BOND POLLS 2017: Craig stays or leaves? Choose one of the four options [RESULTS, page 12]

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  • RC7RC7
    edited January 2016 Posts: 10,512
    @Gustav_Graves - I'm simply confused as to what exactly you're advocating. The option A you suggest is fine, I think I made that clear, what the last few comments have been in relation to are this comment you made...
    Hence why I prefer option A). And if that's not possible, then I think option B) should also be considered seriously

    I simply don't see the need for another actor to continue Craig's timeline because it IS a very definitive timeline for the character and tied to the one actor. Not to mention, you'd have to cast an actor close to Craig's age, as age is a very definite issue in his films. Your thinking seems muddy, you want to continue a timeline, but not really reference the very thing that makes that timeline unique. It just seems odd. Returning Bond to a non-timeline specific continuity makes far more sense. [In that scenario].
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    But my point now really is: Lower down all that stuff, all these complex character connections for Bond #25 :-)! Don't make them part of the main plot or villain's scheme anymore in entry #25. Don't attach a complete new mission for Bond with his past. Buttt, I still think that it is entirely possible to at least refer to some past events correctly, to maintain a certain chronology. Chronology or Continuity does not necessarily say something about how extensive that Chronology/Continuity is written in the main story. They can appear as small cameo lines (TSWLM) or as extensive plot developments (SP).

    So again, for Bond #25 I prefer a TSWLM-like approach: Daniel Craig returns, small reference to how Bond broke up with Madeleine, chronological timeline stays intact, but no complex personal backgrounds a la SP. Option A) that is.

    But can they do this now they have set up Blofeld in the way they have?

    I think the best way is as you say a quick line saying it didnt work out with Madeline and have Blofeld come back with a normal scheme and just forget the brother thing ever happened and have Bond only ever refer to him as Blofeld.

    That would probably work best with a new Bond though. If Craig stays he brings all this emotional baggage they have foisted on him from the previous films. And if Mendes stays as well then forget it. Madeline is coming back prominently as is Blofeld and theres going to be a big emotional ending to Dan's character arc with it all being tied together once again.

    Given the mess we are in after SP I would go for the Craig era to be standalone and self contatined like the Nolan Batmans and settle for an adaptation of YOLT with Bond killing Blofeld but getting amnesia and being cared for on some island somewhere by Madeline with MI6 thinking he is dead. The end.

    And then lets start again with a new Bond and try and think it through a bit this time.
  • Posts: 11,119
    But my point now really is: Lower down all that stuff, all these complex character connections for Bond #25 :-)! Don't make them part of the main plot or villain's scheme anymore in entry #25. Don't attach a complete new mission for Bond with his past. Buttt, I still think that it is entirely possible to at least refer to some past events correctly, to maintain a certain chronology. Chronology or Continuity does not necessarily say something about how extensive that Chronology/Continuity is written in the main story. They can appear as small cameo lines (TSWLM) or as extensive plot developments (SP).

    So again, for Bond #25 I prefer a TSWLM-like approach: Daniel Craig returns, small reference to how Bond broke up with Madeleine, chronological timeline stays intact, but no complex personal backgrounds a la SP. Option A) that is.

    But can they do this now they have set up Blofeld in the way they have?

    I think the best way is as you say a quick line saying it didnt work out with Madeline and have Blofeld come back with a normal scheme and just forget the brother thing ever happened and have Bond only ever refer to him as Blofeld.

    That would probably work best with a new Bond though. If Craig stays he brings all this emotional baggage they have foisted on him from the previous films. And if Mendes stays as well then forget it. Madeline is coming back prominently as is Blofeld and theres going to be a big emotional ending to Dan's character arc with it all being tied together once again.

    Given the mess we are in after SP I would go for the Craig era to be standalone and self contatined like the Nolan Batmans and settle for an adaptation of YOLT with Bond killing Blofeld but getting amnesia and being cared for on some island somewhere by Madeline with MI6 thinking he is dead. The end.

    And then lets start again with a new Bond and try and think it through a bit this time.

    It can be done perfectly ;-). But it does take a damn good screenplay writer to do that I think.

    Concerning Blofeld....I think it's pivotal to use the FRWL/TB template in a slightly different way. S.P.E.C.T.R.E. can return as a mastermind syndicate, but let the No#1 position become a deputy position until the very end. And that No#1 is a cameo.

