig movies; he's least physically invulnerable in those two...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,244
    Birdleson wrote: »
    You're saying that he's physically vulnerable in SP but not CR? In the SP he shrugs off invasive (supposedly crippling) torture. escapes and takes out a dozen armed men with no effort, blows up the facility and retunes to London to pull off even more craziness. In CR he almost dies form being poisoned, gets tortured and ends up in (the) hospital.
    Okay, point taken, but seriously, getting returned to life, then playing cards as if nothing happened, to say nothing of the parkour marathon the would make an Olympic athlete wince? In SP he merely shook off two dental drill pains & shot a machine gun very accurately...

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    Craig just getting back to the poker game after he nearly died of poisoning always feels a bit off.
    But then Craig is Supes anyway in most of the action scenes. I never saw them as realistic. Especially not the ridiculous things he goes through in Skyfall. That even beyond Moore and is quite comical.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,244
    Birdleson wrote: »
    In the SP he shrugs off invasive (supposedly crippling) torture.
    Another thing here, I'm no MD but what Blofeld was saying was bullshit. You can't drill a hole that small into anyone's skull & get the effect he was describing. He just wanted to freak Bond out & put him through more pain. I had a wisdom tooth yanked out with no Novocaine working to kill the pain (it was not a quick process & amazingly painful) & I walked out of the office & drove right home. And I'm not Bond...
    :))
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,128
    Birdleson wrote: »
    You're saying that he's physically vulnerable in SP but not CR? In the SP he shrugs off invasive (supposedly crippling) torture. escapes and takes out a dozen armed men with no effort, blows up the facility and retunes to London to pull off even more craziness. In CR he almost dies form being poisoned, gets tortured and ends up in (the) hospital.

    Totally agree. And I really dislike Spectre and QoS for exactly that. Even in QoS Bond is like a killing mashine who does not seem to struggle to kill a dozen of men (eg. in the hotel). Like in Spectre I have the feeling that evil organisation which is supposed to be so clever and which is working so perfectly in the background is beaten by Bond way too easy while all governments are not able to do anything against these organisations. In my eyes, this is the point where Bond turns into superman.

    Of course this is much worse in Sp compared to QoS.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 36,337
    Bond's inconsistencies have always stood out the most to me in Mendes' two films: can't save Severine, but kills all of Silva's men and captures him mere seconds later with no problems. Endures crippling, debilitating torture in SP (missed opportunity: why show us that Madeleine is skilled with a gun and this torture could render Bond useless if we aren't going to see Madeleine helping Bond escape?) and executes everyone with a shot or two with considerable ease, goes on to take out a helicopter, whilst on a speeding boat, in the middle of the night using a pistol.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,244
    I have the Bonds I *LOVE* like TLD or DN, and I have the Bonds I enjoy a bit less like AVTAK or SF, but it's all good.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited October 2016 Posts: 9,021
    You have to be patient with me. Having watched this many Bond films lately really makes me think about my ranking. It's an evolution obviously.
    It never felt right having DN as low as 14, 16 and 18. I corrected this greatest of all errors finally.
    I only discovered DAF fully last year. Since then it has become one of my favourite to watch. Unthinkable that I had it at the bottom up to 2014.
    I tend to love the no-nonsense, harder, more realistic films more nowadays, hence placings 8 to 12 are all of that kind.
    The one film that really dropped down is DAD -6 (I can hear some of you laughing hard now). I guess I finally came to my senses... the biggest drops then are TND and QOS -3


    Please accept my new ranking. I put much thought in it. I will review it again in one month and see if I will replace my "final" ranking for 2016.

    1 SP
    2 GE
    3 TLD
    4 OHMSS
    5 CR
    6 OP
    7 GF
    8 DN
    9 FRWL
    10 LTK
    11 FYEO
    12 QOS

    13 TND
    14 DAF
    15 TSWLM
    16 MR
    17 TMWTGG
    18 LALD
    19 DAD
    20 TB
    21 YOLT
    22 AVTAK
    23 TWINE
    24 SF
  • Posts: 4,814
    Apart from GE, thats a really excellent list up to 12!
  • Posts: 3,965
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Bond's inconsistencies have always stood out the most to me in Mendes' two films: can't save Severine, but kills all of Silva's men and captures him mere seconds later with no problems. Endures crippling, debilitating torture in SP (missed opportunity: why show us that Madeleine is skilled with a gun and this torture could render Bond useless if we aren't going to see Madeleine helping Bond escape?) and executes everyone with a shot or two with considerable ease, goes on to take out a helicopter, whilst on a speeding boat, in the middle of the night using a pistol.

    How would he have saved Severine? Didn't he only get one shot?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,244
    vzok wrote: »
    How would he have saved Severine? Didn't he only get one shot?
    It's a movie. :)) They could have made it so if they'd wanted.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    One of the most ridiculous moments is when all of a sudden out of thin air all those helicopters appear. But it's a typical Skyfall moment. Almost like an amateur script.
  • Posts: 13,706
    I think Severine should have been save and thus kept the series tradition of having a lead Bond girl. As it stands, SF is the only film without one.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Bond's inconsistencies have always stood out the most to me in Mendes' two films: can't save Severine, but kills all of Silva's men and captures him mere seconds later with no problems. Endures crippling, debilitating torture in SP (missed opportunity: why show us that Madeleine is skilled with a gun and this torture could render Bond useless if we aren't going to see Madeleine helping Bond escape?) and executes everyone with a shot or two with considerable ease, goes on to take out a helicopter, whilst on a speeding boat, in the middle of the night using a pistol.
    This is an interesting point. I didn't really care that much about it in SF but it really bothered me in SP. This was because I was invested in SF and the characters, but was quite bored throughout most of SP, and especially at that point in the film (post-torture). So I found super-Craig rather annoying in the latter film.

    It's fascinating how one's mood and investment in the narrative can lead one to forgive something idiotic in one film, and not in another.

    SF got away with a lot due to strength of the visuals and the character work, at least imho.
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