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Bond 24: Moonraker?

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  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    echo wrote:
    Drax and Brand are great characters, and I'd love to see them use Dover as a location. Drax's speeches, while they would need to be updated, are wonderful. (Drax's "spend the money quickly" has already made the screen in OP.)

    The villain's plot has already been largely mined by MR, GE, and DAD. Reprogramming a missile to hit the sub was done in TSWLM. The Bond girl who gets away was used in QoS.

    Also, there are unadaptable elements in the MR novel.

    One is the bridge game. It works beautifully on the page but Bond's "stacking the deck" trick won't play the same onscreen (too underhanded), nor will his benzedrine use (dated). Plus, they dumped baccarat in the film version of CR, and since bridge is seen as an "old person's game," I really don't think we're going to see high-stakes bridge.

    Another is the blowtorch/lighter escape. It comes across as improbable in the novel and would probably be even moreso on screen. The later scene when Drax's men try to flush them out with fire could work, but since fire was a huge element of the QoS ending, I kind of doubt it will be used again anytime soon. And as others have stated,
    if Skyfall is largely set in England, I doubt they'd do the same with Bond 24.

    The more I think about it, the last third of QoS owes a huge debt to MR.

    In a sense, MR has been adapted for the screen over and over, just piecemeal and in disguised form.

    It just occured to me today that Gustav Graves is a very poorly disguised Hugo Drax from the novel. I hadn't even twigged that the sword fight is at Blades - it would have been much cooler if Bomd had caught Graves cheating at cards. The fencing is ridiculous.


    Yeah but who's interested in a Bond film featuring a lengthy card game? ;)
  • myworldisenoughmyworldisenough
    edited March 2013 Posts: 1,143
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    echo wrote:
    Drax and Brand are great characters, and I'd love to see them use Dover as a location. Drax's speeches, while they would need to be updated, are wonderful. (Drax's "spend the money quickly" has already made the screen in OP.)

    The villain's plot has already been largely mined by MR, GE, and DAD. Reprogramming a missile to hit the sub was done in TSWLM. The Bond girl who gets away was used in QoS.

    Also, there are unadaptable elements in the MR novel.

    One is the bridge game. It works beautifully on the page but Bond's "stacking the deck" trick won't play the same onscreen (too underhanded), nor will his benzedrine use (dated). Plus, they dumped baccarat in the film version of CR, and since bridge is seen as an "old person's game," I really don't think we're going to see high-stakes bridge.

    Another is the blowtorch/lighter escape. It comes across as improbable in the novel and would probably be even moreso on screen. The later scene when Drax's men try to flush them out with fire could work, but since fire was a huge element of the QoS ending, I kind of doubt it will be used again anytime soon. And as others have stated,
    if Skyfall is largely set in England, I doubt they'd do the same with Bond 24.

    The more I think about it, the last third of QoS owes a huge debt to MR.

    In a sense, MR has been adapted for the screen over and over, just piecemeal and in disguised form.

    It just occured to me today that Gustav Graves is a very poorly disguised Hugo Drax from the novel. I hadn't even twigged that the sword fight is at Blades - it would have been much cooler if Bomd had caught Graves cheating at cards. The fencing is ridiculous.


    Yeah but who's interested in a Bond film featuring a lengthy card game? ;)

    Aha... Casino Royale perhaps?
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Having read MR recently it did not leap out to me as particularly well suited to the screen. Parts work and that is why it has only been adapted piecemeal. Overall I don't think it would work as a film. Gala Brand is a great character though.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    I think the main problem with MR is that so many bits of it have been adapted or have inspired the movies already: villain's name once, villain's origins (GE, DAD, SF, on the top of my head), the scheme, even some lines ("spend them quickly" in OP, I think). There is a fair deal left: Gala Brand, the game of canasta, Krebs, but only parts. All the same, the parts left, especially Gala Brand and to a lesser extend Krebs, I would love to see.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote:
    the game of canasta

    Err thats GF. To paraphrase Fleming in CR - ' The game is Bridge.'

    Theres nothing really left in the book apart from the dinner at Blades and the bridge game (which really could be an epic scene with DC, Fiennes, Christoph Waltz as Drax and say someone like Toby Jones as Meyer and Stephen Fry as Basildon? I'm drooling at the thought to be honest) that hasnt been done in some way before.