    The lead villain however is a Largo-esque S.P.E.C.T.R.E.-executioner. A bit like Denbigh, but then miles better and he should be the guy who's driving the plot.

    In the very final scene, Waltz' Blofeld returns from his 'staged assasination'. He shoots down the deputy head of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and he is the prime leader again. And you make sure Bond and MI6 don't know a thing about this. Like in FRWL :-).

    Problem solved :-).
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    It can be done perfectly ;-). But it does take a damn good screenplay writer to do that I think.

    Well we've got P&W so we're buggered then!

    Concerning Blofeld....I think it's pivotal to use the FRWL/TB template in a slightly different way. S.P.E.C.T.R.E. can return as a mastermind syndicate, but let the No#1 position become a deputy position until the very end. And that No#1 is a cameo.

    The lead villain however is a Largo-esque S.P.E.C.T.R.E.-executioner. A bit like Denbigh, but then miles better and he should be the guy who's driving the plot.

    In the very final scene, Waltz' Blofeld returns from his 'staged assasination'. He shoots down the deputy head of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and he is the prime leader again. And you make sure Bond and MI6 don't know a thing about this. Like in FRWL :-).

    Problem solved :-).

    I agree entirely - although this was how they should have done SP. With either Denbeigh or Franz as Largo and Blofeld making a tiny cameo
    like Luke in episode VII.
    But given where we are with this likely as not being Craig's last film and Waltz signed on as Blofeld then I cant see past the likelihood that Blofeld wont have a big role to play.

  • Posts: 4,325
    It can be done perfectly ;-). But it does take a damn good screenplay writer to do that I think.

    Well we've got P&W so we're buggered then!

    Concerning Blofeld....I think it's pivotal to use the FRWL/TB template in a slightly different way. S.P.E.C.T.R.E. can return as a mastermind syndicate, but let the No#1 position become a deputy position until the very end. And that No#1 is a cameo.

    The lead villain however is a Largo-esque S.P.E.C.T.R.E.-executioner. A bit like Denbigh, but then miles better and he should be the guy who's driving the plot.

    In the very final scene, Waltz' Blofeld returns from his 'staged assasination'. He shoots down the deputy head of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and he is the prime leader again. And you make sure Bond and MI6 don't know a thing about this. Like in FRWL :-).

    Problem solved :-).

    I agree entirely - although this was how they should have done SP. With either Denbeigh or Franz as Largo and Blofeld making a tiny cameo
    like Luke in episode VII.
    But given where we are with this likely as not being Craig's last film and Waltz signed on as Blofeld then I cant see past the likelihood that Blofeld wont have a big role to play.

    When Spectre was announced I was thinking that they might have revealed Blofeld in that way, a small cameo at the end of the film for him to return proper in Bond 25.
  • Posts: 11,119
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    It can be done perfectly ;-). But it does take a damn good screenplay writer to do that I think.

    Well we've got P&W so we're buggered then!

    Concerning Blofeld....I think it's pivotal to use the FRWL/TB template in a slightly different way. S.P.E.C.T.R.E. can return as a mastermind syndicate, but let the No#1 position become a deputy position until the very end. And that No#1 is a cameo.

    The lead villain however is a Largo-esque S.P.E.C.T.R.E.-executioner. A bit like Denbigh, but then miles better and he should be the guy who's driving the plot.

    In the very final scene, Waltz' Blofeld returns from his 'staged assasination'. He shoots down the deputy head of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and he is the prime leader again. And you make sure Bond and MI6 don't know a thing about this. Like in FRWL :-).

    Problem solved :-).

    I agree entirely - although this was how they should have done SP. With either Denbeigh or Franz as Largo and Blofeld making a tiny cameo
    like Luke in episode VII.
    But given where we are with this likely as not being Craig's last film and Waltz signed on as Blofeld then I cant see past the likelihood that Blofeld wont have a big role to play.

    When Spectre was announced I was thinking that they might have revealed Blofeld in that way, a small cameo at the end of the film for him to return proper in Bond 25.

    I've been saying that for years. Just read back my posts in the "Who's going to play Ernst?"-topic. I still had Waltz listed as my favourite to play Blofeld, but personally I really wanted to have a slow introduction of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and Blofeld over a course of 2 or 3 films. Like it was done with DN-FRWL-TB-YOLT.

