Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 1,756
    mtm wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    To put things into context, we're almost at the 3rd year anniversary of Babs saying filming would be at least 2 years away, and there's no writer or director only rumours and guesses.

    I agree.

    And it's been 4 years, the thing is, yes, while we have the 6 years hiatus with LTK - Goldeneye but it was a different time back then and if my memory serves, we have James Bond Jr. Cartoons from 1991-1992, so the people back then have still something to remember Bond by as they're waiting for the new Bond film, just like again, with the multiple Star Wars series, there may have been no new films as of now, but they have series and spin offs, Bond at this point has none.
    Sure, The First Light may spark some talks, but until when? I mean, I know it caused quite a stir in public, but not as explosive as the news regarding Bond 26, with wider public coverage.
    And now, with too many distractions like Netflix, social media and internet, the longer the hiatus, the faster or quicker the relevance is fading away.

    I'm just looking at what the public thought of Bond at this point (Facebook and Twitter), and some of them have been losing interest, actually they've enjoyed the recent Mission Impossible film, and John Wick has Ballerina with Ana De Armas.

    So if, very hypothetically, in a parallel universe something had happened at EON and the next Bond film from NTTD had a gap of 10 years, you think the general public would completely have lost interest when a new Bond film was announced?

    Yeah and honestly, what if somehow they have? And I don't buy that they have: look at all the other films which have gaps between sequels: the next Star Wars film is coming next year, which is a gap of, what, seven years since the last one? Have people forgotten SW?
    But if they have, why worry about it? There's nothing you or I can do about it; just let the very well-paid MGM people worry about it.
    delfloria wrote: »

    There's not much in the way of evidence cited in that article: I hope the writer isn't just basing it on the chart on the Netflix app on their TV! :D
    Not very positive news if it is true though as it means Netflix will keep pumping out yet more bland spy movies.

    Not very positive? SPECTRE, which opened the same year as U.N.C.L.E., was the lesser of the two films.

    I don't think it was. What I mean is that Netflix already produce loads of incredibly bland and forgettable spy films (either semi serious Bond ripoffs or quite often they're comedies where someone discovers that someone in their family is secretly a superspy with hilarious results), and if what the article says were true about UNCLE being a hit on Netflix right now then Netflix would likely take that as proof that people want more spy films and keep pumping out the trashy ones they make. Thankfully it doesn't appear to be true at all and based on absolutely nothing, so nothing to worry about. It's not even on Netflix here.
    I did quite enjoy UNCLE, incidentally.

    Oh, please. Interest for UNCLE on streaming ? As indicated above in response, a thirsty man in the desert gets excited for mud. UNCLE was terribly dull, drab and disinteresting, despite an interesting and gorgeous cast. Going with the "Italian thrillers of the 1960s" as "inspiration" was weeeeakkk....SPECTRE didn't hit people the way Skyfall did, but is so superior to UNCLE that a "comparison" would be silly. As one may note from the sequels to UNCLE - oh, wait...there were none. Their protagonist lead actors were just starting out in what might have lead to a series of films, not finishing up, and yet...crickets. With good reason.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,350
    Oh I did like the Italian spy flick inspiration. I wasn't expecting that and it gave it a nice flavour, especially with the music.
    If Pemberton signed up to Bond I wouldn't be upset.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited June 25 Posts: 653
    Most modern espionage films are either humourless, or played for laughs.

    Plots with "surprise" twists for their own sake, which often undermine everything that has gone before and spoil the whole experience.

    Villains that are either illogically brutal, comical or inept and thus not a convincing threat to the hero / heroine.

