Does NO TIME TO DIE have the best ending in the franchise?

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  • edited June 2024 Posts: 5,407
    I like both, but out of the two I think SF’s the better song for sure. That said CR needed to open with YKMN - a fast paced rock tune with brazenly masculine vocals. And of course SF needed to open with that mysterious but dramatic ballad (I’ve read somewhere that Adele wanted the song to sound on the one hand like a sort of funeral song but one which didn’t have that sense of finality to it/had that Bondian twist to it. It’s actually crazy how much that comes across in the actual song and how fitting it is for the film).
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,677
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    For me, YKMN is the best. I'll never forget the electric feeling the song and CR's gunbarrel sequence gave me, the very first time I watched the film.

    I agree. YKMN and the amazing Kleinman titles go hand-in-hand. One elevates the other.

    Exactly. The two are so much in sync!

    To be frank, I usually get that impression. AWTD is not a particularly good song in my opinion ("bang bang bang bang") but along with the not-so-good-either opening titles, it creates an inviting effect that makes me want to stay nevertheless. I was never fond of Madonna's DAD ("analyse this this this this..."), but somehow Kleinman found the proper visuals to "vibe" with the song.

    Yeah. I agree. There isn't an entirely bad Bond song. Just some better than others. Surprisingly, with time, I have come to really like AWTD. I think it's a slight rip-off of YKMN, especially the opening few seconds. I have never hated DAD, it's a nice song...just not Bondian enough for Bond. Its few seconds are quite Bondian and haunting, though. But yeah, Kleinman knows how to sync music and visuals. Albeit coming from commercials/music videos, it helps him understand music and visuals a lot.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited June 2024 Posts: 3,282
    I thought YKMN was absolutely the right song for CR, just as Skyfall was for SF and No Time To Die for NTTD. I'm also one of those four people who actually liked WOTW and I've sort of reached an accomodation with AWTD - I'd actually miss it if that cheapo, spidery fuzz guitar line didn't come in after Craig's opening line.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,796
    I really enjoy Skyfall, just wish it hadn't have influenced the following two songs
  • Posts: 8,300
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    For me, YKMN is the best. I'll never forget the electric feeling the song and CR's gunbarrel sequence gave me, the very first time I watched the film.

    I agree. YKMN and the amazing Kleinman titles go hand-in-hand. One elevates the other.

    Exactly. The two are so much in sync!

    To be frank, I usually get that impression. AWTD is not a particularly good song in my opinion ("bang bang bang bang") but along with the not-so-good-either opening titles, it creates an inviting effect that makes me want to stay nevertheless. I was never fond of Madonna's DAD ("analyse this this this this..."), but somehow Kleinman found the proper visuals to "vibe" with the song.

    Have to say I really liked the titles sequence for QoS. Think it gave Danny Kleinman a run for his money, and I much prefer them to SF titles!
  • Posts: 2,198
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @mtm - Dad rock. You make me laugh.

    Sure. Regardless, (YKMN) isn't really a proper rock song; it's all a bit cheesy and the unenthusiastic vocal... makes it all very MOR.

    You are hilarious.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,691
    @mtm
    I know we are debating taste here, but that's a bit strong IMO. "Unenthusiastic vocal" is the opposite from where I'm at. Sure, it's no hard rock or metal, but YKMN is a pretty good, solid rock song in my book. And what exactly is cheesy about it?
  • SimonSimon Keeping The British End Up...
    edited June 2024 Posts: 165
    mtm wrote: »
    it [YKMN] isn't really a proper rock song; it's all a bit cheesy and the unenthusiastic vocal makes it all very MOR.

    mtm wrote: »
    AWTD is far more of a proper rock song


    Musical taste and how different people hear things may be just about the most subjective thing going, but I am genuinely interested on how these two remarks can tally up??? If cheesy and unenthusiastic is an offence committed by YKMN, then surely that automatically consigns AWTD to being inferior???