    Then again, I think the major force who prevented this to happen was: Daniel Craig. He wanted to pop a storyline that should have been told in 2 or 3 films in one entire film. And I do think, regardless of how a great actor Craig is, that once again here it shows Craig was really adament on doing a 4th film that could be his final film. He, and EON, put his career perspectives in front center, and not the actual screenplay.

    I really hope Daniel Craig returns. Hence why I went for option A). But my gut feeling tells me that Barbara, Michael and (co-producer) Daniel will have some very very stiff and lengthy negotiations for a possible 5th fi
  • Posts: 4,325
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    It can be done perfectly ;-). But it does take a damn good screenplay writer to do that I think.

    Well we've got P&W so we're buggered then!

    Concerning Blofeld....I think it's pivotal to use the FRWL/TB template in a slightly different way. S.P.E.C.T.R.E. can return as a mastermind syndicate, but let the No#1 position become a deputy position until the very end. And that No#1 is a cameo.

    The lead villain however is a Largo-esque S.P.E.C.T.R.E.-executioner. A bit like Denbigh, but then miles better and he should be the guy who's driving the plot.

    In the very final scene, Waltz' Blofeld returns from his 'staged assasination'. He shoots down the deputy head of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and he is the prime leader again. And you make sure Bond and MI6 don't know a thing about this. Like in FRWL :-).

    Problem solved :-).

    I agree entirely - although this was how they should have done SP. With either Denbeigh or Franz as Largo and Blofeld making a tiny cameo
    like Luke in episode VII.
    But given where we are with this likely as not being Craig's last film and Waltz signed on as Blofeld then I cant see past the likelihood that Blofeld wont have a big role to play.

    When Spectre was announced I was thinking that they might have revealed Blofeld in that way, a small cameo at the end of the film for him to return proper in Bond 25.

    I've been saying that for years. Just read back my posts in the "Who's going to play Ernst?"-topic. I still had Waltz listed as my favourite to play Blofeld, but personally I really wanted to have a slow introduction of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and Blofeld over a course of 2 or 3 films. Like it was done with DN-FRWL-TB-YOLT.

    Then again, I think the major force who prevented this to happen was: Daniel Craig. He wanted to pop a storyline that should have been told in 2 or 3 films in one entire film. And I do think, regardless of how a great actor Craig is, that once again here it shows Craig was really adament on doing a 4th film that could be his final film. He, and EON, put his career perspectives in front center, and not the actual screenplay.

    I really hope Daniel Craig returns. Hence why I went for option A). But my gut feeling tells me that Barbara, Michael and (co-producer) Daniel will have some very very stiff and lengthy negotiations for a possible 5th fi

    I did have another retcon idea that they could have gone with - Mr. White could have been revealed as Blofeld. Then we would have had the slow reveal - imagine going back and watching CR and QoS and thinking - that's Blofeld! Okay it's a terrible idea!
  • RC7RC7
    edited January 2016 Posts: 10,512
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    It can be done perfectly ;-). But it does take a damn good screenplay writer to do that I think.

    Well we've got P&W so we're buggered then!

    Concerning Blofeld....I think it's pivotal to use the FRWL/TB template in a slightly different way. S.P.E.C.T.R.E. can return as a mastermind syndicate, but let the No#1 position become a deputy position until the very end. And that No#1 is a cameo.

    The lead villain however is a Largo-esque S.P.E.C.T.R.E.-executioner. A bit like Denbigh, but then miles better and he should be the guy who's driving the plot.

    In the very final scene, Waltz' Blofeld returns from his 'staged assasination'. He shoots down the deputy head of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and he is the prime leader again. And you make sure Bond and MI6 don't know a thing about this. Like in FRWL :-).

    Problem solved :-).

    I agree entirely - although this was how they should have done SP. With either Denbeigh or Franz as Largo and Blofeld making a tiny cameo
    like Luke in episode VII.
    But given where we are with this likely as not being Craig's last film and Waltz signed on as Blofeld then I cant see past the likelihood that Blofeld wont have a big role to play.

    When Spectre was announced I was thinking that they might have revealed Blofeld in that way, a small cameo at the end of the film for him to return proper in Bond 25.

    I've been saying that for years. Just read back my posts in the "Who's going to play Ernst?"-topic. I still had Waltz listed as my favourite to play Blofeld, but personally I really wanted to have a slow introduction of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and Blofeld over a course of 2 or 3 films. Like it was done with DN-FRWL-TB-YOLT.

