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Messi is not quite in that company yet but hes not far off and hes certainly at the top of the 2nd tier of greats such as Puskas, Bergkamp, Dalglish, Baggio, Ronaldo (proper Ronaldo I mean not the diving Portugeuse tosser).
Having said that, though, he wasn't actually the top scorer that tournament, I believe. If I remember correctly, a certain Hristo Stoichkov of Bulgaria - a quite brilliant player - claimed that honour... along with a Russian striker (called Salenko?), but then that chap scored five in one group match against The Vatican, or someone like that... ;)
Messi fits into the creating chances for all model but as of yet I havent seen him drag a shit team to trophies on his own like all the other big names did. Once hes deprived of Iniesta and Xavi with Argentina he doesnt look half as good so still big question marks for me about whether he can join the top tier.
For all his plaudits and trophies we're yet to see Messi do something like the legendary Stoichkov in 94 where almost by force of personality he nearly dragged a team of cloggers to the world cup final. Unluckily for him he hit a similar talent in Baggio who was surrounded by better players otherwise who knows if Italy couldve stopped him? Would certainly have to include Stoichkov in the 2nd tier players list.
Afte that Swansea seemed to calm themselves and get a foot back in the game.
I'm a Leicester fan and I know from bitter experience how good Swansea are. And well deserving of their moment in the sun. Fingers crossed they can settle in the Prem, and establish themselves like a Fulham or Bolton. I know my team had managed it under Martin O'Neill, and then Celtic came a knocking. From that moment onwards it was the glass mountain for the foxes.
@TheWizardOfIce Very true about all you've written. To me what brings a finisher in a top tier or 2nd tier is his ability to dominate and score every time. Very true that other finishers can be added to the top 2 tiers historically as some have also dominated for their sides in a world cup or two, much like Ronaldo did in 2002, who like Romario scored in every game except one, in his case it was England where Ronaldinho scored the long penalty against the puzzled Seaman. Sorry for the reminder lads ;)
Johan Cruyff never won the World Cup and he is always included in these conversations
as a bit of a football history buff I can also say that I have watched footage of Alfredo Di Stefano (the Argentine who lead Real Madrid to 5 European Cups) and Ferenc Puskas (the Hungarian who lead Hungary to an unequaled international winning record in the 50s, including the famous 6-3 defeat of England at Wembley) and I can vouch that both are essential components of any credible "best ever" discussion, although neither of them won a World Cup and Di Stefano never even played in a finals tournament
(not to mention a certain George Best and the incomparable Stanley Mathews)
PS if your interested in reading up on football history, Brian Glanville is god
Cruyff and Best are always brought up in such discussions as this - and rightly so. Best was surely the greatest footballing talent the British Isles have ever produced (in terms of sheer talent and ability), but as to international opportunities, well, his weren't much naturally, because he was Northern Irish. And despite the '68 European Cup final and the 'Charlton-Best-Law' combo and all that, far from all of the Man United sides he played in were fantastic.
As for Cruyff, well, he clearly left an enormous mark on the '74 World Cup, but again he and the Dutch masters relaxed too much in the final and lost it - again - to the opportunistic Germans. However, he certainly asserted himself on that tournament and in European club football too - he was king in the European Cup in the early '70s with Ajax and went on to excel with Barcelona, I believe. His international career was curtailed, though, when he retired early - and thus didn't play in the '78 World Cup, at which the Dutch fell at the final hurdle again. Had he been there, would the result have been different? Who knows, who knows...?
"Ferenc Puskás was a Hungarian footballer. He scored 84 goals in 85 international matches for Hungary, and 514 goals in 529 matches in the Hungarian and Spanish leagues.
He became Olympic champion in 1952 and was a World Cup finalist in 1954. He won three European Cups (1959, 1960, 1966), 10 national championships (5 Hungarian & 5 Spanish Primera División) and 8 top individual scoring honors.
While playing with Real Madrid, Puskás won four Pichichis and scored seven goals in two European Champions Cup finals
(The Pichichi is the trophy awarded by Spanish sports newspaper Marca to the top goalscorer for each league season.)
He was at the heart of the "Magic Magyars" Team that was unbeaten for 32 consecutive games. During this run, they defeated England twice, firstly with a 6–3 win at Wembley Stadium and then 7–1 in Budapest. Puskás scored two goals in each game against England.
Puskás scored three goals in the two first-round matches Hungary played at the 1954 FIFA World Cup. They defeated South Korea 9–0 and then West Germany 8–3. In the latter game, he suffered an ankle injury after a nasty tackle by Werner Liebrich and did not return until the final.
Puskás played the entire 1954 World Cup final against West Germany, although he was not fully fit. Despite this, he scored his fourth goal of the tournament to put Hungary ahead after six minutes, and with Czibor adding another goal two minutes later, it seemed that the pre-tournament favorites would take the title. However, the West Germans pulled back two goals before half time, with six minutes left the West Germans scored the winner. Two minutes from the end of the match, Puskás appeared to score an equalizer but the goal was disallowed due to an offside call...