    They just can't seem to get the balance right anymore
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    edited June 26 Posts: 1,076
    It’s Villeneuve.
    https://variety.com/2025/film/news/james-bond-denis-villeneuve-director-1236441253/

    Edit:
    “Some of my earliest movie-going memories are connected to 007. I grew up watching James Bond films with my father, ever since ‘Dr. No’ with Sean Connery. I’m a die-hard Bond fan. To me, he’s sacred territory,” Villeneuve said. “I intend to honor the tradition and open the path for many new missions to come. This is a massive responsibility, but also, incredibly exciting for me and a huge honor. Amy, David, and I are absolutely thrilled to bring him back to the screen. Thank you to Amazon MGM Studios for their trust.”
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,536
    Fine director, one we've been talking about for years. So I'm happy with that at least. :)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,813
    I was just thinking today that there had not been any official news in a long time.

    @peter, weren't we talking about this in the thread not long ago, before Broccoli and Wilson cashed out?
  • Posts: 6,880
    “Some of my earliest movie-going memories are connected to 007. I grew up watching James Bond films with my father, ever since ‘Dr. No’ with Sean Connery. I’m a die-hard Bond fan. To me, he’s sacred territory,” Villeneuve said. “I intend to honor the tradition and open the path for many new missions to come. This is a massive responsibility, but also, incredibly exciting for me and a huge honor.”
    [/quote]

    All the right words, right there. I already love where he's at.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    edited June 26 Posts: 1,076
    Univex wrote: »
    “Some of my earliest movie-going memories are connected to 007. I grew up watching James Bond films with my father, ever since ‘Dr. No’ with Sean Connery. I’m a die-hard Bond fan. To me, he’s sacred territory,” Villeneuve said. “I intend to honor the tradition and open the path for many new missions to come. This is a massive responsibility, but also, incredibly exciting for me and a huge honor.”

    All the right words, right there. I already love where he's at.
    Don’t be too sure - Villeneuve was on record for loving Dune, too, but he made some big changes to the source that didn’t go down so well with everybody. I'm still a bit nervous.
  • Posts: 6,880
    Univex wrote: »
    “Some of my earliest movie-going memories are connected to 007. I grew up watching James Bond films with my father, ever since ‘Dr. No’ with Sean Connery. I’m a die-hard Bond fan. To me, he’s sacred territory,” Villeneuve said. “I intend to honor the tradition and open the path for many new missions to come. This is a massive responsibility, but also, incredibly exciting for me and a huge honor.”

    All the right words, right there. I already love where he's at.
    Don’t be too sure - Villeneuve was on record for loving Dune, too, but he made some big changes to the source that didn’t go down so well with everybody. I'm still a bit nervous.

    I'd say...he improved upon the source, respectfully. Which is always polemical, but interesting, to say the least. I'm calm. The only thing that worries me, really, is the cast, mainly Bond himself :)
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited June 26 Posts: 653
    Univex wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    “Some of my earliest movie-going memories are connected to 007. I grew up watching James Bond films with my father, ever since ‘Dr. No’ with Sean Connery. I’m a die-hard Bond fan. To me, he’s sacred territory,” Villeneuve said. “I intend to honor the tradition and open the path for many new missions to come. This is a massive responsibility, but also, incredibly exciting for me and a huge honor.”

    All the right words, right there. I already love where he's at.
    Don’t be too sure - Villeneuve was on record for loving Dune, too, but he made some big changes to the source that didn’t go down so well with everybody. I'm still a bit nervous.

    I'd say...he improved upon the source, respectfully. Which is always polemical, but interesting, to say the least. I'm calm. The only thing that worries me, really, is the cast, mainly Bond himself :)

    Yes, I completely disagree with you there, personally I didn't like many of the choices Villeneuve made in his version of Dune, leaving out fundamentally important scenes and character development in order to simplify the story, which made the result bland and generic, instead of unique and distinctive.

    However his Dune has the advantage over the Lynch version, which could not manage to cram the story into one film successfully, and had some very dodgy special effects. The makeup was outstanding, but the model work was embarassing, following in the wake of Star Wars, not even Gerry Anderson level.