    For kids born recently and certainly post-SP this will be the case, though. SP will have been the shadowy group in CR, QoS and revealed in SP to have been bankrolling Silva in SF and overseeing Quantum. The fact it's retcon applies to those of us experiencing it real time. In 20 years there will be kids on this forum arguing that it works seamlessly, I just hope Wiz is still on here to unleash the dragon.

    When all is said and done SP happened. We can't change that so we have to roll with it. As Wiz said earlier...
    I would go for the Craig era to be standalone and self contatined like the Nolan Batmans and settle for an adaptation of YOLT with Bond killing Blofeld but getting amnesia and being cared for on some island somewhere by Madeline with MI6 thinking he is dead. The end.

    And then lets start again with a new Bond and try and think it through a bit this time.

    And I think these are the two viable options. Everything else involves too much narrative gymnastics. If you want a good story to round out the Craig tenure, lessen the childhood trauma angle, give us an intriguing plot, some personal stakes that are born out of the here and now and then send DC on his way with a Gold DB5. And/or Start afresh with a new actor, a new style and a new take on the material.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    Having Bond remain emotionally detached like M told him to.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    RC7 wrote: »
    then send DC on his way with a Gold DB5.

    F**k off! Now youre just trying to wind me up.

    Thing is with Mendes on board you couldnt say 100% woouldnt happen.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    then send DC on his way with a Gold DB5.

    F**k off! Now youre just trying to wind me up.

    Thing is with Mendes on board you couldnt say 100% woouldnt happen.

    Never!
  • Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    then send DC on his way with a Gold DB5.

    F**k off! Now youre just trying to wind me up.

    Thing is with Mendes on board you couldnt say 100% woouldnt happen.

    Never!

    Never....say never again Mr @RC7 :-)!
  • Posts: 11,119
    PS @RC7: What would your choice be? I can then send your choice to EON Productions hehehe :))
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited January 2016 Posts: 4,436
    No reference to Swann.

    What you whant is bring back Swann, vergot the some of others things and that's it. I don't whant Swann to return but Monica Bellucci return. For rest i stil whant to see things i whant since QOS. Do things with some of new Spectre upsets. More chachter development not less.

    Return of Camile.
    Return of Monica Bellucci for one of two movies. There things i like to see with her. Her return is one thing...
    Return of Felix, played by Jeffrey Wright.
    Return of Vesper.

    Bond 25 be named to hint later in movie.
    Bond 26 be name to hint in the maintitle of Spectre.
  • Posts: 11,119
    M_Balje wrote: »
    No reference to Swann.

    What you whant is bring back Swann, vergot the some of others things and that's it. I don't whant Swann to return but Monica Bellucci return. For rest i stil whant to see things i whant since QOS. Do things with some of new Spectre upsets. More chacher development not less.

    Return of Camile.
    Return of Monica Bellucci for one of two movies. There things i like to see with her. Her return is one thing...
    Return of Felix, played by Jeffrey Wright.
    Return of Vesper.

    Bond 25 be named to hint later in movie.
    Bond 26 be name to hint in the maintitle of Spectre.

    Lieve lieve LIEVE schat :-P!

    What is your choice Mijnheer Bakje:

    A, B, C of....D.

    :-D
  • Posts: 6,799
    I go with choice A too...with reservations. I definitely want Craig back, but I only want Waltz/Blofeld in a smaller role. I want to see a new villain. but I'm damned if I know how they are going to do all this. A good screenwriter is essential. ( Calling Paul Haggis!)
    Oh, and I would like to see Jeffrey Wright back as Felix too.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Keep voting please ;)
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    The problem here is, people are trying to find and make logical sense of the timelines, which has always been the case. Like it or not all 6 actors are playing the one same man, just different iterations of the character. EoN are masters when it comes to not really giving a f*** and I suspect three-fifths of a f*** will not be given moving forward irrespective of what happens in the next film. It's all so simple when it comes to this, ignore it, move on and roll with it. The 2006/2008 dates mixup for QoS taking place moments after CR is a very small example of this.