    AWTD, like QoS, grew on me over time, but of the Craig era films, YKMN is the only one that actually gets me amped up for the film - the others, except for NTTD, are good-to-average, but given the tone of the film as a whole, the PTS, etc, YKMN just nailed it. I nearly always skip the opening titles. I always watch the CR one.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,772
    Simon wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    it [YKMN] isn't really a proper rock song; it's all a bit cheesy and the unenthusiastic vocal makes it all very MOR.

    mtm wrote: »
    AWTD is far more of a proper rock song


    Musical taste and how different people hear things may be just about the most subjective thing going, but I am genuinely interested on how these two remarks can tally up??? If cheesy and unenthusiastic is an offence committed by YKMN, then surely that automatically consigns AWTD to being inferior???

    AWTD, like QoS, grew on me over time, but of the Craig era films, YKMN is the only one that actually gets me amped up for the film - the others, except for NTTD, are good-to-average, but given the tone of the film as a whole, the PTS, etc, YKMN just nailed it. I nearly always skip the opening titles. I always watch the CR one.

    Interesting. For me, the tone of NTTD matches precisely where Bond/the song is in the film, unlike, say WOTW.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,677
    I still want an official Goldfrapp Bond theme, though. A whole lot of their songs are simply unofficial Bond themes. I read somewhere that they were all set to work with David Arnold, when it was thought that Brosnan was returning for a fifth Bond film. But they weren't contacted anymore, because they were told that the producers were going for a whole new direction with James Bond.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited June 2024 Posts: 15,175
    I still want an official Goldfrapp Bond theme, though. A whole lot of their songs are simply unofficial Bond themes. I read somewhere that they were all set to work with David Arnold, when it was thought that Brosnan was returning for a fifth Bond film. But they weren't contacted anymore, because they were told that the producers were going for a whole new direction with James Bond.
    Goldfrapp are so good. Hadn't heard of the Bond connection. Need to familiarize myself more with their albums and not just the singles though. Twist is right up there (straight up).
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,677
    QBranch wrote: »
    I still want an official Goldfrapp Bond theme, though. A whole lot of their songs are simply unofficial Bond themes. I read somewhere that they were all set to work with David Arnold, when it was thought that Brosnan was returning for a fifth Bond film. But they weren't contacted anymore, because they were told that the producers were going for a whole new direction with James Bond.
    Goldfrapp are so good. Hadn't heard of the Bond connection. Need to familiarize myself more with their albums and not just the singles though. Twist is right up there (straight up).

    Yesssh! Goldfrapp are really, really good. I'm listening to Pilots right now :)
  • Posts: 4,443
    I know some people hate AI - though it is capable of making some interesting art. I asked it to make some painterly photo of NTTD's ending. I think it really captures the melancholy of the final sequence and Craig's outstanding performance

    XWp09sV.png

    rJq1lGS.jpeg
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 588
    NTTD's ending is just awful. Trying to emulate comic book movies for 'gravitas' and sell Lashana Lynch as 007.

    Failed at both.

    None of the Craig films have good endings. Skyfall's nationalistic rambling possibly the worst whilst CR is easily the most disappointing.

    QOS has the best, just because it was a relief it had ended.
  • Posts: 895
    Brilliant and ballsy ending. The type that Hollywood usually bottles but every credit to EON and Dan for going with it.
  • Posts: 2,101
    It's a bad ending, with Bond dying at the hands of his own people and Madeleine stealing his car. ;)

    It wasn't a good day at work.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 598
    Does NO TIME TO DIE have the best ending in the franchise?

    No

    Not even the best ending of the Craig-Bond era

    CR has a great ending, it was just the previous recuperation and recovery, followed by Venice bits which went on too long after Le Chiffre had met his demise

    QoS has a decent ending, villains get their just desserts

    SF breaks James Bond rule #2 - James Bond does not fail in his mission (but at least he doesn't die)

    SP has a equivocal ending

    NTTD breaks James Bond rule #1- James Bond does not die
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,640
    I must've missed the rule book that specifies that James Bond can't die.