    The TV version of Dune is probably the best so far, from a story telling perspective, but even then they made a few changes which were not an improvement IMO and had a weak ending. It only had 90s TV level special effects, but allowing for that it was a respectable effort.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited June 26 Posts: 6,037
    I totally get where the concerns come from, Dune is notoriously difficult to adapt, and no version is going to please everyone, but I think Denis Villeneuve’s take made smart, deliberate choices to translate Herbert’s dense, introspective prose into something that works cinematically. Yes, some elements were streamlined or altered, but that’s the nature of adaptation, especially with something as sprawling and internal as Dune. What we got was atmospheric, visually stunning, and thematically faithful. That alone is a rare feat, considering how often the book was deemed “unadaptable.”

    And let’s not forget, Dune isn’t just any adaptation. It’s a heavy lift. So compared to James Bond, I think it’s a bit apples and oranges. Bond isn’t a philosophical epic layered with invented religions, ecological metaphors, and dream logic, it’s a well-established cinematic universe with different demands. If Denis could take Dune and turn it into something that resonated with both longtime fans and general audiences, I’m pretty confident he’ll bring depth and a fresh visual grammar to Bond without needing to fight the same structural battles.

    His Dune may not be perfect (although I think it is personally), but the fact that it works as well as it does is proof enough of his capability, especially when it comes to adapting material with respect and vision.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited June 27 Posts: 653
    Denbigh wrote: »

    And let’s not forget, Dune isn’t just any adaptation. It’s a heavy lift. So compared to James Bond, I think it’s a bit apples and oranges. Bond isn’t a philosophical epic layered with invented religions, ecological metaphors, and dream logic, it’s a well-established cinematic universe with different demands. If Denis could take Dune and turn it into something that resonated with both longtime fans and general audiences, I’m pretty confident he’ll bring depth and a fresh visual grammar to Bond without needing to fight the same structural battles.

    I agree, Bond should be much simpler to deal with from a character and story development standpoint. No need to try and explain Bond further, we already know who he is and what he's about, we just need an ingenious plot to put him in.

    Hopefully take a day off from the personal tribulations and angst of Craig-Bond
    Denbigh wrote: »
    His Dune may not be perfect (although I think it is personally), but the fact that it works as well as it does is proof enough of his capability, especially when it comes to adapting material with respect and vision.

    I'm not meaning to question his respect for the material, he's certainly no JJ Abrams or Michael Bay. I just think there's still a far better version of "Dune" yet to be made. (Perhaps there is a Dune thread out there where I can explain my reservations in detail sometime, however I've engaged in such a discussion before and neither party changed their opinion of the film, as is usually the case in subjective matters).

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 6,037
    Totally fair, although I do think Villeneuve, and whoever he writes with (if he does write as well), could still explore Bond’s character in a meaningful way without treading the same emotional ground as the Craig-era.

    As for Dune, I get it, it’s not a definitive version for everyone. But for me, Villeneuve struck a really compelling balance between fidelity and cinematic clarity. Still, I’d be genuinely interested to read your take if you ever post it elsewhere. Thoughtful criticism is always worth engaging with, especially on a work as complex and open to interpretation as Dune.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 27 Posts: 18,350
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Totally fair, although I do think Villeneuve, and whoever he writes with (if he does write as well), could still explore Bond’s character in a meaningful way without treading the same emotional ground as the Craig-era.

    Yeah I’m not sure I really want a bog standard mission film. I love the Indiana Jones films, and every one of those features a milestone in Indy’s life from which he emerges changed in some way, and I like that a lot, I think it makes them stronger. I don’t see why Bond can’t have that (no, I’m not asking to see him team up with his dad before someone says that).
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 156
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Totally fair, although I do think Villeneuve, and whoever he writes with (if he does write as well), could still explore Bond’s character in a meaningful way without treading the same emotional ground as the Craig-era.

    Yeah I’m not sure I really want a bog standard mission film. I love the Indiana Jones films, and every one of those features a milestone in Indy’s life from which he emerges changed in some way, and I like that a lot, I think it makes them stronger. I don’t see why Bond can’t have that (no, I’m not asking to see him team up with his dad before someone says that).

    Would be very awkward teaming up with a 20-year-old corpse.

