Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 1,970
    Periodically I see posts for Bond stories set in the real world of events. I am fine with a contemporary Bond in the current year, but real world events? For me real world events involve a great deal of suffering and tragedy by those who experience them. Bond might take down an evil general or organization, but does Bond do anything to resolve the plight of those impacted by conflict? Bond films at their best spin yarns that are slightly fantastic, they are not slice of life stories. It's one thing for a Bond film to acknowledge various crises throughout the world, quite another to use them as a setting for a film. I prefer escapism in my Bond films, not a reminder of challenging and often tragic world events. Do we need a Bond film set in Ukraine? Or Gaza? Anything a Bond film can bring to those situations? There is often a thin line between fiction and reality, but I prefer a Bond film not fictionalize what is best understood by actual news. I would much rather see a Bond film in the vein of Moonraker whereby a mega-billionaire who owns his own rocket company, say SPACE-TREK, plans to offer space trips to other billionaires only with the plan to blow them all up. References the real world, but total fictional escapism.



  • edited April 3 Posts: 577
    Guys, how would you feel about a big name novelist writing the screenplay of Bond 26? And I don't necessarily mean a novelist who has already written a Bond book.
    BMB007 wrote: »
    Someone who got hired by a legitimate publication, because he does legitimate work?

    And you have no idea which journalists currently working for tabloids will in the future get hired by "legitimate publications" because they do legitimate work.

    Also, you automatically dismissing everything published by tabloids means that you dimisssed all the legitimate reporting Baz did for the Daily Mail.
  • Posts: 348
    Guys, how would you feel about a big name novelist writing the screenplay of Bond 26? And I don't necessarily mean a novelist who has already written a Bond book.
    BMB007 wrote: »
    Someone who got hired by a legitimate publication, because he does legitimate work?

    And you have no idea which journalists currently working for tabloids will in the future get hired by "legitimate publications" because they do legitimate work.

    Also, you automatically dismissing everything published by tabloids means that you dimisssed all the legitimate reporting Baz did for the Daily Mail.

    We don't have to see into the future, we can just look at the work they're currently doing.
  • Posts: 577
    @M_Blaise in 2010: "What? The Daily Mail says that Naomie Harris is playing Moneypenny? Come on, it's the Daily Mail! What? Baz Bamigboye wrote the article? Baz Who?"

    Why do I feel like we are moving in circles?
  • Posts: 348
    @M_Blaise in 2010: "What? The Daily Mail says that Naomie Harris is playing Moneypenny? Come on, it's the Daily Mail! What? Baz Bamigboye wrote the article? Baz Who?"

    Why do I feel like we are moving in circles?

    You've decided that no one took Baz seriously for some reason, when it's actually been acknowledged that his absence hurts the credibility of the stories.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    Some musings on the theme of "total fictional escapism."

    However much desired, if done with a light touch and a degree of wit and verbal sophistication, I have to wonder if this is even possible anymore.

    Who would give it to us?

    Villeneuve? Nolan? Probably not ... a too heavy handed concentration on world building and visual sophistication, I'd guess.

    I think the Craig years did give us a strong degree of "escapism," just leavened by a fairly mild dose of the real world around us. And that was probably necessary to stay in touch with the audience of the day.

    Maybe even more so today.

    However dark and ultimately incomprehensible, we just know too much. Or think we do. The news is all around us. And there is no shelter from it ...

    Yet, while not a precise analogue, the Depression years in Hollywood during the 1930s gave the world Cary Grant, Irene Dunne, Kate Hepburn, the Screwball Comedy, and an ingenious host of directors and writers all trained in the art of light comedy.