    The ending is still one of the best with Bond as 'the man is just a silhouette' but I think Dan is due the girl a the end of at least one of his films and the trouble with the silhouette ending is it has Bond just trudging off with his hands in his pockets which is a bit of a downer for the audience. Even if they throw in the GB at the end again it would seem even more poorly tagged on than QOS and SF.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited March 2013 Posts: 13,350
    Don't forget the great action scene beside the cliffs.
  • ultraboxultrabox
    Posts: 194
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Sir_Miles_Messervy wrote:
    The majority of the book was unused apart from the name of the villain, Hugo Drax. It would be an adaption of the novel not of the film. The only thing the movie would share with the 79' version would be the name of the villain and the title.

    My only concern is Joe public may not like two films back-to-back with a lot of the UK in. At least, this one is not bound to London as much as Skyfall will be, within the UK.

    Personally I would love the idea of back to back UK's. QoS left the US as ambiguous, at best. Having another UK Bond to further distance Bond from the US could set up 007 in New York fairly nicely.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    the game of canasta

    Err thats GF. To paraphrase Fleming in CR - ' The game is Bridge.'

    Theres nothing really left in the book apart from the dinner at Blades and the bridge game (which really could be an epic scene with DC, Fiennes, Christoph Waltz as Drax and say someone like Toby Jones as Meyer and Stephen Fry as Basildon? I'm drooling at the thought to be honest) that hasnt been done in some way before.

    The ending is still one of the best with Bond as 'the man is just a silhouette' but I think Dan is due the girl a the end of at least one of his films and the trouble with the silhouette ending is it has Bond just trudging off with his hands in his pockets which is a bit of a downer for the audience. Even if they throw in the GB at the end again it would seem even more poorly tagged on than QOS and SF.

    My mistake about the bridge. Of course canasta was in GF, how could i mix the two? That is how much I know about card games.

    I agree about the ending: it needs to happen (and Gala Brand needs to be a Bond girl) but not now.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    the game of canasta

    Err thats GF. To paraphrase Fleming in CR - ' The game is Bridge.'

    Theres nothing really left in the book apart from the dinner at Blades and the bridge game (which really could be an epic scene with DC, Fiennes, Christoph Waltz as Drax and say someone like Toby Jones as Meyer and Stephen Fry as Basildon? I'm drooling at the thought to be honest) that hasnt been done in some way before.

    The ending is still one of the best with Bond as 'the man is just a silhouette' but I think Dan is due the girl a the end of at least one of his films and the trouble with the silhouette ending is it has Bond just trudging off with his hands in his pockets which is a bit of a downer for the audience. Even if they throw in the GB at the end again it would seem even more poorly tagged on than QOS and SF.

    I very much agree with this. Craig deserves a happy ending--perhaps in his last film? I see MR, albeit much updated, as perfect for the Bond actor after Craig. There are scenes that could readily be adapted, such as the blowtorch ones.
  • 00Ed00Ed
    Posts: 140
    Although it would be interesting in an ironic kind of way if D-Craig turned out to be the only Bond who never got an unambiguously happy ending. Bond 24 could end with the "just a silhouette" ending from Moonraker and Bond 25 could end with the You Only Live Twice disappearance. Then Bond 26 would pick up with a different actor playing the amnesiac Bond from The Man With the Golden Gun. The Craig era would forever be remembered as a bit nihilistic.

    I'm not saying that I'm in favor of such an approach (ultimately I'm not), but it's amusing to imagine.
  • connerybondconnerybond
    Posts: 163
    Moonraker was one of the bunch of novels I read as a university student in 1958-this included Dr No and from Russia with Love. Liked the fact that the novel had locations in England. The '79 film was bad, very bad, and agree that EON going to Fleming's source should use the Moonraker story without changes.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    I would love to see Moonraker re-booted. It would be a good companion film to Casino Royale with the Blades sequence.

    It would be nice to see some more of England (apart from London) and the interplay with M, especially with Ralph Fiennes as the new M, would be a real treat.

    Fassbender would be great also as Bond in this source material.

    I have no faith in EON though to remain faithful to the source material. The public wants action and not card sequences. Real shame.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    the game of canasta

    Err thats GF. To paraphrase Fleming in CR - ' The game is Bridge.'

    Theres nothing really left in the book apart from the dinner at Blades and the bridge game (which really could be an epic scene with DC, Fiennes, Christoph Waltz as Drax and say someone like Toby Jones as Meyer and Stephen Fry as Basildon? I'm drooling at the thought to be honest) that hasnt been done in some way before.

    The ending is still one of the best with Bond as 'the man is just a silhouette' but I think Dan is due the girl a the end of at least one of his films and the trouble with the silhouette ending is it has Bond just trudging off with his hands in his pockets which is a bit of a downer for the audience. Even if they throw in the GB at the end again it would seem even more poorly tagged on than QOS and SF.

