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Thunderball 60th Anniversary Expanded & Remastered Limited Edition (La La Land records)

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  • nsb1234nsb1234 Sunny California
    Posts: 46
    morcarvic wrote: »
    so if I'm understanding you correctly Neil stick with my blu-ray for a more definitive blueprint to follow for how this score should be presented on any presentation of the film regardless of other interpretations.

    It's closer than the Mi Casa, for sure. To produce this new release, I referenced the mono DME, which is basically the "Alt" track on the new 4K UHD, as my guide for putting together the correct takes and sequencing.

    Neil
  • Bond_ScoresBond_Scores UK
    Posts: 146
    I’ve been really enjoying this release over the past fortnight. The new mix is great, particularly in the bass, which really pops. I noticed this in the Goldfinger album too - the double bass in particular is a lot more pronounced.

    And of course, all the unreleased material is a treasure trove for us fans.

    The mono stems are very impressively produced and I think sound better than their equivalents on the OHMSS album. I’ve sequenced them chronologically on my Playlist, as I don’t think there’s a noticeable dip in quality.

    I love all the hidden stories the La-La Land Record releases reveal. Take the strings at the start of ‘Bond Meets Domino (Take 1)’, which are quite disjointed and jarring. You can see why Barry opted for the smoother later take.

    The alternative version of 'Street Chase' is a real treat too.

    I’d also forgotten the brilliance of ‘Death Of Fiona’, specifically the way Barry deftly moves from source music to dramatic underscore and then back to source again.

    As an aside, it’s funny how you get accustomed to listening to tracks in a certain order; I’m surprised each time the slinky sax of ‘Traction Table’ doesn’t follow the Gun Barrel, as per the 2003 release!

    I’ve attempted to list all the new cues with their slate numbers, based on Lukas’ notes from 2003 and my powers of deduction:

    01 Gun Barrel (1M1)
    02 Château Flight (Film Version) (1M2)
    03 Thunderball (Main Title) (1M3)
    04 SPECTRE Electrocution (The Spa) (2M1)
    05 The Spa (2M2)
    06 The Rack (2M3)
    07 Sweat Box (2M4)
    08 Double Derval (3M1)
    09 Switching The Body (3M2)
    10 Gassing The Plane (3M3)
    11 Plane Underwater (Unused) (The Bomb) (4M1)
    12 The Bomb (Film Version) (4M2)
    13 Disco Volante Sets Sail (The Bomb) (4M3)
    14 The Execution Branch (Mostly Unused) (4M4)
    15 Code Name: Thunderball (5M1)
    16 Bond Meets Domino (5M2)
    17 Café Martinique (Film Version) (6M1)
    18 Casino (5M3)
    19 Bond & Domino Dine (Café Martinique) (6M1)
    20 Checking The Room (Café Martinique) (6M2)
    21 Shark Tank (6M3)
    22 Bond Below Disco Volante (Extended Version) (7M2)
    23 SPECTRE Ring (7M3) (0.45)
    24 Do You Fly Here Often? (7M4)* (0.20)
    25 Search for Vulcan (8M1)
    26 Paula Attacked (8M2) (Lights Out For Paula)
    27 Lights Out For Paula (8M3)
    28 The One That Got Away (9M1)* (3.05)
    29 Bathing Beauty (9M2)
    30 You Should Be Locked Up In A Cage (9M3) (Bathing Beauty)
    31 For King & Country (9M4)
    32 Street Chase (10M1)
    33 Kiss Kiss Club (10M2)
    34 Death Of Fiona (10M3)
    35 The Golden Grotto (10M4)
    36 Bond Uncovers The Vulcan (10M5) (The Golden Grotto)
    37 Underwater Ballet (11M1)
    38 Got The Point (11M2)
    39 Bond With SPECTRE Frogmen (11M3)
    40 The Bombs Revealed (11M4)
    41 Tracked Music - Chateau Flight (1M2)
    42 Bond Is Discovered (Mostly Unused) (12M1)
    43 Caught (12M2)
    44 Leiter To The Rescue (12M3)
    45 The Underwater Battle Begins (13M1)
    46 Bond Drops In (The Underwater Battle Begins - Mostly Unused) (13M2)
    47 Grenade Drop (Underwater Mayhem) (13M3)
    48 Underwater Mayhem (Truncated) (13M4)
    49 Death Of Largo (14M1)
    50 End Titles (Partly Unused) (14M2)
    51 James Bond Theme


    Questions for @nsb1234 - what is cue 7M1 please?

    Also for the ‘Grenade Drop’ cue at the start of ‘Underwater Mayhem’ (presumably 13M3), did Barry end on the brass crescendo, or the gentle string chord that’s in the same key? The strings seem a strange way to open the ‘Underwater Mayhem’ cue to my ear, but I may be wrong.
  • nsb1234nsb1234 Sunny California
    Posts: 46
    Bond_Scores wrote: »
    Questions for @nsb1234 - what is cue 7M1 please?