    And Roger Moore himself was an inheritor of just such a tradition ... one where the lightness of a human touch was still valued and had not yet been forgotten.
  • Posts: 9,842


    Why cant we get this hell i would even take queen as the main theme artist
  • Posts: 1,970
    I've never been able to take Moore seriously as Bond because to me he never seemed to take himself seriously as Bond. The humor exhibited during his tenure was a little too broad for my liking. What didn't work for me worked for others. It's a matter of what one likes and expects of the Bond character. I do agree the next Bond can lighten up a bit. I prefer we don't get the visual gags which have been well documented.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    Feyador wrote: »
    Some musings on the theme of "total fictional escapism."

    However much desired, if done with a light touch and a degree of wit and verbal sophistication, I have to wonder if this is even possible anymore.

    Who would give it to us?

    Villeneuve? Nolan? Probably not ... a too heavy handed concentration on world building and visual sophistication, I'd guess.

    I think the Craig years did give us a strong degree of "escapism," just leavened by a fairly mild dose of the real world around us. And that was probably necessary to stay in touch with the audience of the day.

    Maybe even more so today.

    However dark and ultimately incomprehensible, we just know too much. Or think we do. The news is all around us. And there is no shelter from it ...

    Yet, while not a precise analogue, the Depression years in Hollywood during the 1930s gave the world Cary Grant, Irene Dunne, Kate Hepburn, the Screwball Comedy, and an ingenious host of directors and writers all trained in the art of light comedy.

    And Roger Moore himself was an inheritor of just such a tradition ... one where the lightness of a human touch was still valued and had not yet been forgotten.

    I will never buy into the idea that the audience has gone off a certain tone of film. It just doesn't make logical sense to me, what matters is how well you pull it off. That's true for any story, no matter how serious, or silly. If people will sit through "everything everywhere all at once" and not think it's too silly, they will sit through a classic style bond film just fine. Again, you have to pitch it right, but that's true of any type of story.
  • Posts: 1,970
    Even with Bond films I am not knocked out by, I am to sit through them all the way. It took three attempts for me to get through EEAAO and I thoroughly disliked it.

    As much as I like Craig as Bond, I have missed the wit, style, and charm that continue to make the Connery films the most enjoyable. As for the best: OHMSS & CR.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,156
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Even with Bond films I am not knocked out by, I am to sit through them all the way. It took three attempts for me to get through EEAAO and I thoroughly disliked it.

    As much as I like Craig as Bond, I have missed the wit, style, and charm that continue to make the Connery films the most enjoyable. As for the best: OHMSS & CR.

    What is EEAAO?
  • Posts: 577
    M_Blaise wrote: »
    @M_Blaise in 2010: "What? The Daily Mail says that Naomie Harris is playing Moneypenny? Come on, it's the Daily Mail! What? Baz Bamigboye wrote the article? Baz Who?"

    Why do I feel like we are moving in circles?

    You've decided that no one took Baz seriously for some reason, when it's actually been acknowledged that his absence hurts the credibility of the stories.

    I didn't decide it. There 100% was a time when no Bond fan took Baz seriously except for a couple of people including me.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,323
    I thought he was the one who said Bond 18 would be called Avatar / Aquator.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,127
    mtm wrote: »
    I thought he was the one who said Bond 18 would be called Avatar / Aquator.

    Good point @mtm
    To quote Bond in TND, “I never believe what I read in the newspaper anyway.”
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 933
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Even with Bond films I am not knocked out by, I am to sit through them all the way. It took three attempts for me to get through EEAAO and I thoroughly disliked it.

    As much as I like Craig as Bond, I have missed the wit, style, and charm that continue to make the Connery films the most enjoyable. As for the best: OHMSS & CR.

    What is EEAAO?

    Everything Everywhere All at Once, the alternate reality centred Michelle Yeoh film. I had to read back a few posts to work out what it was, I thought it was reference to a Bond film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,156
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Even with Bond films I am not knocked out by, I am to sit through them all the way. It took three attempts for me to get through EEAAO and I thoroughly disliked it.

    As much as I like Craig as Bond, I have missed the wit, style, and charm that continue to make the Connery films the most enjoyable. As for the best: OHMSS & CR.