    I'm one of the idiots who loves the film, and the ending.

    I should really be banished...
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,497
    The ending was set up earlier in the Craig films as his motivation and duty. Why he does what he does. It dials back to Fleming and his family and the British experience during WWII, WWI. Sacrifice.

    So a tremendous and unexpected display of respect and love for the character. Well done by the producers and I'm very grateful.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 588
    The ending was set up earlier in the Craig films as his motivation and duty. Why he does what he does. It dials back to Fleming and his family and the British experience during WWII, WWI. Sacrifice.

    So a tremendous and unexpected display of respect and love for the character. Well done by the producers and I'm very grateful.

    Fleming's Bond never died. He was tortured, beaten, shot, poisoned, manipulated but never outright killed.

    This is because killing him kills the 1950s vision of Britain Fleming had in mind. It couldn't, and mustn't, ever die, no matter what.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,497
    I disagree of course, and likely I have different tastes and personal experience applied.

    Fleming died, and mortality was was on his mind as he approached death. He toyed with Bond's final death in the novels, rather than considering it impossible. NTTD was masterfully set up to honor the character's WWII origins, and timeless concepts of duty and sacrifice as with Valentine Fleming and many others. It continues hope for British values rather than extinguishing them for all time.

    When Bond returns on screen in 2027 or so things won't have changed. Once again, he never left.

  • edited June 15 Posts: 8,300
    I've been giving a lot of big new releases in the cinema a miss ( including M:I, even my service users weren't interested in seeing it!!) But I hope to see Danny Boyles '28 Years Later' movie, he's a really talented Director, but I still don't think he was a right fit for Bond! Interested to see that Hodge script though,
  • Posts: 1,156
    https://deadline.com/2025/06/danny-boyle-regret-walking-away-directing-james-bond-1236434301/

    "as actor Daniel Craig had negotiated that finale as part of his contract."

    If that's true, I wonder why it was so important to him, that the cinematic James Bond had to die?

  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 588
    I disagree of course, and likely I have different tastes and personal experience applied.

    Fleming died, and mortality was was on his mind as he approached death. He toyed with Bond's final death in the novels, rather than considering it impossible. NTTD was masterfully set up to honor the character's WWII origins, and timeless concepts of duty and sacrifice as with Valentine Fleming and many others. It continues hope for British values rather than extinguishing them for all time.

    When Bond returns on screen in 2027 or so things won't have changed. Once again, he never left.

    Fleming died but Bond endured. Not his Bond, thankfully, but the cinematic Bond.
    https://deadline.com/2025/06/danny-boyle-regret-walking-away-directing-james-bond-1236434301/

    "as actor Daniel Craig had negotiated that finale as part of his contract."

    If that's true, I wonder why it was so important to him, that the cinematic James Bond had to die?

    Interesting.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,640
    I disagree of course, and likely I have different tastes and personal experience applied.

    Fleming died, and mortality was was on his mind as he approached death. He toyed with Bond's final death in the novels, rather than considering it impossible. NTTD was masterfully set up to honor the character's WWII origins, and timeless concepts of duty and sacrifice as with Valentine Fleming and many others. It continues hope for British values rather than extinguishing them for all time.

    When Bond returns on screen in 2027 or so things won't have changed. Once again, he never left.

    Fleming died but Bond endured. Not his Bond, thankfully, but the cinematic Bond.
    https://deadline.com/2025/06/danny-boyle-regret-walking-away-directing-james-bond-1236434301/

    "as actor Daniel Craig had negotiated that finale as part of his contract."

    If that's true, I wonder why it was so important to him, that the cinematic James Bond had to die?

    Interesting.

    Obviously for nefarious reasons. He so clearly hated this role he played for 15 years that he really wanted to stick it to the fans. Specifically the fans who would never get over the idea that their hero could die on screen.

