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Comments
It's not a film I want to hate or have anything against necessarily. Actually on paper I like a lot of the ideas, and as I said in the past I've enjoyed it.
It's just the last couple of times I watched it the experience was awful for me. The pace during the last third I found to be noticeably bad. That's what I mean by it being a deflating experience - there's absolutely no sense of tension to, say, them finding the Washington bomb and it seems to happen offscreen, or the climax in general. To give the EON films credit I've never experienced that same lack of engagement, even in my least favourite ones.
At least it doesn't have three endings like Octopussy. A movie that doesn't know when it has to end.
I don't mind the third act of OP. I don't find it dissimilar to Bond films like FRWL or TLD which you can argue have that similar sense of 'three endings'. It's a film that deals with a lot of characters and loose threads to tie up by the third act at any rate. As I've said about CR I think the sinking house gave that film a much needed, effective climax, and the film would have suffered had it not been there.
I definitely get a lot more out of OP on the whole. There's genuine suspense during the circus scene, and the assault on the palace feels consistent and exciting. With NSNA you get this weird sense that everything's off during that climax (ie. is there any reason Bond has to be transported by helicopter after the Tears of Allah exit crumbles only to just go in the water again? It's an obstacle for Bond, but it's the least exciting way they could have done it. Just kills any sense of momentum or excitement).
It's a really bizarre film in my opinion. Much more poorly made than I think many people realise.
The last 15 minutes are painful to watch.
Climaxes are not the strong point of Bond films, anyway. LTK has a good one, but most of the time they are gunfire and explosions.
I do think the final assault is needed. The bomb at the circus is great, but it's not an action sequence in itself, and I think it'd be difficult to have Bond defeat the villain in that scenario (it'd be a bit odd with him in his clown costume, and that's too good an idea to scrap!) So I can see why it was written that way. I don't find the last 15 minutes noticeably difficult to watch, but that's just me.
Nothing wrong with gunfire and explosion climaxes. That's part of why we go to see these movies. They still have to maintain that sense of tension and deliver those satisfying moments. NSNA I feel doesn't even do that well, and I don't think this is the case with the EON Bond films. They completely flub Largo's death (to give TB credit they at least decided to have Largo be killed in the boat where we can actually see the expressions of the actors. Having it underwater is a terrible choice for a film).
Something in the style of John Williams is missing.
I don't think that's it. You can have very suspenseful scenes that don't have scores at all. It comes down to not being very well constructed and lacking proper tension. It comes down to bad filmmaking and storytelling.
That said NSNA's score is another thing I don't like about it!
The lack of music works in the chase scene, but not here in the climax. I don't think it's a problem with the direction; those scenes just needed music.
Soundtracks are used for a reason.
I think even with a half decent score (assuming the score/music beats were written to accommodate the scene and not vice versa) the pacing would still be off and you'd still still have the issues I mentioned. It's a bit like trying to put a band aid on cut that requires stitches.
The pace would improve. And I don't think the rest would really be a problem. The jet pack and the underwater fight seem fine to me.
Only if they re-edited it to play better with this hypothetical score and perhaps tighten things up (maybe). But otherwise it's not just a case of slapping on different music and suddenly all your filmmaking problems are fixed (trust me, I've had these issues in my own editing).
Underwater fights aren't my thing personally. I think they can be too slow at the best of times. The jet packs look like they're from a B movie Sci Fi flick from the 50s and a but stupid. I think having Bond and Leiter go from water, to being airborne, and into the water again just drags the pace. That said both those things were issues with TB and not great in that either.
A good soundtrack would improve the slight pacing issues.
In fact, I think the pace of the film is very good for its length.
NSNA is an inferior remake. It rehashes jokes from Porridge.
It's just shit.
Hate when terrible films are given too much airtime and later favourably re-evaluated.
So bad it's good?
No, it's just shit.
I think that's fair. I think there's plenty to like in it, but I find it quite telling to compare with Octopussy (which cost less to make!), a much slicker and more expensive-looking film: Broccoli knew what he was going.
Funnily enough I almost wish McClory had made another one, as I reckon there's surely a really good Bond film to be made from Thunderball, and I don't think they quite managed it either time.
It's a good joke! :)
As much as I love TB, I don't think NSNA is "just shit".
I think Sean delivers a fine performance as Bond, better than in, say, YOLT. Also, the dialogue is really good, the villain duo Brandauer-Carrera is superb and Bernie Casey is my very favourite Felix. Moreover the French Riviera scenes are appropriately atmopheric, the motorcycle chase is excellent and I quite like the climax too.
So no, I don't think it's "just shit".
Doing better than YOLT is low hanging fruit, and there are no particularly appealing setpieces. Brandeur and Carrera do work, but better than Celi et Paluzzi is a massive call.
Nothing better than its source material. Remakes have to be better. nsna fails in this regard.
In fact, having just a little of TB's charm already makes it better than many.
In retrospect, I think the fact that it was a remake helped NSNA. The film is different, but it's still a Bond movie.
We've seen enough legacy sequels to know how crazy they can get.
The arch villains, henchpeople, locations, evil schemes and love interests change, but the basic pattern usually remains much the same, a variation on a familiar theme. The rest is just minor details.
That's not a negative, as that is what I want and expect from them.
So when I watch NSNA I'm not comparing it with TB any more than I'm comparing it to DN or TSWLM. What I'm enjoying are the performances of Sean Connery, Klaus Maria Brandauer, Barbara Carrera, Bernie Casey, Kim Basinger, Edward Fox, Max von Sydow, Rowan Atkinson etc. I'm enjoying Nice Casino, a Luxury Yacht and a decent car chase.
The theme song, not so much, and the underwater action has the same inherent shorcomings as in TB (in terms appearing slow, ponderous and clumsy)
I agree. Except for the fact that the names Domino and Largo reappear, NSNA is no more a remake of TB than MR is of TSWLM, or even maybe AVTAK of GF.
@FoxRox
Of the Brosnan films, you mean? Or the Bonds in general?
All the films, in the "Bond movie ranking (Simple list, no details)" thread. I figure from how you put it here, your Brosnan ranking would be GE > TND > DAD > TWINE.
That is correct. But I struggle with the big list. There are 10 films I want to squeeze in a top 5, and I hate putting the bottom ones at the bottom, if you know what I mean. My ranking also depends on whether I need to work from least favorite to favorite, or from worst to best. Lastly, I'm sure I'd be making enemies over where I'd put CR67. 🤭
Very understandable. Let me know if you do end up ever doing that anyway, I'd love to see your ranking!
It's Brosnan's best movie in my opinion. It's not a very original film but it's fun and it suits him best.
As you all know, I never considered GE to be that good. I mean, GE wasn't John Le Carré either but it is less fun. I never understood the appeal of this movie. It must be a generational thing.
TWINE is boring and DAD is another fun movie but with quite a few questionable things.
I think in the end it is TND that manages to be what it aims to be.