Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    echo wrote: »
    I love Dalton's chemistry with d'Abo; it feels real and romantic for the first time since, well, Tracy. Plus, there is a bit of Bond manipulating an innocent that works and gives him a bit of a harder edge.

    Same here. Bond girls have tried to be strong and worldwide since the film inception, but there's an innocence about Kara that's been missing since well…Ursula's child-like half. Agree that next to Bond and Tracy, Bond and Kara is the best of the relationships.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 1,263
    Same here. Bond girls have tried to be strong and worldwide since the film inception, but there's an innocence about Kara that's been missing since well…Ursula's child-like half. Agree that next to Bond and Tracy, Bond and Kara is the best of the relationships.
    I could be wrong, but I think the two pairs are leagues apart. Tracy is every bit Bond's match. They ground each other to create new personal qualities in each of them. Kara is mostly a convenience for Bond, who he uses to gain information in his mission. The relationship only blossoms after Koskov's motives are revealed in full to both characters. Hence, the convenience and superficiality I see in the relationship, since the best on-screen chemistry they have is when she is still trying to reunite with Koskov.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    edited August 2015 Posts: 538
    Strong take. I like it. By comparison, Bond and Tracy are equals. Intially, Bond may have been just doing a favor, but the relationship turned quickly in to something more. Whereas Bond and Kara are mutually exploitative in a different sense like you said, Bond for information and Kara for Koskov. But since it takes the whole movie (nearly) for Koskov to be exposed, Bond and Kara's best scenes are almost necessarily before that point. There's still good moments afterwards (namely the "fight" in the Mujahadeen camp).
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 1,263
    Strong take. I like it. By comparison, Bond and Tracy are equals, whereas Bond and Kara are mutually exploitative in a different sense like you said, Bond for information and Kara for Koskov.
    This is why I see Bond taking more advantage of the relationship, as she proves to be a good means to an end. Dalton is so good at selling those moments too, like at the amusement park after Necros attacks. Once Kara sees the true colors of Koskov, Bond becomes something of a rebound guy and her demeanor becomes very bland. She is so much better with him in the first half, but it's awkward for me to imagine them as being something more due to her desires at that point in time.

    Edit: This reminds me of a "creditor" form of relationship, which is generally an unfavorable condition. They are good for the story, but not much else. Perhaps if she delved more into her character at that point and what Bond meant to her they would have a more genuine connection throughout.

    As critical as I may sound, I have this film ranked regularly between 6-10. It is a few steps short of a classic and this is one of those steps for me.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 23,883
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Roger Moore's relationships as Bond were mostly flirtatious
    Clarification.jpg

    Well I didn't realize this was such a "controversial' opinion, but perhaps it is.

    Much as I love Moore (and I do) and his films (and they are among my favourites), I don't go to a Moore film for depth in female relationships. They are generally flirtatious and trivial in my mind. The same with Connery.

    Only in FYEO (perhaps due to the relative seriousness of that film) and OP (due to the relative similarities in age between him and the titular character) did I note a more thoughtful connection.

    With the Dalton films, I think they tried to provide some gravitas to the relationships (perhaps in a post-Aids era) but for me too it came across as somewhat exploitative and forced, and fell flat (D'abo's acting in TLD in this regard didn't work for me as mentioned earlier although she was a decent character). In the case of Lowell's character in LTK, it just seemed uninspired. I think only in OHMSS and then again in CR was that same level one on one properly established, intentionally - and interestingly, both from the novel.
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,189
    Hmm I don't know, I'm sure that encounter with George Best's girlfriend at the start of AVTAK was deep and meaningful ;)

    As for Dalton and Kara's relationship, it's nice but I can't say it's on the same level as Tracey and Bond or Vesper and Bond in terms of chemistry. Sometimes it feels a little too soppy and I've always had a problem with Dalton's awkward grin in the horse carriage.
  • "However, I'll always prefer Young over Hamilton"
    Me too.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I like the Bond-Kara relationship up until she starts hitting him with a pillow and he starts spouting out compliments in Afghan.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    I like the Bond-Kara relationship up until she starts hitting him with a pillow and he starts spouting out compliments in Afghan.

    But…but…that's the best part. :((
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,924
    They have the rights to use Blofeld for the first time in eons, and 'Wheelchair Villain' got dropped in more ways than one. Now all that's left to do is get a hold of NSNA and make it canon. Never say never.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    QBranch wrote: »
    They have the rights to use Blofeld for the first time in eons, and 'Wheelchair Villain' got dropped in more ways than one. Now all that's left to do is get a hold of NSNA and make it canon. Never say never.

    No thanks. It's a turd.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,924
    Despite the history behind NSNA, it's not as bad a film as people make it out to be. I'd rather watch it over DAF any day of the week- not that I hate DAF.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    QBranch wrote: »
    Despite the history behind NSNA, it's not as bad a film as people make it out to be. I'd rather watch it over DAF any day of the week- not that I hate DAF.

    It's just not a Bond film and it lacks the inherent quality of an EON production.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I've said this before but I remember hating NSNA when I first saw it. It just felt so amateurish in comparison to the official films.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I would much prefer it if it had a more Bondian score. Some of the film is not that bad but the score is a complete shambles and inappropriate for a Bond film. That is an area they should have given more attention, given the competition still had Barry at that point.

    Moreover, they should have known that it would always be compared to TB, and so should have ensured that the cast was superior. I don't know what others think, but from my perspective Basinger was not up to Auger's standards. The same applies to others in the film.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Legitimising NSNA would be tantamount to p*ssing on Cubby's grave.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    I would much prefer it if it had a more Bondian score. Some of the film is not that bad but the score is a complete shambles and inappropriate for a Bond film. That is an area they should have given more attention, given the competition still had Barry at that point.

