Where does Bond go after Craig?

1744745746748750

Comments

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 3 Posts: 17,940
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    It’s the Daily Mail so I’m expecting very little in there. I presume it doesn’t come out with anything too mad or anything that hasn’t been rumoured in the past few months?

    I’ve always said Bond should be set in the present though (I feel setting a Bond film in the 60s is an admission the character can no longer be done in a modern setting, which I just don’t think has ever been true). That said we’ve had an Australian and Irish Bond so the ‘British’ rule isn’t as fixed in my opinion. But it’s ideal.

    Just click it and read it, jesus.

    It says Cuaron is in talks for two Bond films.

    I still think that the next two Bond films could be filmed back to back. They could learn from EON's mistake made from CR to QOS, or SP to NTTD. Every Bond actor's second film came no more than two years after their first. Matthew Field is just guessing, and that's fine. Also, I imagine that IFP might try to fix a relationship with Amazon, (originally a book publisher) to help them get better advertising campaigns for future Bond books. EON didn't help them out as much as they arguably could have.

    What do you mean about ad campaigns? Why would Amazon help them?
    I think making two films back to back is a bit too ambitious, and I’m not sure the latest Mission Impossibles are a very appetising example: they started making those over five years ago and the second is only about to come out, they must be exhausted.
  • edited May 3 Posts: 5,148
    Yeah, I’m not sure what the IFP/Amazon thing was about…. Maybe there’s an idea there that if Amazon want to pursue spin offs they could use some of IFP’s properties in exchange for advertising? Personally I’d say beyond Fleming and perhaps CS Amazon should take EON’s lead and keep the films at arm’s length from the continuation literary Bond world.

    Agreed about back to back films too. I don’t think it ever works out great in practice, and each Bond film I think should be its own adventure/crafted as its own thing even if there are story overlaps with the previous one.
  • Posts: 121
    Two films; one Bond. At least there'll be enough Space.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,940
    007HallY wrote: »
    Agreed about back to back films too. I don’t think it ever works out great in practice, and each Bond film I think should be its own adventure/crafted as its own thing even if there are story overlaps with the previous one.

    Yes I like that every time they make a Bond film they pour everything they've got into it, they don't hold stuff back (unless it's something which gets chopped out and doesn't fit into this one).
  • Posts: 2,182
    An interesting M could be Mark Rylance.
  • edited May 5 Posts: 1,915
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    It’s the Daily Mail so I’m expecting very little in there. I presume it doesn’t come out with anything too mad or anything that hasn’t been rumoured in the past few months?

    I’ve always said Bond should be set in the present though (I feel setting a Bond film in the 60s is an admission the character can no longer be done in a modern setting, which I just don’t think has ever been true). That said we’ve had an Australian and Irish Bond so the ‘British’ rule isn’t as fixed in my opinion. But it’s ideal.

    Just click it and read it, jesus.

    It says Cuaron is in talks for two Bond films.

    I still think that the next two Bond films could be filmed back to back. They could learn from EON's mistake made from CR to QOS, or SP to NTTD. Every Bond actor's second film came no more than two years after their first. Matthew Field is just guessing, and that's fine. Also, I imagine that IFP might try to fix a relationship with Amazon, (originally a book publisher) to help them get better advertising campaigns for future Bond books. EON didn't help them out as much as they arguably could have.

    Mission Impossible did that and it didn't work so well.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,770
    I think two films could have worked for Spectre, had it been planned beforehand and had a better script/production.

    You could have Bond defeat the villian in SP, then find the Spectre ring at the end of the film, which would lead him on the path of Spectre and Blofeld in the follow up.
    You'd have to name SP something else I suppose

    Quantum Of Solace and Spectre are still the biggest missed opportunities in the series in my eyes.
  • Posts: 6
    I'd like to see Jared Harris in the cast if possible.
  • edited May 5 Posts: 1,133
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Quantum Of Solace and Spectre are still the biggest missed opportunities in the series in my eyes.

    I found a David Arnold playlist on Spotify this afternoon, and I was enjoying it as I was reading. 'The Name's Bond' from the CR soundtrack came on, and it's superb, the way the tension mounts and the main theme comes in like a brick through a window a few minutes in. I'm sure people (like me), who watched that scene in the cinema, will remember it.
    We all felt that Bond was back, and the future for the movie franchise looked, well, amazing. When those credits rolled, there wasn't a single person in the audience who wasn't up for seeing the next Bond film, like, now!
    Hard to believe it'll soon be 20 years ago. And the series, for me, never really delivered on that promise of those last moments of CR.

