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SPECTRE - Press reviews and personal reviews (BEWARE! Spoiler reviews allowed)

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  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Desk wrote: »
    Just to follow up on my own post earlier - I think at the heart of the problem with Craig's Bond post Casino Royale is a lack of a sense of humour.

    There's no self-deprecating wit, and no witty rejoinders which might make him seem more human and likable. Certainly no laughing at himself as Dalton's Bond did when discovering he'd been called 'a horse's arse'.

    Not even an, 'That's because you know what I can do with my little finger'.

    The closest thing from humour in Spectre is Bond waving at a goon at the funeral. And the exchanges with M and C at the start, which should have been a chance for humour, instead come across as charmless and bluntly antagonistic.

    Are the screenwriters no longer capable of investing Bond with a sense of wit?

    Desk

    Hahaha incredible.

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Desk wrote: »
    Just to follow up on my own post earlier - I think at the heart of the problem with Craig's Bond post Casino Royale is a lack of a sense of humour.

    There's no self-deprecating wit, and no witty rejoinders which might make him seem more human and likable. Certainly no laughing at himself as Dalton's Bond did when discovering he'd been called 'a horse's arse'.

    Not even an, 'That's because you know what I can do with my little finger'.

    The closest thing from humour in Spectre is Bond waving at a goon at the funeral. And the exchanges with M and C at the start, which should have been a chance for humour, instead come across as charmless and bluntly antagonistic.

    Are the screenwriters no longer capable of investing Bond with a sense of wit?

    Desk

    Hahaha incredible.

    I can only assume it's an attempt at satire.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    To be honest, if you can't see the many examples of " Humour" in the Craig Bonds,
    Then perhaps the problem is with "your " sense of humour, rather than everyone
    Else's. :))
  • skropper13skropper13 United States
    Posts: 117
    Zekidk wrote: »
    I see very few people (and reviewers in general) commenting on the Austria action setpiece, which according to Gregg Wilson, is the "crown jewel" of SP.

    Any thoughts?

    I again only saw it once and just last night. But after one viewing I felt the scene was very short. Not anything to write home about. I , of course, will have to see it again though.

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I thought it was very inventive, and we'll up to the Bond history of pushing
    what's possible, in stunt work. :)
  • DeskDesk
    Posts: 24
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Desk wrote: »
    Just to follow up on my own post earlier - I think at the heart of the problem with Craig's Bond post Casino Royale is a lack of a sense of humour.

    There's no self-deprecating wit, and no witty rejoinders which might make him seem more human and likable. Certainly no laughing at himself as Dalton's Bond did when discovering he'd been called 'a horse's arse'.

    Not even an, 'That's because you know what I can do with my little finger'.

    The closest thing from humour in Spectre is Bond waving at a goon at the funeral. And the exchanges with M and C at the start, which should have been a chance for humour, instead come across as charmless and bluntly antagonistic.

    Are the screenwriters no longer capable of investing Bond with a sense of wit?

    Desk

    Hahaha incredible.
    Thank you.

    Desk

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Yes, very well done. I just can't make my mind up as to whether it's
    Jean-Paul Sartre or Jean-Claude Van Damme :D
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    That must be it!! These things can stay in the back of your mind unless you're reminded :))

    Subliminal messaging.

    Atually; It wasn't. I saw Dave at his hight's-and hushing it because of lacking of religious wit makes that thought even funnier..ha ha!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    RC7 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Desk wrote: »
    Just to follow up on my own post earlier - I think at the heart of the problem with Craig's Bond post Casino Royale is a lack of a sense of humour.

    There's no self-deprecating wit, and no witty rejoinders which might make him seem more human and likable. Certainly no laughing at himself as Dalton's Bond did when discovering he'd been called 'a horse's arse'.

    Not even an, 'That's because you know what I can do with my little finger'.

    The closest thing from humour in Spectre is Bond waving at a goon at the funeral. And the exchanges with M and C at the start, which should have been a chance for humour, instead come across as charmless and bluntly antagonistic.

    Are the screenwriters no longer capable of investing Bond with a sense of wit?

    Desk

    Hahaha incredible.

    I can only assume it's an attempt at satire.