    (I’ve never heard of an actor putting in their contract that the character that s/he was playing must die. More realistically, this conclusion was a collective effort. The death of James Bond had to work for all creatives, from the financiers (MGM), to the producers and the distributors (as they had to market and sell the product). I’ve repeated this over and over like a broken record, so might as well try this another time (the definition of madness, I know, but this IS how the film industry works. The shooting script has to be greenlit by all producers, from financiers to distributors. If they didn’t think killing Bond was a good idea, and that they couldn’t sell such a film to the worldwide market, they wouldn’t do it …)).
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,740
    I don't like it. I don't hate it either. I've just come to terms with it. I really wanted to watch it today for Father's Day but all of my hdmi ports on my big screen are broken and it's not free on streaming anymore
  • The thing is, where does the power go when you realise that there will just be another film in a few years?

    I don't think I am 100% anti Bond's death. I can recognise that it is realistically a part of the character is that he will always continue but there are ways that they could have done it to have more impact.

    For example, I have a lot of logical qualms with Safin, his plans, the missile, and all of that. Beyond just that, there's the feeling that Bond's death is pointless; the plan had been already foiled, there are no lives saved (beyond a recently introduced family) and there's no struggle from Bond to try and stay alive.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited June 16 Posts: 598
    Fleming died, and mortality was was on his mind as he approached death. He toyed with Bond's final death in the novels, rather than considering it impossible.

    Not impossible, just unacceptable

    Fleming created James Bond, so he has the right to kill him off if he likes... but he chose not to, so who is anyone else to go against his decision?

    Of course, Conan Doyle did kill off Sherlock Holmes in 1893, and later recanted in 1903, due to public demand, but still his decision to make.
    Danny Boyle - "as actor Daniel Craig had negotiated that finale as part of his contract."

    If that's true, I wonder why it was so important to him, that the cinematic James Bond had to die?

    Monumental vanity or selfishness?

    Was it in order to be considered an avant-guarde disrupter and iconoclast, and shock the audience by going against the established conventions?

    Or did he want to kill off the character for the "infamy" of being the first to do so, and to prevent being pestered about returning?

    On the other hand, perhaps it's just another symptom of "Game of Thrones" syndrome, for want of a better phrase, the current fashion, in both movies and television, to insist on killing off an established character from an earlier edition in a later edition. It's not a new trick, but in recent times it has been overused to the point where it has become a predictable cliche, rather than a surprise twist.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 16 Posts: 2,677
    The thing is, where does the power go when you realise that there will just be another film in a few years?

    I don't think I am 100% anti Bond's death. I can recognise that it is realistically a part of the character is that he will always continue but there are ways that they could have done it to have more impact.

    For example, I have a lot of logical qualms with Safin, his plans, the missile, and all of that. Beyond just that, there's the feeling that Bond's death is pointless; the plan had been already foiled, there are no lives saved (beyond a recently introduced family) and there's no struggle from Bond to try and stay alive.

    My sentiments exactly @Reflsin2bourbons I'm not a fan of Bond dying. But then again, since this is a film Bond dies, they should have gone all out to make it dark and unique. Also like you said, those logical qualms are way too much. Plus, too many jokes in NTTD...and a lot of them aren't funny.

    Bond's death should be felt more than Tracy & M's death. But sadly, it isn't so for me. Sometimes I try to see the emotions fans say they feel in NTTD. It just isn't there for me, not because I don't have feelings, but the film didn't convince me.

    Also, on the plane towards Safin's island, Bond and Q are joking. Isn't Bond supposed to be pensive and reflective, because his family are in the hands of a thought-to-be dangerous man? There are still jokes in Safin's island. I don't know, it seems they thought more about Bond's death, without paying full attention to the script. The spirit of the opening Norway scene & the Matera sequence should have stayed on throughout the film.
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