Mission: Impossible - films and tv series

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  • edited August 2023 Posts: 4,602
    @Univex Yes, this relates to my point, computers can't be cool or psychopathic. Computers are dull, they don't illicit emotion. When they shut down the Entity in DR2 - it won't be angry, frustrated, vengeful etc etc. You can't look it in the eye and deliver a dry/witty line. How do you handle this as a writer? how do you connect with the audience ?
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T.
    Posts: 7,014
    When the fire is killing people in The Towering Inferno, it's not angry, frustrated, vengeful etc etc., and I'm still compelled by what's happening.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,903
    mattjoes wrote: »
    When the fire is killing people in The Towering Inferno, it's not angry, frustrated, vengeful etc etc., and I'm still compelled by what's happening.

    This. Plus, we have no idea what's in store for Part 2 yet, past some miscellaneous footage cut out of the trailers from the first part that could appear later and some of the stunts we've seen Cruise filming.

    I'm personally a huge fan of what they managed with the Entity here. The idea that it's able to run endless computations in seconds to predict the probability of future actions, thereby influencing the villains and heroes alike in the process, is masterful to me.
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 4,602
    Fair comment but MI (or Bond) are not disaster movies. It's a weakness of many disaster movies that you don't have the contrast between hero and villain. (they lack the moral battle/contrast) Towering Inferno tried to insert a human into this via the corrupt engineer who cut corners re fire safety regs. (ie the motivation was greed ) Even Thunderbirds introduced a villain to give depth/interest to one rescue after another.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T.
    edited August 2023 Posts: 7,014
    patb wrote: »
    Fair comment but MI (or Bond) are not disaster movies.
    Much like the Entity, I expected this comment. I guess I'm not that interested in evaluating the film from a perspective of genre, at least in this case.

    patb wrote: »
    It's a weakness of many disaster movies that you don't have the contrast between hero and villain. (they lack the moral battle/contrast)
    Not every film needs a hero and a villain in the traditional sense. Usually, what we expect is for the protagonist to have to face obstacles to face. In a disaster film, the main obstacle is the disaster, and secondary obstacles might include people who are not helping in the catastrophe, or are out to save themselves at the expense of everyone else. On a more psychological level, another obstacle might be a character's own limitations, doubts or faults, like in The Poseidon Adventure. As far as I'm concerned, disaster films can work well within these parameters.

    patb wrote: »
    Towering Inferno tried to insert a human into this via the corrupt engineer who cut corners re fire safety regs. (ie the motivation was greed ) Even Thunderbirds introduced a villain to give depth/interest to one rescue after another.
    So did Dead Reckoning, with Esai Morales. This works by complementing the "impersonal villain", but it doesn't imply said villain is deficient, or a poor idea on which to build a story.
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 4,602
    Of interest?

    https://www.listchallenges.com/30-most-evil-movie-computers

    PS with TI, the corrupt engineer and his actions created the fire. Our heroes identify the villain and protect victims from the consequences of his actions (ie fire). With DR, the creator of the Entity is not the villain. The Entity is the villain (and as with God analogies), who, then created the Entity ? Are they not the villain ? computer code does not just exist. Humans create code and have motivations for doing so. (T2 dealt with this issue very well IMHO) I know I'm being picky, dont get me wrong, these are small but interesting things. Love the whole MI series
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,211
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    When the fire is killing people in The Towering Inferno, it's not angry, frustrated, vengeful etc etc., and I'm still compelled by what's happening.

    This. Plus, we have no idea what's in store for Part 2 yet, past some miscellaneous footage cut out of the trailers from the first part that could appear later and some of the stunts we've seen Cruise filming.

    I'm personally a huge fan of what they managed with the Entity here. The idea that it's able to run endless computations in seconds to predict the probability of future actions, thereby influencing the villains and heroes alike in the process, is masterful to me.

