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The Amazing Spider-rant (WARNING: huge NASTY spoilers for AS 2 in this)

chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
edited May 2014 in General Movies & TV Posts: 17,691
Background: I was reading The Amazing Spider-man comics before most people on this site were born.
Marvel Comics was a beehive of creativity and daring in the 60's & 70's, but the single biggest mistake they ever made IMO was killing Peter Parker's girlfriend Gwen Stacy simply because they felt they had nowhere else to take the relationship besides marriage. It killed my interest in Spider-man for years, and even today only the 'Romita years' comics are the ones I've kept. Sam Raimi must have felt similarly, and omitted Gwen from his timeline as a girlfriend at all, and moved straight on to Mary Jane, good move I thought. But he made webs come directly & organically from Peter's wrists and forsook the web-shooters. Not cool. He cast Toby Maguire, who did a good job overall, but couldn't they CGI his eyes brown & let him be less the victim-type ? And Kirsten Dunst was a total miscast, period. Then they made Dock Ock an unintentional bad guy. Not cool. Then came Andrew Garfield. Better physically, but geeze, what's with the high hair & punk 'tude? And the retconned family history? Oh, they needed something NEW. Okay. They brought in Gwen, but again a total miscast IMO. Like Kirsten, workable, but why not go for the Gold? Okay, then they kill Gwen, but NOT precisely like in the comic. Holy crap, if you're gonna potentially turn people off to a franchise, can't you at least be more respectful to the painful source material? But then, people seem to like 'dark' these days...
Bottom line: There has never been a remotely perfect Spider-man movie made.
But in fairness, Spider-man in the comics (as a ground-breaking & important character) basically burned out after about a decade & a half...
Perestroika time: I can enjoy some of the movies on their own terms.
I like Spider-man, many aspects of Spider-man 2, Spider-man 3, and even The Amazing Spider-man to some degree, but AS2 will be a rental. I just knew they'd off Gwen, and I also knew it'd be completely different. And what up for the next movie? A DAF-style treatment, I see it now. Oh, Gwen tears for 10 minutes, then "Hi Tiger" will fix all that... At least in the comics they could spend some real time on his grief. Not that that was fun.
In the end...
Spider-man 3 is my favourite Spidey film. There. I said it. If you're going to make a film that messes with the established comic book cannon, at least pack it with action overload, which #3 delivers in spades.

Let the pumpkin bombs fly! :))

Comments

  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I read the whole f*cking thing, and all I got was this lousy revelation that somebody on this planet likes Spider-Man 3?!?!

    I want your money back.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,270
    I like Spider-Man 3 alright. It's my least favorite of the trilogy, but I still don't mind it. Haven't seen the 'Amazing Spider-Man' films yet, and don't really want to, but I did enjoy the old trilogy, and 3 is not as bad as most people say.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,691
    Agent007391 wrote:
    I read the whole f*cking thing, and all I got was this lousy revelation that somebody on this planet likes Spider-Man 3?!?!
    Ha ha, that's ALL you got?
    @Agent007391, I have it on good authority that I'm not the ONLY one that likes SM3, there's like, more fans of it than I can count on my right hand!!!
  • timmertimmer
    edited May 2014 Posts: 4,622
    I like all five Spidey films. I only read the comics randomly as a kid, but I really liked the animated TV show with that super cool theme song. Batman and Spidey were my two favourite comic book heroes growing up, but again I only randomly read the comics when I felt the urge to buy, so I defer to @chrisisall as to how the comic origins should have been best represented.
    I did not like the casting of Dunst at all. Mary Jane always had black hair, at least in the books I read, and she was real hot, not girl-next-doorish like Dunst. I thought Parker had the best GF on the planet.
    I did like Emma as Gwen, but I don't know what Gwen was supposed to be like anyway, so I just rolled with it. I actually had no idea she was doomed a la Tracy di Vincenzo.
    Ignorance is bliss.
    I am now really looking forward to the casting of the gorgeous MJ though. I'd like a jet black dark-haired young beauty, just like I remember from the books.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,834
    Wasn't MJ a redhead in the comics?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,691
    Ludovico wrote:
    Wasn't MJ a redhead in the comics?
    Yeah, that she was.

    Continuing with my rant- I figured out why the suits demanded Venom be added to Spidey 3!
    In the first, Norman was not the nicest dude, but his evil was not intentionally embraced, it more or less accidental.
    In the second, Octavius was good, it was the evil AI of the arms that made him :Doc Ock.'
    In the third, Flint Marko and Harry were both well-meaning peeps caught up in desperation/mental issues and did not mean to be evil.

    See a pattern here? I can't really fault the suits for wanting to add in a full-on evil character for ONCE. Heck, Doc Ock was a full-on evil character in the comics, that was the worst thing about Spidey 2 for me...
  • timmertimmer
    edited May 2014 Posts: 4,622
    Was she a redhead? Very well. Whatever, she's awesome!
    Must have mixed her up with my other favourite comic-book girl, Veronica, from the Archie books. Now, she had jet-black hair.
    Amore!
    Married-Spider-Man.jpg
    Hopefully they put this scene off for several films. Mary Jane Watson as recurring super-hot gf, would really spice this movie series up.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    Agent007391 wrote:
    I read the whole f*cking thing, and all I got was this lousy revelation that somebody on this planet likes Spider-Man 3?!?!

    I want your money back.

    I read the "background" portion and then skipped to "in the end..." Glad I did because my reaction would've been the same as yours. :))

    IMO, Spider-Man 3 is a terrible film but as a long time Spidey fan I still find it enjoyable at times; the first Spider-Man is also a 'meh' movie. The original Spider-Man trilogy just doesn't feel like it was true to the Spidey character. The new movies, while not exactly like the comics, portray Spidey the way he should be.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    I just read your whole freakin' post and all I got out of it is that you like the web-shooters!