    What is EEAAO?

    Everything Everywhere All at Once, the alternate reality centred Michelle Yeoh film. I had to read back a few posts to work out what it was, I thought it was reference to a Bond film.

    Ow, I failed to think of that one in this context. My bad. Thanks, @sandbagger1.
  • Posts: 1,970
    I am not enthusiastic about big name directors being possible candidates for the next Bond film. For me it's too much expectation. If Spielberg were asked to direct the next film, realistically what would be the expectation? The greatest James Bond film ever? Or something along the lines of Indiana James?

    I am one who has often opined for a return to the feel of the original films. One of the elements I believe that has been absent from Bond films for a long is weaving music from the opening titles into the soundtrack. When has a theme ever knocked you back in your seat like the opening horns of Goldfinger or created such a sense of place as the guitar licks for the underwater sequences in Thunderball? YKMN came pretty darn close but was barely used throughout CR. After CR, has any title song been anything but a bit dreary, despite the awards? When have we seen sets designs as interesting as those of Ken Adam? There's a flavor to those early films that hasn't been recaptured. Yes, Bond must change with the times, but there's a lot in those older films that created that unique Bond feel.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,982
    I think TLD & TND were the last Bond films where title songs/end title music really got into the score and the result was awesome. Yeah, CR comes close too.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 4 Posts: 16,323
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I am one who has often opined for a return to the feel of the original films. One of the elements I believe that has been absent from Bond films for a long is weaving music from the opening titles into the soundtrack. When has a theme ever knocked you back in your seat like the opening horns of Goldfinger or created such a sense of place as the guitar licks for the underwater sequences in Thunderball? YKMN came pretty darn close but was barely used throughout CR. After CR, has any title song been anything but a bit dreary, despite the awards? When have we seen sets designs as interesting as those of Ken Adam? There's a flavor to those early films that hasn't been recaptured. Yes, Bond must change with the times, but there's a lot in those older films that created that unique Bond feel.

    It's quite hard to be as talented as multiple award-winning John Barry and Sir Ken Adam- they were all-time greats. We can't really just expect them to magic up creatives who will be remembered as long as them.
    But equally if they do try and get super-talented directors or the best songwriters they can, folks accuse them of chasing Oscars instead of making pulpy adventure films like Cubby did. They can't win with the fans.
    Regardless we still got Daniel Craig, Sam Mendes, Sir Roger Deakins, Thomas Newman, Hans Zimmer etc. - these are big, impressive talents in film.
  • What about the chap who directed the Bob Odenkirk film Nobody as the director of the next film? His name is Ilya Naishuller. He's Russian.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Benny wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I thought he was the one who said Bond 18 would be called Avatar / Aquator.

    Good point @mtm
    To quote Bond in TND, “I never believe what I read in the newspaper anyway.”

    Yeah, and I’m still waiting for the new 007 to sign his contract by the end of the week— which was some time in March…

    Studios create fake X accounts to make glowing reviews for their productions and they plant “sources” to the rags (not official industry media), and that is what has happened here.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,323
    peter wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I thought he was the one who said Bond 18 would be called Avatar / Aquator.

    Good point @mtm
    To quote Bond in TND, “I never believe what I read in the newspaper anyway.”

    Yeah, and I’m still waiting for the new 007 to sign his contract by the end of the week— which was some time in March…

    Don't forget when his gunbarrel sequence was shown off to the world 13 months ago :))
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I thought he was the one who said Bond 18 would be called Avatar / Aquator.

    Good point @mtm
    To quote Bond in TND, “I never believe what I read in the newspaper anyway.”

    Yeah, and I’m still waiting for the new 007 to sign his contract by the end of the week— which was some time in March…

    Don't forget when his gunbarrel sequence was shown off to the world 13 months ago :))

    Thanks @mtm , and I think that must be around the time of his secret auditions? Auditions that involved no other actors, and, apparently, no readers for him to act against?