    It has to be.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited November 2015 Posts: 4,423
    patb wrote: »
    Re the ring, my interpretation was not that they shared the ring but tiny fragments of dead skin is transferred when they shook hands? Q placing it on his laptop to trace DNA is clearly bonkers.

    I was thinking about this last night. I couldn't sleep, and luckily I have the week of work, to let my mind peruse these things.

    Q takes the SPECTRE ring, and scans it into his laptop, and somehow his laptop is able to scan for DNA. I assume that Q has got some device that allows the DNA fragments to be converted via some sort of algorithm from the "real DNA" and into "digital DNA". A flimsy bit of pseudo science, I grant you, but there you go.




  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    "Movie science always puzzled conventional minds" to misquote Blofeld. :D
  • TuuliaTuulia
    Posts: 2,081
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Desk wrote: »
    Maybe Craig's Bond is reflective of the actor himself, who isn't exactly known for having the most relaxed, self-effacing, humourous personality - in stark contrast to the likes of Roger Moore.

    Sure, he doesn't make it easy to know him for that, but in real life, he is actually "one of the funniest people on earth,like tears doiwn your cheek funny" O-tone Hugh Jackmann after working with him for months on A Steady Rain. And all, who know him, worked with him will say the same.

    But its surely his doing, that he is certainly not known among he odd moviegoer for being funny.

    But the point is, he is not against being funny. He often has said, you have to earn the gags instead of just putting them in. They have to come natural.

    There is no reason though, why he should cultivate an image of being funny. And I'm not saying that you, GL, mean he should - but Desk kinda implied that would be important... or more likely meant that Craig (the person) isn't funny, because he doesn't have an image of being funny, which is just ridiculous. I think Craig is not particularly image conscious or cares much about that side of things. He clearly is a funny guy, and has a great sense of humor, and can laugh at himself, too - so all well then. Personally I like that about him. (I also give a lot of weight to what people who work with someone say about him.) Whether this or that moviegoer is aware of that side of him is neither here nor there.

    Zekidk wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    John Malkovich should have played Oppie
    He's probably too old now, but Waltz sounds exactly like him, that's for sure.

    Well Waltz is 59, Malkovich is 61 (62 next month), so not much of an age difference there.


    NicNac wrote: »
    cryptic47 wrote: »
    . Further, I would argue that fans should be protective and appreciative of Fleming and his source material, and not this reboot universe that is becoming less and less recognizable.

    Well, I've been a fan of Bond films for many, many years. I can (just) remember Roger Moore taking over the role. The films have been my obsession for all of my life, and I have seen them all more times than I can remember.

    And yet I have read some of Flemings books once, and a handful twice. I can take them or leave them. So where do I fit into your idea of a Bond fan?

    I'm appreciative of the source material and keeping Bond roughly as Fleming wrote him, but audiences today have no idea who Fleming is. So the fact Eon still go back to Fleming whenever they are stuck is surely testament to their high regard for the man. If BB and her family gave up the rights to Bond then who would take over? I will tell you now, it would be someone who wouldn't give two figs about Ian Fleming or his heavily plundered books. Bond films would turn into F&F clones.

    In fact Barbara, by creating CR and everything that has come since has more regard for Fleming than her father did with some of his later films.

    So, just remember that as years go by it's harder to relate the films to the gentleman spy of the 1950s, and Barbara Broccoli does her level best to be respectful to that past. More so than anyone else would, that's for sure.

    Well put.
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Well, I think, its always easy to say in hindsight, how you might have done this or that better. But remember, the guys doing it are no idiots. They do the best they can and its obviously very hard given all that could go wrong. Sometimes I feel, they should have someone, totally from out of the field look over it to give something from a mind, that is not involved in the process for so long. You tend to get lost in your own thoughts and perspectives all to easy.

    Very true.
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    Maybe Craig's Bond doesn't giggle at arse jokes, but any character who gets past armed guards by telling them he is Mickey Mouse is not taking the world all that seriously.

    Pretty self deprecating, considering his ears.

    :P

  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Desk wrote: »
    Just to follow up on my own post earlier - I think at the heart of the problem with Craig's Bond post Casino Royale is a lack of a sense of humour.