    I don't understand the question.
    Bond_Scores wrote: »
    Also for the ‘Grenade Drop’ cue at the start of ‘Underwater Mayhem’ (presumably 13M3), did Barry end on the brass crescendo, or the gentle string chord that’s in the same key? The strings seem a strange way to open the ‘Underwater Mayhem’ cue to my ear, but I may be wrong.

    The brass crescendo is the end of the prior cue.

    Starting with "Moonraker" the James Bond "Score Presentations" have been mastered with sub-indexes, essentially tracks within tracks. I work with Doug Schwartz, the mastering engineer, to put these at all cue combinations. If you want to know where all the starts and stops are, I recommend getting a CD player that can still show indexes or research ripping software that can extract this information.

    Neil
  • DavidW07DavidW07 London England
    edited October 7 Posts: 11
    I never realised those track sub-indexes were there. I just fired up my 20-year-old Arcam CD player and now I can see them! That's great Neil, thanks for adding them in.

    And thanks @bondscores for the cue list breakdown by slate number. 7M1 does seem conspicuous by its absence.

  • morcarvicmorcarvic france
    Posts: 164
    DavidW07 wrote: »
    I never realised those track sub-indexes were there. I just fired up my 20-year-old Arcam CD player and now I can see them! That's great Neil, thanks for adding them in.

    And thanks @bondscores for the cue list breakdown by slate number. 7M1 does seem conspicuous by its absence.
    based on neils reply davidw07 can you say if there is or isn't a index stop/start approximately17 seconds from the end of shark tank,just to try and work out if this was an unused ending to that scene in the film or a short cue in it's own right equally unused in the film?
  • DavidW07DavidW07 London England
    edited October 8 Posts: 11
    Shark Tank does indeed have a second index marker at 02:25, 18 seconds from the end. This part of track 15 (the last 18 seconds) appears to be previously unreleased, ie not included on the 2003 Lukas Kendall CD. It could either be 7M1, I guess, or else possibly an undocumented 6M cue.
  • humblepilothumblepilot UK
    Posts: 21
    I've finally finished my listen and rewatch, and I have to echo what others have said about the sound quality, it's so good. I wish the rest of my music library had the same depth and fidelity as this release!

    I don't think I had heard some of these tracks before, "Code Name: Thunderball" doesn't play on my DVD copy, for example.

    Favourite tracks: "Casino", "Lights Out for Paula", "Bathing Beauty", "For King and Country".

    Watching Thunderball again was enjoyable as well. Just as rewatching OHMSS made me appreciate the underrated henchman Grunther, I had forgotten just how great Vargas is in this film. I like the whole villainous team of the movie, in fact, and love how Fiona Volpe is more or less coequal with Largo. And I never even realised that Bond's ally Pinder was played by the great Earl Cameron, of Pool of London fame.
  • Bond_ScoresBond_Scores UK
    Posts: 146
    Watching this part of the film back this morning, I'd guess that 7M1 is at the end of 'Shark Tank' and it's for the scene when Bond and Leiter are on the boat heading towards the Disco Volante. It does fit timings-wise.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,434
    humblepilot wrote: »
    I've finally finished my listen and rewatch, and I have to echo what others have said about the sound quality, it's so good. I wish the rest of my music library had the same depth and fidelity as this release!

    I don't think I had heard some of these tracks before, "Code Name: Thunderball" doesn't play on my DVD copy, for example.

    Yeah, the most logical place is:

  • DavidW07DavidW07 London England
    edited October 8 Posts: 11
    For anyone interested, here's a full list of timings for the cue-indicator index markers:
    Disc 1:
    04 The Spa: 01:05
    05 The Rack / Sweat Box: 01:36
    15 Shark Tank: 02:25
    19 Lights Out for Paula: 0:55
    20 Bathing Beauty: 00:23
    22 Street Chase / Kiss Kiss Club: 02:40
    24 The Golden Grotto: 01:27
    Disc 2:
    02 The Underwater Battle Begins: 01:36
    03 Underwater Mayhem: 00:48 and 04:12
    ‐---
    Unexpectedly, Disc 1 track 9 'The Bomb (Film Version)' has no additional index markers.

    Also, @bondscores - I noticed that contrary to your cue list, Lukas in his FSM Thunderball discussion indicated that Cafe Martinique was just one cue, 6M1. (Hence no additional index marker in the 2026 CD track.) He indicated that 6M2, not 6M3 was Shark Tank. So Disc 1 track 15 on the new release is 6M2 with, we deduce, the additional 7M1 newly appended by Neil.
  • morcarvicmorcarvic france
    Posts: 164
    DavidW07 wrote: »
    Shark Tank does indeed have a second index marker at 02:25, 18 seconds from the end. This part of track 15 (the last 18 seconds) appears to be previously unreleased, ie not included on the 2003 Lukas Kendall CD. It could either be 7M1, I guess, or else possibly an undocumented 6M cue.