    😂 😆 😂
  • edited April 4 Posts: 9,842
    Into henry cavills loving and warm embrace

    Get him a good script a good director and sit back and watch the magic and at 40 he is the right age i am tired of the 20-30 something kids being 007 (craig lazenby and connery being the exception as they were amazing)

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,156
    @Risico007
    Who else played Bond that young? Only Connery, Lazenby and Craig started before 40.
  • Posts: 3,327
    peter wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I thought he was the one who said Bond 18 would be called Avatar / Aquator.

    Good point @mtm
    To quote Bond in TND, “I never believe what I read in the newspaper anyway.”

    Yeah, and I’m still waiting for the new 007 to sign his contract by the end of the week— which was some time in March…

    Me too. Should be any day now....

    Hide-the-Pain-Harold.jpg

  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 933
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I am one who has often opined for a return to the feel of the original films. One of the elements I believe that has been absent from Bond films for a long is weaving music from the opening titles into the soundtrack. When has a theme ever knocked you back in your seat like the opening horns of Goldfinger or created such a sense of place as the guitar licks for the underwater sequences in Thunderball? YKMN came pretty darn close but was barely used throughout CR. After CR, has any title song been anything but a bit dreary, despite the awards? When have we seen sets designs as interesting as those of Ken Adam? There's a flavor to those early films that hasn't been recaptured. Yes, Bond must change with the times, but there's a lot in those older films that created that unique Bond feel.

    It's quite hard to be as talented as multiple award-winning John Barry and Sir Ken Adam- they were all-time greats. We can't really just expect them to magic up creatives who will be remembered as long as them.
    I'm not sure weaving music from the title track into the soundtrack requires a genius; I suspect it has become more difficult because they have been hiring big names to write and perform the title track whilst the soundtrack composer works separately. I imagine they could make this work again if they wanted to (though admittedly sometimes the original artist chosen (eg. Radiohead) produces something deemed unsuitable and a replacement has to be rushed in which must cause practical issues), presumably they think it is more trouble than it's worth at the moment. I'm with CrabKey in that I think it really adds something to the film and I haven't noticed it in recent entries.
    mtm wrote: »
    But equally if they do try and get super-talented directors or the best songwriters they can, folks accuse them of chasing Oscars instead of making pulpy adventure films like Cubby did. They can't win with the fans.
    I'm not sure I've noticed people railing against hiring top songwriters, the usual complaint heard pertaining to the music is that there have been too many songs in a row that are atmospheric but low in energy, while they'd like a more up-tempo rock song thrown in occasionally. People have complained about Sam Smith, but that's more down to the quality of his song (I'm not sure how it got that Oscar, I find it very bland).

    I have seen people say they'd rather have a journeyman director rather than an auteur, usually because they feel the more-prominent director might take further out of its wheel-house than they'd like to see it go. This relates to the film series' identity, and that is what CrabKey is talking about: what make a Bond film feel like a Bond film? We see the producers struggling with just this issue all the time now, and the fan base is likewise divided.

    I would like the theme song integrated with the soundtrack more often, and I would like a bit more visual flair like those big Ken Adam sets (one of the things I like about NTTD is the Adam-style bad-guy base); a return to the 007 action theme occasionally would be nice too, as would some prominent horns in the music (I don't know enough about music to be technical, but I'm sure you know what I mean). Some people will think these things are old-fashioned and merely would serve to make the new film a pastiche. It's an ongoing argument. I think you've said you feel the last film didn't feel enough like a Bond film, that Fukunaga just wasn't right for Bond (if I'm confusing you with someone else I apologise). What is essential to the Bond identity, and what can be discarded? I'm guessing Eon are having this discussion right now.
  • Posts: 9,842
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @Risico007
    Who else played Bond that young? Only Connery, Lazenby and Craig started before 40.