    I agree, SPECTRE would have been great as a two-parter, giving Blofeld a chance to build his evil presence. And the final scene of SPECTRE, with Bond driving off in the DB5 should obviously have been the final scene of Craig's tenure, rather than that debacle of NTTD. And QoS, in my ideal world, would have been simply made better. Made right, without the daft milli-second editing and unexplainable plot. So Craig could still have 'had his five', so to speak.

    I do think though, that the Craig era was mostly a success.

  • Posts: 874
    Some of us actually enjoy Spectre and NTTD
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited May 6 Posts: 2,533
    For me, I prefer Spectre to NTTD. Mr. Hinx is a better villain than Primo, Blofeld & Safin combined. Spectre with all its problems, have moments you worry for Bond. I don't feel that danger in NTTD, apart from the opening Norway attack and the Matera sequence.
    NTTD is a Bond film, so devoid of Bondian danger and it shouldn't be so.
  • edited May 6 Posts: 1,133
    Some of us actually enjoy Spectre and NTTD

    I enjoy SPECTRE too.
    For me, I prefer Spectre to NTTD. Mr. Hinx is a better villain than Primo, Blofeld & Safin combined. Spectre with all its problems, have moments you worry for Bond. I don't feel that danger in NTTD, apart from the opening Norway attack and the Matera sequence.
    NTTD is a Bond film, so devoid of Bondian danger and it shouldn't be so.

    It's actually hard for me to imagine someone who's an aficionado of the James Bond movie franchise, preferring NTTD to SP.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,610
    It's actually hard for me to imagine someone who's an aficionado of the James Bond movie franchise, preferring NTTD to SP.

    Why is that?
  • Posts: 2,518
    I prefer NTTD to SP. I also consider myself an aficionado.
  • Posts: 1,133
    It's actually hard for me to imagine someone who's an aficionado of the James Bond movie franchise, preferring NTTD to SP.

    Why is that?

    Because, in my opinion, Spectre delivers more traditional Bond movie thrills and cinematic Bondian satisfaction than NTTD, which I find misguided, uneven and, to be blunt, not very respectful to the original concept of James Bond, as envisioned by his creator.
    And please note that, all this is my opinion, and at no time have I said that people shouldn't like NTTD better, or that anyone is less of a Bond fan for liking it better. I've really tried to word it carefully.

    Not that that'll stop people on here from giving me short shrift, eh?

  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 147
    Some of us actually enjoy Spectre and NTTD

    I enjoy SPECTRE too.
    For me, I prefer Spectre to NTTD. Mr. Hinx is a better villain than Primo, Blofeld & Safin combined. Spectre with all its problems, have moments you worry for Bond. I don't feel that danger in NTTD, apart from the opening Norway attack and the Matera sequence.
    NTTD is a Bond film, so devoid of Bondian danger and it shouldn't be so.

    It's actually hard for me to imagine someone who's an aficionado of the James Bond movie franchise, preferring NTTD to SP.

    I am a James Bond aficionado, and I prefer NTTD to SP.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,610
    It's actually hard for me to imagine someone who's an aficionado of the James Bond movie franchise, preferring NTTD to SP.

    Why is that?

    Because, in my opinion, Spectre delivers more traditional Bond movie thrills and cinematic Bondian satisfaction than NTTD, which I find misguided, uneven and, to be blunt, not very respectful to the original concept of James Bond, as envisioned by his creator.
    And please note that, all this is my opinion, and at no time have I said that people shouldn't like NTTD better, or that anyone is less of a Bond fan for liking it better. I've really tried to word it carefully.

    Not that that'll stop people on here from giving me short shrift, eh?

    Thanks for the clarification. It almost sounded like you were intimating that liking NTTD more than SP made you less an “aficionado”, which is why I asked if you could elaborate. We all have our own opinions on what constitutes a James Bond film, or at least what we want out of a Bond film. Like how QOS was the first to not have Bond sleep with the leading lady of the film, and to some that made it less of a James Bond film, but that’s only a small number compared to how many felt about NTTD’s choices.
  • edited May 7 Posts: 1,133
    Thanks for the clarification. It almost sounded like you were intimating that liking NTTD more than SP made you less an “aficionado”, which is why I asked if you could elaborate.