    There's no self-deprecating wit, and no witty rejoinders which might make him seem more human and likable. Certainly no laughing at himself as Dalton's Bond did when discovering he'd been called 'a horse's arse'.

    Not even an, 'That's because you know what I can do with my little finger'.

    The closest thing from humour in Spectre is Bond waving at a goon at the funeral. And the exchanges with M and C at the start, which should have been a chance for humour, instead come across as charmless and bluntly antagonistic.

    Are the screenwriters no longer capable of investing Bond with a sense of wit?

    Desk

    Hahaha incredible.

    I personally thought the remark regarding Dame Judi M "You didn't think being dead would stop her doing her job did you?" was up there with some of the best witty lines ever.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Yes, I loved that line, an example of " British Fortitude " :)
  • Scaramanga12Scaramanga12
    Posts: 562
    Good to see some reviewers pointing out the Austin Powers copy. Especially the person pointing out that mi6 is a service dedicated to sorting out Bond's family issues haha.

    What on earth were they thinking?

    It's still a film you can enjoy, but I don't think this film will age well at all.

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Although I think " Cain and Abel" might have beaten Austin Powers by a few
    Thousand years with, that spark of an idea. :D
  • FLeiterFLeiter
    Posts: 315
    Saw it last night in IMAX with a full theatre. Really wanted to like it. Disappointed over all. I'll just bulletpoint impressions.
    * Mexico opening very good. Barrel roll by copter is spectacular. Daniel refuses to unbutton his suit coat in action sequences.
    * The title song is terrible. Very forgettable.
    * Little chemistry or apathy with both ladies. I felt that Monica B. was miscast.
    * Rome car chase was average.
    * Alpine chase with airplane. So, Bond is able to steal a private airplane in a matter of minutes? Come on now, a tad hard to swallow.
    * The train fight scene is great.
    * Blofeld's huge HQ is in the desert and yet hard to discover?
    * You can not hit an airplane, helicopter or rover with a .45 pistol beyond 60 feet with accuracy, let alone when you're both mobile. What happened to the Walther 'smart gun'?
    * Did we need a second consecutive Bond film on shutting down MI6?
    * Ending looked like Daniel was walking off into the sunset(into the night). So, this is how it ends? I know he'll be pushing 50 for Bond 25, but he still can be compelling.

    I realize they're trying to pay homage to previous Bond films: train fight, private clinic high in the snow-capped mountains, etc... but most people under 45 won't get it.

    I'll see it again in a couple of weeks, but Spectre was far less satisfying than Casino Royale.
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    edited November 2015 Posts: 982
    Absolutely love the pre-title scene. I really like that it was done in one take right up till Bond took aim on the rooftop. Movie magic right there. So cool.

    Anyway, while Bond and Madeleine was at that torn down hotel, L'Americain, in Morocco, Bond found a video tape labelled "Vesper Lynd interrogation". Any idea what that could possibly be about? Could it be her interrogation for the password in the other room during that scene in CR when Bond was being tortured by Le Chiffre? I was hoping Bond would pop it into a VCR or something, but its clear that he has since moved on...
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    See your points @FLeiter, but sometimes you have to tell yourself 'this is a Bond film' and picking over things like an HQ in the desert or the accuracy of a handgun, well, every Bond film has these kind of things, and we love them nonetheless.

    Chemistry with the leading ladies..hmm..I was unsure about that, but Lea is so good that it just about works. Monica's 7 minutes in the film render it unimportant.

    The song is personal opinion (I like it).

    Hope you enjoy it second time around - I certainly did.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,602
    I think an increasing issue in future will be that any scenes will have to be 100% new. If not , they will be seen as homages. As the series extents, there can only be so many different variations of scene or stunt and similar scenes become homages pls people look for homages when it could be co-incidence. Do script writers have to avoid situations that are similar to previous movies? its a tough one
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Now that Craig finally has found his definite Bond identity with Spectre it's not that difficult to continue.
    Spectre really puts Skyfall to shame and Bond 25 can easily build on Spectre.
  • FLeiterFLeiter
    Posts: 315
    Thanks @NicNac for the comments. Maybe my comments were jaded by having to pay $16 U.S. and then having to sit thru 7 previews and 4 IMAX spots.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    edited November 2015 Posts: 7,582
    FLeiter wrote: »
    Thanks @NicNac for the comments. Maybe my comments were jaded by having to pay $16 U.S. and then having to sit thru 7 previews and 4 IMAX spots.