    A lot of the names branded about now are in their late twenties early thirties… which is too young Cavill is the perfect age
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited April 5 Posts: 8,392
    mtm wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I am one who has often opined for a return to the feel of the original films. One of the elements I believe that has been absent from Bond films for a long is weaving music from the opening titles into the soundtrack. When has a theme ever knocked you back in your seat like the opening horns of Goldfinger or created such a sense of place as the guitar licks for the underwater sequences in Thunderball? YKMN came pretty darn close but was barely used throughout CR. After CR, has any title song been anything but a bit dreary, despite the awards? When have we seen sets designs as interesting as those of Ken Adam? There's a flavor to those early films that hasn't been recaptured. Yes, Bond must change with the times, but there's a lot in those older films that created that unique Bond feel.

    It's quite hard to be as talented as multiple award-winning John Barry and Sir Ken Adam- they were all-time greats. We can't really just expect them to magic up creatives who will be remembered as long as them.
    I'm not sure weaving music from the title track into the soundtrack requires a genius; I suspect it has become more difficult because they have been hiring big names to write and perform the title track whilst the soundtrack composer works separately. I imagine they could make this work again if they wanted to (though admittedly sometimes the original artist chosen (eg. Radiohead) produces something deemed unsuitable and a replacement has to be rushed in which must cause practical issues), presumably they think it is more trouble than it's worth at the moment. I'm with CrabKey in that I think it really adds something to the film and I haven't noticed it in recent entries.
    mtm wrote: »
    But equally if they do try and get super-talented directors or the best songwriters they can, folks accuse them of chasing Oscars instead of making pulpy adventure films like Cubby did. They can't win with the fans.
    I'm not sure I've noticed people railing against hiring top songwriters, the usual complaint heard pertaining to the music is that there have been too many songs in a row that are atmospheric but low in energy, while they'd like a more up-tempo rock song thrown in occasionally. People have complained about Sam Smith, but that's more down to the quality of his song (I'm not sure how it got that Oscar, I find it very bland).

    I have seen people say they'd rather have a journeyman director rather than an auteur, usually because they feel the more-prominent director might take further out of its wheel-house than they'd like to see it go. This relates to the film series' identity, and that is what CrabKey is talking about: what make a Bond film feel like a Bond film? We see the producers struggling with just this issue all the time now, and the fan base is likewise divided.

    I would like the theme song integrated with the soundtrack more often, and I would like a bit more visual flair like those big Ken Adam sets (one of the things I like about NTTD is the Adam-style bad-guy base); a return to the 007 action theme occasionally would be nice too, as would some prominent horns in the music (I don't know enough about music to be technical, but I'm sure you know what I mean). Some people will think these things are old-fashioned and merely would serve to make the new film a pastiche. It's an ongoing argument. I think you've said you feel the last film didn't feel enough like a Bond film, that Fukunaga just wasn't right for Bond (if I'm confusing you with someone else I apologise). What is essential to the Bond identity, and what can be discarded? I'm guessing Eon are having this discussion right now.

    Indeed, having the title song woven throughout the score is another one of the little bits of Bond film recieved wisdom which went unchallenged for 40 years. Also the "bond swell" part of the theme just preceding the kickoff of an action scene, once we're aware of the danger bond is about to encounter.

    In regards to the autuer/journeyman discussion, I think what people mean is should bond be made by highminded artists, who want to use the film as a platform to explore a "message", or skilled craftsman who merely wish to deliver the customary tension, mystery thrills and excitement you expect from Bond. Technically speaking Edgar Wright falls into the category of an autuer, it just so happens that his sensibilities are much aligned with genre cinema conventions. Say what you like about Martin Campbell as a director, but the man has the right sensibilities for Bond, and that's what counts.
  • edited April 5 Posts: 1,316
    They can make a pastiche but there is a difference between Guy Ritchie or Edgar Wright and
    some random guy.
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