    In the seventies, Frank Sinatra made a full-on disco single. Sinatra was one of the greatest proponents of orchestrated 'big band' era music, and many Sinatra fans were appalled at the disco single. It broke with tradition. Yet, I'm sure there were Sinatra fans who actually enjoyed the single, and would say "it's a brave diversion. Why should we keep listening to the same formula of big band swing and orchestrated ballads?".
    You could make up loads of similar comparisons in pop culture, couldn't you? Situations where a franchise or a 'brand' breaks the formula, and some people are on board with the new direction, and some hate it.
    So when I say I can't understand an aficionado of the James Bond movie series liking NTTD more than SPECTRE, it's the same as me not understanding why anyone who loved Sinatra's brand of music, would happily embrace the disco single, and even prefer it to the previous versions of the songs used for the disco 45. That's not to say they shouldn't like it, or are any less of a Sinatra fan for liking it better. It's just that the musical style was quite far removed from the initial genre.
    No Time to Die works as a final CraigBond film. I can see that. Watching the five CraigBond films through, they work as a series, and I can understand how people would accept the movie within the 'reboot' (god, I hate that word) era. But for me, the movie takes too many liberties with the concept of James Bond, to sit comfortably with the rest of the movies in the series. SPECTRE might well be an inferior movie to NTTD, artistically. But the whole deal with killing Felix, killing Blofeld, making Bond a dad, and killing James Bond isn't what I want, no more than I want to hear Old Blue Eyes singing to synth drums with a four-on-the-floor drum beat, in a spandex jumpsuit and afro.
  • edited May 7 Posts: 1,915
    Fans aren't that open-minded; they just like Craig's Bond.

    Just look at the fear surrounding Amazon.
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 147
    But the whole deal with killing Felix, killing Blofeld, making Bond a dad, and killing James Bond isn't what I want

    Two of these things happened in Fleming (and one nearly happened twice, though admittedly even Fleming never went that far).
  • Posts: 1,133
    Two of these things happened in Fleming (and one nearly happened twice, though admittedly even Fleming never went that far).

    We never even find out if Kissy went full-term, so to say he was a dad in the books is stretching it a bit.
    And as for James Bond nearly dying in the books. Well, they're James Bond books. He nearly dies all the time, doesn't he? That's part of the whole deal.

  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,533
    Two of these things happened in Fleming (and one nearly happened twice, though admittedly even Fleming never went that far).

    We never even find out if Kissy went full-term, so to say he was a dad in the books is stretching it a bit.
    And as for James Bond nearly dying in the books. Well, they're James Bond books. He nearly dies all the time, doesn't he? That's part of the whole deal.

    They should have just adapted YOLT fully. Add more action. Then show us that Samurai-Blofeld v Bond's fight for the very first time on screen. That's the kind of thing that even suits Craig's Bond.
  • edited May 7 Posts: 1,133
    There's a school of thought that, the first great miss-step of the movie franchise, was 'doing YOLT before OHMSS and changing it so much'.
  • edited May 7 Posts: 5,148
    To be fair I don't think YOLT is a book that can ever be faithfully adapted into a film. Even if it'd come after OHMSS (and you really need the ending of that book in order to faithfully adapt YOLT) a lot of the middle is Bond and Tanaka wandering around a fictionalised Japan. You'd need to inject a lot more into the story than just 'Bond needs to negotiate to get a McGuffin' before we get to the Shatterhand stuff. The climax with Blofeld is pretty good (although very talky, and to some extent there's an element of subversion in the fact that we don't get a DN or MR-esque reveal that the villain's got something bigger planned. He's literally just gone barking mad). The last section with the amnesia I don't think would play out very well (it's a bit of a cliche to get hit on the head and lose your memory, and in all honesty it was when Fleming wrote it, even if he puts his own unique spin on it).

    It's a bit of a paradox, but there's so much in YOLT that has and still could be adapted. And yet I don't think it's possible to adapt it faithfully. It's a similar case with Fleming's MR nowadays.
  • Posts: 1,133
    I remember re-reading Casino Royale a few years ago, and being surprised how much of it made it to screen, all those years later.
    So if we're looking at a way to put a Fleming novel on-screen these days, 2006's Casino Royale is an excellent example of how it can be done successfully. Keeping true to the book, but adding quality extra bits, and updating it sensitively and classily.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 7 Posts: 17,940
    Two of these things happened in Fleming (and one nearly happened twice, though admittedly even Fleming never went that far).

    We never even find out if Kissy went full-term, so to say he was a dad in the books is stretching it a bit.

    That's a slightly strange way of trying to escape that! I guess she might have been run over the next day, or had a fatal allergic reaction from a wasp sting, but this is adding stuff which isn't in the book in order to get away from what the book is saying: the way the book presents it to us, she's having his baby.
    And as for James Bond nearly dying in the books. Well, they're James Bond books. He nearly dies all the time, doesn't he? That's part of the whole deal.

    A bit like saying Holmes doesn't die at Reichenbach: he does die, the writer just changed his mind later.
  • Posts: 5,148
    I remember re-reading Casino Royale a few years ago, and being surprised how much of it made it to screen, all those years later.
    So if we're looking at a way to put a Fleming novel on-screen these days, 2006's Casino Royale is an excellent example of how it can be done successfully. Keeping true to the book, but adding quality extra bits, and updating it sensitively and classily.