    Agreed with your post though.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 653
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I’m not sure I really want a bog standard mission film. I love the Indiana Jones films, and every one of those features a milestone in Indy’s life from which he emerges changed in some way, and I like that a lot, I think it makes them stronger. I don’t see why Bond can’t have that (no, I’m not asking to see him team up with his dad before someone says that).

    Remind me, what were the milestones in Indy's life in 1 & 2 please

  • edited June 27 Posts: 464
    Seve wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I’m not sure I really want a bog standard mission film. I love the Indiana Jones films, and every one of those features a milestone in Indy’s life from which he emerges changed in some way, and I like that a lot, I think it makes them stronger. I don’t see why Bond can’t have that (no, I’m not asking to see him team up with his dad before someone says that).

    Remind me, what were the milestones in Indy's life in 1 & 2 please

    In Raiders, Indy’s views on religion and the supernatural are changed forever. He’s the skeptic that becomes a believer, not a man of faith, but a historian who understands that there’s more to history than mere relics.

    In Temple, Indy overcomes fear and the supernatural to become something more than an archaeologist or adventurer. He embraces his role as a hero when no one else has the willpower or the inclination to save a village of children from slavery.

    The Bond franchise shouldn’t be a sandbox that’s closed off from modern tastes or modern ways of telling a story. Just as the technology in making a Bond film evolves, so should the techniques of moving that narrative. I don’t see how Bond on a mission and Bond learning or growing or reflecting on that mission are mutually exclusive. Fleming did it.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 27 Posts: 18,350
    Seve wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I’m not sure I really want a bog standard mission film. I love the Indiana Jones films, and every one of those features a milestone in Indy’s life from which he emerges changed in some way, and I like that a lot, I think it makes them stronger. I don’t see why Bond can’t have that (no, I’m not asking to see him team up with his dad before someone says that).

    Remind me, what were the milestones in Indy's life in 1 & 2 please

    In Raiders he's reunited with Marion, who he comes to realise is the most important person to him, and he also travels from being a sceptic to understanding there's unknown power out there; in Temple we're introduced to the selfish earlier version of Indy who is seeking only 'fortune and glory'- but he becomes a more altruistic, heroic character who chooses to save the children.
    Raiders probably does have the least development for him of all of them, but it's still more than Bond undergoes in any movie pre-2006 really. Even in LTK I'm not sure you could say he learns anything or changes.
  • Posts: 720
    Yeah I have to say I see no chance Villeneuve just does a standard mission film with a consistent Bond throughout. His protagonists usually go on a journey throughout the film (even stoic ones like K in Blade Runner 2049) -- although I have to say the most dissappointing was probably Kate in Sicario because she was written to basically be a foil for the events of the film, and it was actually Alejandro the one going through the interesting character journey.

    However, Bond being fleshed out through the film doens't have to mean the villain will have some sort of personal connection to him, those things aren't mutually inclusive. We'll just have to wait and see.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,813
    I am hopeful that Villeneuve appreciates literature, as seen with Dune. So maybe we'll still get Fleming in some shape or form.
  • I get that sometimes Bond should be impacted by the result of a previous mission. Perhaps by injury (such as from FRWL to DN) or by frustration (such as from YOLT-OHMSS and TB-OHMSS) or even by a kind of cynicism (on could argue that QoS-SF had this sort of impact).

    But the thing is, a milestone in every film firstly will impact the character in silly ways (once you've done marriage, a child and death, the milestones possible are only really limited after that). Bond fought recently with his long-lost adopted brother in a twist most people found silly. At some point while trying for a milestone in every film, the film is sent in weird directions.

    On top of that, I don't think Bond is a character for the sort of character development sought after for here. I mean looking at the best novels, FRWL, MR, and OHMSS, what does Bond even learn in those stories. The only time Bond learns something is in CR, where he learns that his job is not about principles but about people and not to underestimate women (and perhaps the importance of trusty friends).
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,813
    On top of that, I don't think Bond is a character for the sort of character development sought after for here. I mean looking at the best novels, FRWL, MR, and OHMSS, what does Bond even learn in those stories. The only time Bond learns something is in CR, where he learns that his job is not about principles but about people and not to underestimate women (and perhaps the importance of trusty friends).