    Many thanks for the info David I think that confirms my suspicions for that being the unused daylight boat recce in the harbour containing the disco volante,also thanks to bondscores for backing that up.
  • Bond_ScoresBond_Scores UK
    Posts: 146
    DavidW07 wrote: »
    Also, @bondscores - I noticed that contrary to your cue list, Lukas in his FSM Thunderball discussion indicated that Cafe Martinique was just one cue, 6M1. (Hence no additional index marker in the 2026 CD track.) He indicated that 6M2, not 6M3 was Shark Tank. So Disc 1 track 15 on the new release is 6M2 with, we deduce, the additional 7M1 newly appended by Neil.

    Thanks David, that's very useful. I'll update this thread as I now think we have a definitive list of the Thunderball cues!
  • LeighBurneLeighBurne
    Posts: 113
    Finally got around to listening to the CD. Not as familiar with this score as some of the others that La-La have done but it all sounded predictably ace to my ears.

    Also listened to the 007 Files episode; slightly ashamed to say I had no idea there were differing audio mixes for this movie!
  • DavidW07DavidW07 London England
    Posts: 11
    Hi @nsb1234 - Could you possibly provide all the "reel and part numbers" (e.g.13M1) and their titles (if they have titles), for the cues in the following two tracks?

    Disc 2 track 2: The Underwater Battle Begins
    Disc 2 track 3: Underwater Mayhem

    I'm trying to reconcile Lukas's FSM notes on these tracks with the material and index markers you added to them. If you have this info to hand, I'd really appreciate it.

    Many thanks again for a wonderful release, i am still enthralled after many days of listening.
  • morcarvicmorcarvic france
    Posts: 164
    just a random thought on the two king Erisson and his combo tracks but because there are only two is it conceivable they were recorded at a separate studio perhaps in the bahamas as a potential 45rpm single to capitalise on the film's release and their participation?,similarly maybe barry's pop versions were ditched as a prospective single though less likely to have been at an alternate recording studio session i grant you.
  • DavidW07DavidW07 London England
    edited October 18 Posts: 11
    I just noticed that my ?1976 Sunset Records vinyl reissue of the Thunderball soundtrack (SLS 50396) has a couple of the tracks retitled, compared to the original 1965 UA soundtrack lp. Track 3 (The Spa) is called "Electrocution - Searching Lippe's Room". And Track 5 (The Bomb) is "Vulcan Crash Landing - Loading Bombs Into Disco Volante". These lengthier and more descriptive titles help to confirm the intended placement of the related cues in the film. I do wonder why the track titles were changed though. (This vinyl release also has very different sleeve art and design compared to the original.)
  • morcarvicmorcarvic france
    Posts: 164
    DavidW07 wrote: »
    I just noticed that my ?1976 Sunset Records vinyl reissue of the Thunderball soundtrack (SLS 50396) has a couple of the tracks retitled, compared to the original 1965 UA soundtrack lp. Track 3 (The Spa) is called "Electrocution - Searching Lippe's Room". And Track 5 (The Bomb) is "Vulcan Crash Landing - Loading Bombs Into Disco Volante". These lengthier and more descriptive titles help to confirm the intended placement of the related cues in the film. I do wonder why the track titles were changed though. (This vinyl release also has very different sleeve art and design compared to the original.)

    your copy is a uk release if you
    have the spa etc track titles
    its going to be american with the bond underwater fight cover.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pun Barrel
    Posts: 7,286
    I like those UK titles better.
  • morcarvicmorcarvic france
    Posts: 164
    yep so do i they're definately more accurate for example the u.s title the bomb suggests just one stolen atomic missile rather than the two in the film purely by the sloppy grammar of leaving off a letter "s" also the uk title of that track gives us the name of the first cue of that track that went unused in the film namely "vulcan crash landing".another instance would be the two distinct scenes "electrocution"-"searching lippe's room" accurately informing the listener where they heard these cues presented chronologicaly in one track against the granted more succinct "the spa" but i don't think "shrublands" would be described as such in britain rather as a health clinic and i think correct me if i'm wrong that's how fleming described it.

  • morcarvicmorcarvic france
    Posts: 164
    I may as well add chateau Fight is more correct than chateau flight as the cue ends before the actual jetpack flight but of course covers the fight between bond and the spectre agent disguised as a widow, in the case of cafe martininque this is absolutely correct over Cape since the restaurant existed and I believe still does but it is on paradise island the Bahamas and not on a Cape of an altogether different island bearing the name Martinique.
  • DavidW07DavidW07 London England
    Posts: 11
    I agree that the lengthier UK track titles for 'The Spa' and 'The Bomb' are much more accurate and informative. It seems the US record distributors prefeŕred snappy titles. The six track listings for each lp side did have to be printed on the record labels, where space might be at a premium, depending on the label design layout. I reckon that may have been a reason to favour brevity.

    I also agree that 'Chateau Fight' (UK title) makes a lot more sense than 'Chateau Flight' (US title), given the placement of the cue in the film.

    And yes 'Cape Martinique' (UK title) is a typo; a rather unfortunate one.

    The word 'spa' does not appear in the novel: Fleming refers to it as a clinic, or nature clinic. Back in the early 1960s I don't believe 'spa' was commonly used in the UK for a Shrublands-type health resort. Although in recent decades that meaning has definitely crossed the Atlantic.
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