    Moreover, they should have known that it would always be compared to TB, and so should have ensured that the cast was superior. I don't know what others think, but from my perspective Basinger was not up to Auger's standards. The same applies to others in the film.

    The fact they thought they could step in and compete with twenty years of iconography is fittingly delusional given it's a McClory production. All the ingredients were firmly in place by 83. You can play with those ingredients, but if you're forced to throw them all in the bin, what's the point?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,924
    Legitimising NSNA would be tantamount to p*ssing on Cubby's grave.
    Well if the film was really that much of a dis, we can't have that- I wouldn't want that. Nonetheless, I won't dismiss the film entirely- I'll still slot it in after OP come Bondathon time.

    I agree it is quite lacking in the action department, and doesn't have that dynamic factor that constitutes a Bond film. At times it feels more like a telemovie. I do however, like how it's tailored to Connery's age, recognizing Bond as a seasoned agent flirting with the notion of retirement, unlike AVTAK- which, other than Zorin's younger villain, seemed to try hiding the fact Moore was hitting 60. That was a large part of AVTAK's weakness IMO. Perhaps Eon, too, could've played around more with the concept of Bond getting older. Anyway, NSNA has a great femme fatale; Largo is decent enough- but he could've had a bit more life in him, I guess- a bit more of that spark that makes a memorable villain. Basinger's Domino was completely forgettable. I enjoy the understated main theme and its liet motifs sprinkled throughout.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    NSNA is far from being the "worst" Bond movie.

    In my ranking it is certainly above DAF and QOS.

    And in retrospect, not having the typical Bond elements in the movie isn't a problem.
    I even dare to say it is much more Bond than QOS which is not Bond at all.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I recently (last week) wrote a fairly in depth review of NSNA on the Bondathon thread if anyone is interested.

    Hey, thanks of reminding us. I've read it but I will again and I wish I was as good with words as you when doing reviews. And I'm not buttering you up here, I mean it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,976
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I've said this before but I remember hating NSNA when I first saw it. It just felt so amateurish in comparison to the official films.

    Sean Connery in shorts. Enough said.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    I even dare to say it is much more Bond than QOS which is not Bond at all.
    I quite like you sir, so I will let that comment slide.


    ;)
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    NSNA is far from being the "worst" Bond movie.

    In my ranking it is certainly above DAF and QOS.

    And in retrospect, not having the typical Bond elements in the movie isn't a problem.
    I even dare to say it is much more Bond than QOS which is not Bond at all.

    I disagree. Even DAF and QOS are waaaaaay better than NSNA (in my opinion, of course).
  • Posts: 3
    Apart from Largo, Domino, and the SPECTRE meeting, Thunderball is terrible and has nothing going for it. Whenever I see the final underwater sequence, I'm reminded of a line from Mystery Science Theater 3000: "if you film scuba diving in slow motion, you could actually go back in time."

    If nothing else, AVTAK at least works as a perfect time capsule for its time and place. Duran Duran coupled with Grace Jones makes this film more '80s than '80s. Whether this is a good or bad thing depends on your tolerance for such matters.

    If it weren't a "James Bond" film and saddled with expectations of the franchise, Moonraker would be considered an above-average science fiction film.

    The theme songs to LTK and TWINE are massively underrated.

    The magical realist touches in LALD get a bad rap. The seeming resurrection of Baron Samedi is one of the least implausible things in the franchise.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    Agree with Point 2. Somewhere Bond had to do the 80s (though I did find the Bill Conti music in FYEO a great start).
  • Posts: 232
    There are a few patches in SPY that I'd keep, but basically I consider it a schizophrenic Matt Helm movie that forgets itself when Moore pumps four bullets into Stromberg. It's like getting the CR torture chair scene in
    Legitimising NSNA would be tantamount to p*ssing on Cubby's grave.

    So what is the downside here?

    A guy who kept McClory from exercising his rightful legal option for years just keeps getting more and more good press, even after he shuffles off? He gets no pass from me, and that goes back to when I was 20 and it was announced he was getting the Thalberg; I kicked a hole in a board I was so pissed.



  • Posts: 3
    Agree with Point 2. Somewhere Bond had to do the 80s (though I did find the Bill Conti music in FYEO a great start).

    Yeah, every decade it seems is destined to have a Bond film that perfectly encapsulates all that is good and terrible about the decade in question, and that fully embraces the excesses of the current decade.

  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited August 2015 Posts: 3,157
    trevanian wrote: »
    There are a few patches in SPY that I'd keep, but basically I consider it a schizophrenic Matt Helm movie that forgets itself when Moore pumps four bullets into Stromberg. It's like getting the CR torture chair scene in
    Legitimising NSNA would be tantamount to p*ssing on Cubby's grave.

    So what is the downside here?

    A guy who kept McClory from exercising his rightful legal option for years just keeps getting more and more good press, even after he shuffles off? He gets no pass from me, and that goes back to when I was 20 and it was announced he was getting the Thalberg; I kicked a hole in a board I was so pissed.

    I refuse to believe that McClory was the real author of Thunderball and Blofeld, and the fact he ripped off Blofeld's cat from EON's movies proves it.
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,189
    Robert Davi is who largely elevates LTK. NOT Dalton.

    Notable mentions too to Del-Toro and Robert Brown who both upstage him.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Robert Davi is who largely elevates LTK. NOT Dalton.
    I agree.
    License+To+Kill+Robert+Davi.png
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