    All of that, and then a 2 1/2 hour film - ;)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    What I find incredibly stupid is they show the LandRover spot before Spectre which more or less totally spoils the Austria chase sequence, I'm going to boycott LandRover for life !!
  • TuuliaTuulia
    Posts: 2,081
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I get that because Craig's Bond for the most part centres on his character arc being shaped into a fully formed experienced pro. That includes the hardships and lessons learned that cultivate the man into later being the man most men want to be and Craig achieved that status effortlessly in SP.

    I know it's sot of an accepted line that "men want to be Bond" but I've never understood it myself. I'd rather hope "most men" don't want to be Bond at all.
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Regardless, Bond isn't supposed to be a positive hero. SP alone makes a big deal about him being an assassin. Bond isn't a hero or role model. He's the guy that does the dirty work for his government while abusing alcohol, sleeping with multiple women and many other vices. He's not a conventional nice guy so I don't really see what the problem is. If you're looking for "Captain America", you won't find him in Bond.

    There you go... not a positive hero, not a role model, so why do men want to be him? If indeed they do. At least Craig himself is reasonable enough and wouldn't want to. Even if one ignores the job (guy being an assassin and frequently beaten up, tortured and in danger of getting killed), why would anyone want to be mostly alone, without any meaningful relationships (friends, women, family), no home or normal social life to speak of, drink too much... Why would anyone aspire to that kind of existence?
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited November 2015 Posts: 4,578
    So 12 hours later, and I am more troubled about Spectre's role in things and Blofeld's relationship to Bond. The set of pictures from Bond's past, in the old M I6 building was over-the-top, too heavy-handed. It's bothering me. Making Bond and Blofeld foster brothers is one thing; making Blofeld/Spectre the "author" of Bond's pain is simply too much. EON needed to go with one or the other; not both. Or, better yet: NEITHER. Blofeld is the head of a massive criminal syndicate, with perhaps more power than anyone on earth...and yet, he's someone more interested in mentally screwing with an MI6 agent?

    But for me, here's the bad thing: This can't be undone, folks. EON made a tactical decision to tie Blofeld to Bond, to tie Spectre to everything that happened in the previous three films...and, I hate to say it, I think it taints everything.

    Something else that troubled me: after all the men Bond tracked down and confronted and, in some cases, killed...Sciarra was the first one who had the ring on? Really?

    I'd really like to know what Babs, Michael, Daniel, and Sam were thinking.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    For me there is only one trait of Bond's personality to copy, and that is his self confidence and sense of self. (Although I wouldn't mind his dress sense, good food and car tbh!)
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    Now that Craig finally has found his definite Bond identity with Spectre it's not that difficult to continue.
    Spectre really puts Skyfall to shame and Bond 25 can easily build on Spectre.

    Very much agree.
  • Scaramanga12Scaramanga12
    edited November 2015 Posts: 562
    TripAces wrote: »
    So 12 hours later, and I am more troubled about Spectre's role in things and Blofeld's relationship to Bond. The set of pictures from Bond's past, in the old M I6 building was over-the-top, too heavy-handed. It's bothering me. Making Bond and Blofeld foster brothers is one thing; making Blofeld the "author" of Bond's pain is simply too much. EON needed to go with one or the other; not both. Or, better yet: NEITHER.

    But for me, here's the bad thing: This can't be undone, folks. EON made a tactical decision to tie Blofeld to Bond, to tie Spectre to everything that happened in the previous three films...and, I hate to say it, I think it taints everything.

    Something else that troubled me: after all the men Bond tracked down and confronted and, in some cases, killed...Sciarra was the first one who had the ring on? Really?

    I'd really like to know what Babs, Michael, Daniel, and Sam were thinking.

    I agree with all of this.


  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    royale65 wrote: »
    For me there is only one trait of Bond's personality to copy, and that is his self confidence and sense of self. (Although I wouldn't mind his dress sense, good food and car tbh!)

    I think his sense of duty is to be admired, he clearly loves his country.
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