    I feel like I read different novels? In each of those books, Bond makes mistakes and learns about his own vulnerabilities with regard to his career or his job or both.

    It's those vulnerabilities that make Bond appealing as a character. Even something like Moore's reaction after the centrifuge scene in the film MR show a vulnerability.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 1,076
    I don’t think anyone said that Bond shouldn’t make mistakes or show vulnerability.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,813
    I don’t think anyone said that Bond shouldn’t make mistakes or show vulnerability.

    That's character development.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    edited June 27 Posts: 1,076
    I don’t think Moore’s Bond looking shaken after a brush with death in the centrifuge is really what most of us would think of as character development. How has that moment developed his character? How has it changed his outlook on his life or his perception of himself?
  • echo wrote: »
    On top of that, I don't think Bond is a character for the sort of character development sought after for here. I mean looking at the best novels, FRWL, MR, and OHMSS, what does Bond even learn in those stories. The only time Bond learns something is in CR, where he learns that his job is not about principles but about people and not to underestimate women (and perhaps the importance of trusty friends).

    I feel like I read different novels? In each of those books, Bond makes mistakes and learns about his own vulnerabilities with regard to his career or his job or both.

    It's those vulnerabilities that make Bond appealing as a character. Even something like Moore's reaction after the centrifuge scene in the film MR show a vulnerability.

    What does Bond learn in those novels then? And not in a "next time take the plane" way, but in a long-lasting way that we can see in later novels? Bond changes, sure, but not in a way easily attributed to certain events. Bond changes with age and fatigue, as most people do.

    Bond making mistakes or being vulnerable isn't character development. It could spark character development and change, but making mistakes isn't an act of development in itself. If Bond makes a mistake but doesn't change at all, he hasn't developed by definition. For example; Bond is scared by turbulence on Friday the 13th in FRWL. However, he continues to take planes afterward. There's no development there. We just learn more about Bond.

    And anyway, I'm not anti-development either. Past stories can and sometimes should impact the way Bond acts. But I don't think every film should be a milestone in Bond's life.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,696
    echo wrote: »
    I was just thinking today that there had not been any official news in a long time.

    @peter, weren't we talking about this in the thread not long ago, before Broccoli and Wilson cashed out?

    Yes, absolutely, @echo , I heard deafening rumblings last February that that's who EoN had their eyes on to resurrect Bond. I posted as such and got raked for it, lol.

    In the end he got it.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited June 27 Posts: 6,813
    I think Villeneuve is the best possible choice of the ones on the apparent finalist list. I don't care much for scifi nor do I want to read the Dune novels but damn if he hasn't really interested me in those worlds in the last two films.

    I am sure that the opportunity to set the look and tone of the new era was irresistible to him. I also deeply respect that he has been unafraid to follow up the titans Ridley Scott and David Lynch. Bond 26 will be confidently directed.

    I think Jonathan Nolan would have been an interesting choice (he does the action/emotion/cerebral balance better than Christopher) but he was probably too much of a gamble as a director.

    I don't rate Berger as highly. I loved Deutschland '83 (at least the first season) but Conclave was again too much of a cerebral puzzle piece being carried to greatness by some of the best actors in the business.
  • DaltonforyouDaltonforyou The Daltonator
    Posts: 842
    Denis' films are dry as dust, I will say. His Bond film will need to be a lot more lively.
  • edited June 27 Posts: 2,209
    echo wrote: »
    I am hopeful that Villeneuve appreciates literature, as seen with Dune. So maybe we'll still get Fleming in some shape or form.

    We've had Fleming, indeed, the producers wisely eschewed his 1950s pro-Brittania.

    Time to do something new.

    Pro-Brittania? Explain.
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