    That's inspired casting @TheWizardOflce

    Fry needs to be in Bond movie. Waltz as Drax or Waltz as any villain must be done.

    What about Damian Lewis as Drax? Maybe Charles Dance (who played Fleming in the Don Boyd biopic btw) but he might be too old. Great actor though.

  • hullcityfanhullcityfan Banned
    Posts: 496
    Sir_Miles_Messervy wrote:
    Moonraker is easily one of Fleming's best Bond novels imo and is such a shame that the 79' version didn't live up to the book. It was far too comical (The Venice scene and Jaws falling in love) most of the novel was overlooked which is a shame because it's one of the strongest Bond storys out there atm.

    A faithful adaption for Craig's next Bond film and it would also be a perfect excuse to get a new M (Who should be male) and the Blade's sequence would be a great place to show the chemistry between Bond and M (just like in the book)

    Things could be added that wasn't in the book, like Felix Leiter, who wasn't in the book for obvious reasons. And could feature Quantum who could be funding Hugo Drax's missile project.

    All in all i think it would make a great Bond film and would be great for Craig's 4th Bond film. It would be nice to hear some opinions on this :)

    I agree but they should change the title and villains.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    And I don't think it can work for Bond 24, because a lot of the elements of MR have been used indirectly for Skyfall (and also in previous movies: GE, DAD among others) and because it would mean Bond being without a Bond girl at the end for a fourth consecutive movie. For Bond 25 or maybe later, say 26, that would be nice though, making the necessary changes in names and modernizing the story.
  • Sir_James_MoloneySir_James_Moloney
    Posts: 388
    007InVT wrote:
    That's inspired casting @TheWizardOflce

    Fry needs to be in Bond movie. Waltz as Drax or Waltz as any villain must be done

    I love the idea of Christoph Waltz and Toby Jones but I have a real problem with Stephen Fry. The man is such a pervasive personality that it always takes me out of whatever I'm watching when he turns up, "oh, look, it's Stephen Fry." Probably just me though.

    I've just reread Fleming's GF and Toby Jones would be a dead ringer for Fleming's version of Goldfinger.
  • AgentJM7AgentJM7
    Posts: 421
    I'm not against Stephen Fry showing up in a Bond film, but I do think it'd have to be a Branson-esque cameo, or similar to Judi Dench's appearance in the Pirates of the Caribbean...
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Well Basildon is a pretty small role so it wouldnt be that devastating for Fry haters.

    On reflection I think Jones is too big a name these days to play a fairly nothing character like Meyer. He certainly has the chops for the main villain though and would be superb as Le Chiffre as written by Fleming.

    Its all just a pipe dream though as the bridge scene is one we are never going to get on film as its far too complicated and 'posh' for the popcorn chomping proles to sit through. Even counting to 9 was too much for them in CR so we had to have it switched to poker.

    Maybe one day when they finally get round to adapting the novels for TV as written a la the Jeremy Brett Holmes stories but I am coming to think that this wont be in my lifetime.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    jasonbourne wrote:
    In that case thay should change the name to something else than Moonraker and the name of Hugo Drax to something else to avoid confusion with Moonraker-1979.
    QED.

  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Well Basildon is a pretty small role so it wouldnt be that devastating for Fry haters.

    On reflection I think Jones is too big a name these days to play a fairly nothing character like Meyer. He certainly has the chops for the main villain though and would be superb as Le Chiffre as written by Fleming.

    Its all just a pipe dream though as the bridge scene is one we are never going to get on film as its far too complicated and 'posh' for the popcorn chomping proles to sit through. Even counting to 9 was too much for them in CR so we had to have it switched to poker.

    Maybe one day when they finally get round to adapting the novels for TV as written a la the Jeremy Brett Holmes stories but I am coming to think that this wont be in my lifetime.

    Yes, a pipe dream it would seem.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited May 2013 Posts: 23,544
    Stephen Fry in a Bond film would be a brilliant choice! I always saw him fit for M but, I confess, Fiennes tops this little fantasy, so that thought is frozen in oblivion. However, I'm confident there's a lot that Fry can still do in the Bond films. I remember seeing him play a more or less serious part in V for Vendetta and loving every second of his performance. Both he and Hugh Laurie (let it be obvious why I think of both men in the same sentence) could make great edition to the Bond pantheon of actors. I'm even sure there are characters in the Moonraker novel, like Ronnie Valance, that one of these could play.

  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    Yes, I think Fry should get some credit since he can play more understated parts, he's no dummy and has reverence for the material.

    Valance? Nice idea.
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