    I think CR was adapted at the right time. They could get away with adding that original first half with a globe trotting Bond, big action sequences, secondary Bond girls etc because that's what was more or less expected from a Bond film (I don't think a more stripped back version only adapting the novel would have quite been as gripping). It gave them creative freedom to add more. Some of the book's darker elements could actually be included as well, whereas in other planned, but unmade versions of the novel in the 50s/60s (or even later) you couldn't really have things like the torture scene. For a Bond film it's a really unique premise as well with Bond being sent to out-gamble a villain (let's be honest, as good as the MR novel is, there's little in the actual meat of the story that we haven't seen in Bond film before). I'd also say the film wisely makes changes to Bond's character compared to that first Fleming novel (he's nowhere near as humorous or brash as Craig's is, and I don't think any viewers really want a rant from an onscreen Bond about how outraged he is at a woman coming to assist him).

    I think if CR shows that a Fleming novel can be adapted today, there's still an awful lot of liberties and changes it'll have to make.
  • edited May 7 Posts: 1,133
    mtm wrote: »
    Two of these things happened in Fleming (and one nearly happened twice, though admittedly even Fleming never went that far).

    We never even find out if Kissy went full-term, so to say he was a dad in the books is stretching it a bit.

    That's a slightly strange way of trying to escape that! I guess she might have been run over the next day, or had a fatal allergic reaction from a wasp sting, but this is adding stuff which isn't in the book in order to get away from what the book is saying: the way the book presents it to us, she's having his baby.
    And as for James Bond nearly dying in the books. Well, they're James Bond books. He nearly dies all the time, doesn't he? That's part of the whole deal.

    A bit like saying Holmes doesn't die at Reichenbach: he does die, the writer just changed his mind later.

    I'll explain myself then.

    If I had a wife who is pregnant, I'm going to be a dad. I'm not a dad yet, though, am I?
    James Bond was never a dad in Ian Fleming's books, in the same way Daniel Craig was. I think you know that though, right? I mean, you can see the difference. James Bond doesn't become a father and meet his kid in the books. Please tell me you can see that difference.
    And James Bond doesn't die in any of the Ian Fleming books either. I don't know why people keep saying he dies, (or "nearly dies"). Last time I read Golden Gun, he was still quite alive at the end.
  • edited May 7 Posts: 5,148
    It's different, no doubt. I do think NTTD has its roots in Fleming and is actually surprisingly deferential in how it adapts many of those ideas. But like any Bond film it's adapting those threads to its own ends as a film. As hinted we as fans can have very fixed ideas of what we want/expect from this character, and even outside of NTTD I'm sure that's very much been tested by EON's films!

    I can't say I personally think Bond should die in any story. But at the same time I can't completely ignore NTTD because of this view/preference, nor can I say that the film doesn't engage me. It has its flaws for me, but I think it's actually a good Bond movie, and it's fitting for the Craig era. Not much else I can say about it, at least without getting into existential discussions about what a Bond film/story should or shouldn't do! And let's be honest, that's only going to give us contradictory points.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 7 Posts: 17,940
    mtm wrote: »
    Two of these things happened in Fleming (and one nearly happened twice, though admittedly even Fleming never went that far).

    We never even find out if Kissy went full-term, so to say he was a dad in the books is stretching it a bit.

    That's a slightly strange way of trying to escape that! I guess she might have been run over the next day, or had a fatal allergic reaction from a wasp sting, but this is adding stuff which isn't in the book in order to get away from what the book is saying: the way the book presents it to us, she's having his baby.
    And as for James Bond nearly dying in the books. Well, they're James Bond books. He nearly dies all the time, doesn't he? That's part of the whole deal.

    A bit like saying Holmes doesn't die at Reichenbach: he does die, the writer just changed his mind later.

    I'll explain myself then.

    If I had a wife who is pregnant, I'm going to be a dad. I'm not a dad yet, though, am I?
    James Bond was never a dad in Ian Fleming's books, in the same way Daniel Craig was. I think you know that though, right? I mean, you can see the difference. James Bond doesn't become a father and meet his kid in the books. Please tell me you can see that difference.

    It's a difference, but a semantic one. Like if Fleming only ever wrote him arriving and leaving airports in different countries, but the films actually showed him on a plane, and I were to say that James Bond should never be seen on a plane.
    And James Bond doesn't die in any of the Ian Fleming books either. I don't know why people keep saying he dies, (or "nearly dies"). Last time I read Golden Gun, he was still quite alive at the end.

    Please tell me you can understand the point about Reichenbach.

    Look, it's fine, those things aren't to your taste and you don't like Bond doing them. But I'm glad they haven't been rigidly sticking only to what happened in the previous films: if they'd done that then we wouldn't have got LALD with its voodoo stuff, or, well, any of the times the series has innovated.
Sign In or Register to comment.