Alfredo Di Stéfano is an Argentine footballer, most associated with Real Madrid and was instrumental in their domination of the European Champions' Cup during the 1950s, a period in which the club won the trophy in five consecutive seasons from 1956.
He is currently the 4th highest scorer in the history of Spain's top division, and Real Madrid's 2nd highest league goalscorer of all time, with 216 goals in 282 league matches between 1953 and 1964.
While playing with Real Madrid, Di Stefano won five Pichichis
In 1961, Di Stéfano (36) helped Spain qualify for the World Cup of 1962. A muscular injury just before the competition prevented him from playing in the finals.
Di Stéfano was voted fourth, behind Pelé, Diego Maradona, and Johan Cruyff, in a vote organized by the French weekly magazine France Football consulting their former Ballon d'Or winners to elect the Football Player of the Century.
Sir Stanley Matthews was an English footballer. He is the only player to have been knighted while still playing, as well as being the first winner of both the European Footballer of the Year and the Football Writers' Association Footballer of the Year awards.
A vegetarian teetotaller, he kept fit enough to play at the top level until he was 50 years old. He was also the oldest player ever to play in England's top football division and the oldest player ever to represent the country. He played his final competitive game in 1985, at the age of 70.
In 1938, Matthews asked for a transfer, causing a public outcry in Stoke. More than 3,000 fans attended a protest meeting and a further 1,000 marched outside the ground with placards. Matthews stayed.
The Second World War interrupted his career, during which time he served as a corporal in the Royal Air Force and was stationed near Blackpool. After the war, he then asked to be transferred to Blackpool. On 10 May 1947 he made the move for £11,500 at the age of 32
The winger became the oldest England player ever to score with his strike against Northern Ireland in Belfast on 6 October 1956, aged 41 In 1956, Matthews won the first-ever European Footballer of the Year (Ballon d'Or) award, and the following year was awarded a CBE in the New Year's honours list. On 15 May 1957, Matthews became the oldest player ever to represent England. On his last appearance for his country he was 42 years old
On 6 February 1965, just after his 50th birthday, when he played for the first time in twelve months owing to a knee injury, setting up the equaliser for his team. Even at the age of 50, he always claimed that he had retired 'too early'.
He played his final competitive match in Brazil in 1985 at the age of 70. He damaged his cartilage during the match. "A promising career cut tragically short," he wrote in his autobiography"
If cristiano ronaldo played for barcalona maybe people would say he's the greatest player ever?
Both players didn't do much in the world cup so that is one thing against them being known as the greatest player ever.
however Cristiano Ronaldo scored 40 goals to Messi's 31 this la liga season, so I think he's still a contender, we just don't see as much of him
and his Real Madrid side can't live with Barcelona as a team at the moment and Mourinho's negative approach to the semi final gave Ronaldo little chance to shine
A very underrated player who most people have barely heard of but whose great acheivements are worth noting.
84 goals in 85 games for Hungary is a stat worthy of Bradman.
Numerous European Cups and Spanish titles, not to mention 4 in the legendary 7-3 Real v Eintracht Frankfurt final.
First team to beat (well demolish) England at Wembley. His drag back to leave Billy Wright on his arse is pure class.
The only thing missing from his CV is a world cup and this is only due to a bit of bad luck and some typical German chicanery. Hungary by far the best team in the world at the time were cruising to the trophy when the odious Germans hacked him out of the game during their 8-3 mauling. Puskas returned for the final but was far from fit. He still scored though and bagged an equalizer which was dubiously given offside to hand the typically jammy krauts the trophy.
If he had managed to get that World Cup medal, his position in tier 1 of greats would be unquestioned.
in his prime, when he was at Barcelona, he was as good a player as I have ever seen
however later I believe he picked up an ankle (?) injury, while playing for Inter, from which he never fully recovered
IMO he was never able to train properly after that and began to gain weight
at Madrid he was only a shadow of the player he had been, however although he could no longer run any distance with the ball at his feet, he still had the close control and the invaluable predators instinct which tells a striker where to be in order to score
we may never know exactly what went wrong for him at the 1998 World Cup, when he was at his peak as a player, however he was able to get the job done in 2002, albeit in somewhat diminished form, as the spearhead of the "Three Rs" with Rivaldo and Ronaldino taking over the ball running of which he was no longer physically capable
He had a lot of knee problems and operations which he suffered.
He was a legend of a player.
He missed some good chances in his final game which is a shame.
Ronaldo has added a swag of European Cup winners medals and a Euro Championship medal to bolster his collection, along with a number of scoring records
Meanwhile Messi finally clinched a Copa America, after losing in several finals and also a World Cup final
And both have just begun a new chapter in their careers with new clubs... but surely time must begin to catch up with them soon?