    Yeah I think it works; I don't have any massive issues with it. I suppose the one aspect which gives me slight pause is that I like M:I to be really hi-tech - they have all of the clever gadgets, and in a different way to Bond. Bond has stuff which comes in useful, and more often than not is a weapon in disguise, whereas the IMF have items which are used for very precise uses and nothing else (like those things which allow Benji to change the door numbers in the Burj- Bond wouldn't exactly be carrying those around just in case!). So if anything we've seen the Entity will force them to go low tech, with the biplanes etc. and although I guess that's a new avenue to take M:I down (and I know Cruise and McQ love their analogue tech) I kind of think the gadgets and computers and all that are part of the MI aesthetic so I hope it doesn't feel less MI for losing them.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,498
    Dutch Boxoffice after 3 weaks: $5,250,764. The movie did 1,5 in weak 3 that's better then second weak. Stil good with 136 screens. Fallout did $5,398,244 but with 206 screens. Total worldwide on this moment: $455,722,770.
  • willowlovewillowlove Kent, WA, USA
    Posts: 20
    Variety's movie reviewer thinks the series may need its own reckoning.

    https://variety.com/2023/film/columns/mission-impossible-series-future-dead-reckoning-espionage-1235688839/
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 335
    It's official. As of summer 2023 James Bond is a more popular film franchise than Indiana Jones and Mission Impossible. The last Bond film, Die Another Day, grossed significantly more than IJ 5 and MI 7.

    Bond continues to remain a major attraction. ;)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,211
    willowlove wrote: »

    I think the writer overstates it slightly, but I don’t entirely disagree. Considering that McQ began directing them with Rogue Nation, which had the peerless opera sequence (made not just of action, but tension and cleverness with a wonderfully intelligent climax) and ended on a superbly satisfying trick rather than big action climax, I’m perhaps a little disappointed that he’s moved to stringing along action scenes.
    He’s been saying recently that he feels there are only three things a Mission movie must have, and those are: the theme music/title sequence; a mission briefing for Ethan; a mask gag. And I disagree: I think you need a heist, a plan. M:I does require a bit of cleverness in there, and I’d happily trade the mask gag for that.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,903
    I'm an action junkie so I have no complaints in that regard but the series has definitely been lacking in the heist department, something that can stand on its own as an exciting, unparalleled stunt (like the Burj Khalifa scaling in GP) but still serve a purpose to the underlying mission.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,150
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I'm an action junkie so I have no complaints in that regard but the series has definitely been lacking in the heist department, something that can stand on its own as an exciting, unparalleled stunt (like the Burj Khalifa scaling in GP) but still serve a purpose to the underlying mission.

    I recently revisited GHOST PROTOCOL. Man, what a breath of fresh air that was after MI3. If Cruise had wanted to bow out, I think GP would have been perfect. It’s all about trying to rebuild the IMF with their last mission by the secretary. It’s Ethan finding peace with where he’s at as he watches his love one move on in the distance.

    Not that he shouldn’t have made more films, but this would have left the series at its highest IMHO.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,211
    GP is great, and I love the lighter tone of it. But it does fall apart a bit in the last act, something I think Rogue Nation improved upon.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,099
    GP is the film for me that took the MI series to the next level. RN added to it, and is a slightly better movie all round. Fallout is right up there as well. DRp:1is not a bad film, and I enjoyed it, but it's not quite as sharp as the previous three films.
    I really do wonder if making the films part 1 and part 2 is a factor in this.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,211
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Watched it a second time. Yes, it’s flawed but still a good entry. I’m pretty confident once Part 2 will come out this one may look even better.
    The only thing that really bugs me is Ilsa. Her character is absolutely wasted, she barely speaks and I’m pretty sure they were forced to basically cut her out from the film due to scheduling conflicts because of all the Covid delays and her busy schedule with Silo and Dune.
    Still I’m not ruling out the possibility
    Of her being actually alive. We already saw M:i characters faking their death on a bridge at night.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,903
    You probably called it in regards to scheduling conflicts, @matt_u. It really did feel like they didn't know what to do with her character, realized she wouldn't appear as much as they would've liked, and in came Grace.
  • Posts: 4,602
    It is strange.
    when you see the scene when Ethan first meets Grace at the airport, they go for a flirty/instant chemistry vibe which, for the rest of the movie, undermines Ilsa completely, it's very weird IMHO, it's as though all of the great work within the previous two movies re Ilsa and her friendhship with Ethan is just thrown away
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,903
    patb wrote: »
    It is strange.
    when you see the scene when Ethan first meets Grace at the airport, they go for a flirty/instant chemistry vibe which, for the rest of the movie, undermines Ilsa completely, it's very weird IMHO, it's as though all of the great work within the previous two movies re Ilsa and her friendhship with Ethan is just thrown away