    Craig should at least do one more Bond film and I'm convinced he will. However, when his successor comes along all they need to do is just get on with telling a thrilling story. If EoN had the balls to do it back in the late 60s to replace king Connery which was tantamount to film series suicide and to replace him with a nobody "actor" at that only proves that in today's age, this is all elementary stuff that's a non entity. Naturally, it's instinct to want and try to make things make sense but for the sake of the movies and understanding that this is all entertainment, sometimes you just have to put your hands up, say, "ok" and just roll with the fact that it all comes down to logistics in telling the thrilling tales of a contemporary secret agent of a particular age. People may not like it but that's just the way it is, which is why all those holding out hope for a Bond film set in the 50s/60s can keep on dreaming. It's not going to happen.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Keep voting please ;-). Let our voices be heard.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Keep voting please :-)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    pachazo wrote: »
    Well, given the choices above, I'd have to go with C.

    I'd be sad to see Craig go but at this point I have absolutely no desire to see a sequel to SP. And come on, how silly would it be to have only Craig return and ignore everything that happened before? That's not really a viable option. Besides, the more I think about it, SP had quite the suitable ending for the DC era. He finally ends up with the girl he loves and rides off and quits his job. Perfect.

    I think that option B would be the worst of both worlds for me. We'd lose Craig and have to continue on with the SP nonsense. However, if I had to bet on it, I'd put my money on us getting option A.
    Fully on board with this. C for me as a first choice.

    However, I have a feeling we'll get A. As long as they do a good job of it, I'll live with it, no matter how uncomfortably, because it will likely only last for one more film before we in fact get C for B26.
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 11,119
    @RC7? @M_Balje? Please state clearly what your option would be. Like @bondjames did.

    So far these are the results after 20 people have casted their choices:

    A]...65%..(13 voters)
    B]...00%..(00 voters)
    C]...30%..(06 voters)
    D]...05%..(01 voters)

    I'm surprised there are no votes for option B] just yet, as this seems rather interesting too no?
  • Posts: 1,680
    Im in favor of Option A but it a lot of effort needs to go into making the film feel & look fresh.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    @RC7? @M_Balje? Please state clearly what your option would be. Like @bondjames did.

    So far these are the results after 20 people have casted their choices:

    A]...65%..(13 voters)
    B]...00%..(00 voters)
    C]...30%..(06 voters)
    D]...05%..(01 voters)

    I'm surprised there are no votes for option B] just yet, as this seems rather interesting too no?

    A and C both work for me, I have no preference. The reason no one has voted B is because it's not a good idea.
  • SerialHitmanSerialHitman Plotting my revenge
    Posts: 45
    Personally I'd go for Option A.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited February 2016 Posts: 6,778
    I'd go with option B.

    Craig has had a fairly good run, with two classics and no absolute stinkers. I don't feel like he is all that eager to continue. Time for a fresh actor. Though I would like to see Fiennes, Harris, Whishaw and Wright return.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,402
    I'll go with A. I absolutely loved what they did with tieing the films together. Now when I watch his films, especially CR, I know that Spectre is behind everything that happens. Even with Bond riding off into the sunset in the DB5, I really want to see how or if the same storyline can pick back up.
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    Haven't given it much thought plot wise, but this is how I'd ideally like to see B25 go down...

    Bond is officially retired & living life with Madeline until he is inadvertently yanked out due to dire circumstances concerning Blofeld. Blofeld will either be broken out of prison by SPECTRE, or demands will be made to set him free. Cities across the world are targeted with terrorism from SPECTRE, and Madeline gets kidnapped (not killed). Meanwhile, national security agents & MI6 agents are dropping like flies by SPECTRE assassins. The movie should be utter chaos & really serve as Bonds' biggest challenge thus far. I would like to see Bond in Dubai, and a final showdown set in an ancient castle somewhere in the mountains where he rescues Madeline & kills Blofeld.

    Let this be Daniel's grand finale (if he decides not to do B26). Bring back Waltz, Seydoux, and the entire MI6 team. It must be epic, emotional, and exciting. Again, I'm not entirely sure how I'd like to see it play out, but the above ideas would serve as some potential factors.
  • StanKobraStanKobra Serbia
    Posts: 108
    A, of course.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    A I guess but I'm really not a fan of the direction SPECTRE went in. If they can play down that brother element and get on with just having Bond and Blofeld being mortal enemies instead of a childhood spat then fair play but Bond 25 is going to have to be impressive to wash away that unpleasant taste it's predecessor left in my mouth.
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