    JK :))
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,834
    chrisisall wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Wasn't MJ a redhead in the comics?
    Yeah, that she was.

    Continuing with my rant- I figured out why the suits demanded Venom be added to Spidey 3!
    In the first, Norman was not the nicest dude, but his evil was not intentionally embraced, it more or less accidental.
    In the second, Octavius was good, it was the evil AI of the arms that made him :Doc Ock.'
    In the third, Flint Marko and Harry were both well-meaning peeps caught up in desperation/mental issues and did not mean to be evil.

    See a pattern here? I can't really fault the suits for wanting to add in a full-on evil character for ONCE. Heck, Doc Ock was a full-on evil character in the comics, that was the worst thing about Spidey 2 for me...

    I am no expert, but in the comics wasn't Doc Ock's madness caused by the explosion that both fused his tentacles to his body and caused brain damage? It is debatable whether he was always evil. I did enjoy the first and second Spider-Man and found their respective villains deliciously ambiguous: we do not know if the Goblin formula merely triggered the evil that was dormant in Norman Osborne. Overall Otto Octavius appears good at first, but he has the hubris of a mad scientist. When his experiment goes awry, he wants to carry on, risking even his wife's life.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,552
    This is why I'm an X-Men fan. ;-)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,691
    DarthDimi wrote:
    This is why I'm an X-Men fan. ;-)
    The X-men movies are the cat's whiskers. I got not problems at all with them. Been a fan since the Byrne/Claremont comics days, and they made big changes, but most have worked IMO.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,350
    Sorry guys:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2553/the-amazing-spiderman
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,691
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Sorry guys:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2553/the-amazing-spiderman
    That 's a thread specific to the NEW Spider-man movie(s); this is a comprehensive critique of Spider-man's depiction in his VARIOUS incarnations.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited May 2014 Posts: 13,350
    Fair enough but someone else may decide one Spider-man thread is plenty.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,691
    timmer wrote:
    Married-Spider-Man.jpg
    @timmer, see this picture you posted? THIS IS Spider-man. THIS IS his costume. Both Raimi's AND Webb's films messed with it just a little too much. To date, the Reeve Superman movies & the Iron Man flicks (& related appearances) are the ONLY movies that got the hero's costume & general appearance 100% accurate.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Fair enough but someone else may decide one Spider-man thread is plenty.

    This is the spoiler thread for those who have read the 70s comics. Let it stay open, please. I enjoy it.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Does anyone else think Danny Elfman was born to score Spider-Man films?
  • YouHaveAnOddJobYouHaveAnOddJob
    Posts: 136
    RC7 wrote:
    Does anyone else think Danny Elfman was born to score Spider-Man films?

    Danny Elfman was born to score movies.....period.
  • timmertimmer
    Posts: 4,622
    chrisisall wrote:
    @timmer, see this picture you posted? THIS IS Spider-man. THIS IS his costume. Both Raimi's AND Webb's films messed with it just a little too much. To date, the Reeve Superman movies & the Iron Man flicks (& related appearances) are the ONLY movies that got the hero's costume & general appearance 100% accurate.
    I don't mind the new Spidey costumes from the 5 movies but replicating the classic comic book look would have been better I think. That's also the look from the animated tv show which featured that awesome song, which is quite well known in the general populace I think.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited May 2014 Posts: 17,691
    timmer wrote:
    replicating the classic comic book look would have been better I think.
    Plus, Parker made it himself. I should have the simple nature of something hand-made.
    But in the end, Raimi's three & Webb's second are serviceable for me.
  • timmertimmer
    Posts: 4,622
    I hope they replicate the MJ look. Go full out vavoom. Kirsten Dunst look-a-likes need not apply. I'm thinking more like Megan Fox lookalikes need apply. Maxim cover girls please. MJ is the hottest chick in comics, so lets cast accordingly. :P
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    The organic webbing in the Raimi trilogy had to do with the believability of a high school student making a wonder-adhesive. I understand it, even if I don't agree with it.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    timmer wrote:
    I'm thinking more like Megan Fox lookalikes need apply.
    Actually, a red-headed Megan Fox would be quite perfect, minus a few years. Good call, @timmer!
  • AlexanderWaverlyAlexanderWaverly
    edited May 2014 Posts: 2,115
    timmer wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    @timmer, see this picture you posted? THIS IS Spider-man. THIS IS his costume. Both Raimi's AND Webb's films messed with it just a little too much. To date, the Reeve Superman movies & the Iron Man flicks (& related appearances) are the ONLY movies that got the hero's costume & general appearance 100% accurate.
    I don't mind the new Spidey costumes from the 5 movies but replicating the classic comic book look would have been better I think. That's also the look from the animated tv show which featured that awesome song, which is quite well known in the general populace I think.

    A couple of notes:

    In the main titles of the 1967 Spider-Man cartoon, they actually used a Steve Ditko drawing from the cover The Amazing Spider-Man, vol. 1, No. 19. at the 0:22-23 (and 20:38 mark of the end titles)
    mark of this:



  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Ralph Bakshi took the show to crazy places.
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    At least Spidey 3 ended better (Peter and MJ somberly dancing together) than ASM 2.
    Gwen Stacey isn't even cold in the ground and Spiderman says something like "It's good to be back," as he starts to fight the lamest villain in the series. That just totally ruined any momentum built up by Stacey's death, and consequently was the nail in the coffin for how inept that film was.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    SJK91 wrote:
    At least Spidey 3 ended better

    I'm forced to agree here, a lot.
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