    It would've felt slightly more believable if:
    Ilsa had died in the opening, but even then, it'd be jarring to see Ethan move on so quickly.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    edited August 2023 Posts: 2,641
    I do think MI7 suffered a little bit from too many new characters. I'd hope the next film focuses on the team a bit more.

    As for Grace as a character
    I'm not too fond of her, she felt shoehorned in at Ilsa's expense. Throughout most of the film she was a hindrance to Ethan and the team more than a help.
    That's no reflection on Haley Atwell as an actress, she's wonderful
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,903
    I thought I was going to hate Grace's character yet I loved her. I only wish her arrival didn't come at the detriment of Ilsa's prioritization within the story.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,211
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I do think MI7 suffered a little bit from too many new characters. I'd hope the next film focuses on the team a bit more.

    I definitely got the impression it didn't know what to do with the two CIA guys chasing Ethan. I think you could have lost those and had little impact on the story.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,179
    mtm wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I do think MI7 suffered a little bit from too many new characters. I'd hope the next film focuses on the team a bit more.

    I definitely got the impression it didn't know what to do with the two CIA guys chasing Ethan. I think you could have lost those and had little impact on the story.

    They pretty much just serve as living, breathing action beats. Ethan chases bad guys, they turn up to slow him down and increase drama by keeping him further away from what he's after.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,903
    In between that crew and Grace constantly making things harder on Ethan, I thought they worked as great obstacles while he's simultaneously pressing forward with his main mission.

    The second time I saw it in theaters, I got a hearty laugh out of Degas entering the train car and trying to calmly get everyone to start moving to the front before Jasper enters, pulls out his gun, cocks it, and starts yelling to get the point across.

    I hope those two return in Part 2.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,099
    mtm wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I do think MI7 suffered a little bit from too many new characters. I'd hope the next film focuses on the team a bit more.

    I definitely got the impression it didn't know what to do with the two CIA guys chasing Ethan. I think you could have lost those and had little impact on the story.

    No, I think you're wrong on that one. As others have said, they serve to slow Ethan down, and stop him moving on with his mission. It would have been too easy for Ethan if Briggs and Degas weren't there.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T.
    Posts: 7,014
    Furthermore, I feel the story is building up to a point where those agents are going to fully understand why Ethan is doing what he is doing, and help him with it. I think saving the train passengers was the beginning.
  • Posts: 4,602
    Some ideas re improvements (slow day )
    • re Villain - have the creator of the Entity an ex colleague of Luthers from CIA training - gives a back story but not with Hunt, better acting opportunities for VR and gives context re the origin of the Entity
    • delete Ethan's back story re dead girl
    • replace Grace with a younger, cocky, French, teenage "punk" girl. A chance to inject youth into the team, we know Ethan speaks French, beginnings of an "uncle" realationship with Hunt, chances for banter re age, does not challange Ilsa in her role
    • have Ilsa as full part of team, plenty of subtle flirting with Ethan but not full romance. Ilsa dies much later on the train in act of sacrifice
    • fully commit to a sad ending with proper emotional impact and bigger revenge motivation for Pt 2


  • willowlovewillowlove Kent, WA, USA
    Posts: 20
    McQuarrie on why there was that big death in MI7. (Spoilers, obviously.)

    https://ew.com/movies/impossible-dead-rebecca-ferguson-death/
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