Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 370
    Does he? I honestly don't remember it that well :))

    Well sorry for that confusion, TLD is not a favourite of mine.
  • edited September 29 Posts: 1,257
    mtm wrote: »
    I always thought that Casino Royale hit that sweet spot of TLD tone too. Serious but not too realistic, jokes that don't break the spell, a nice European thriller atmosphere etc.

    Bear in mind that Bond does disobey orders and technically 'goes rogue' in TLD, so be careful what you wish for if you don't like that sort of thing :)

    I always thought Casino Royale was more in line with From Russia With Love in terms of its tone than The Living Daylights personally.
  • TLD was very inconsistent indeed. Super cartoony villains. FRWL remained serious throughout.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 29 Posts: 11,648
    mtm wrote: »
    I always thought that Casino Royale hit that sweet spot of TLD tone too. Serious but not too realistic, jokes that don't break the spell, a nice European thriller atmosphere etc.

    Bear in mind that Bond does disobey orders and technically 'goes rogue' in TLD, so be careful what you wish for if you don't like that sort of thing :)

    I always thought Casino Royale was more in line with From Russia With Love in terms of its tone than The Living Daylights personally.

    Sure, but then I'd say FRWL and TLD aren't a million miles from each other too.
    TLD was very inconsistent indeed. Super cartoony villains. FRWL remained serious throughout.

    Yes, because the unseen white cat-stroking Japanese fighting fish-loving evil mastermind, the Machiavellian chess grand master and the uber butch, knife-shoed KGB lesbian, together with their island full of flame-throwing assassins were all straight out of real life, weren't they? :))
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 373
    I think the Russian presence and the honest romance in both films, makes FRWL & TLD similar.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,157
    I love TLD.

    Still, for me, and I think for others, the Afghanistan portion is weak compared to the rest of the film. I suppose they had to go to that region for the opium part of the story, and Bond escaping from a Russian airbase is a good idea, but in retrospect of course, it would have been better if Bond had been forced to go it alone without help from the proto-Taliban.

    It might have fit in better with the strong intrigue of the first half in Bratislava and Austria if Bond (and Koskov) were skulking around the Afghan airbase in the shadows.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 444
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I always thought that Casino Royale hit that sweet spot of TLD tone too. Serious but not too realistic, jokes that don't break the spell, a nice European thriller atmosphere etc.

    Bear in mind that Bond does disobey orders and technically 'goes rogue' in TLD, so be careful what you wish for if you don't like that sort of thing :)

    I always thought Casino Royale was more in line with From Russia With Love in terms of its tone than The Living Daylights personally.

    Sure, but then I'd say FRWL and TLD aren't a million miles from each other too.
    TLD was very inconsistent indeed. Super cartoony villains. FRWL remained serious throughout.

    Yes, because the unseen white cat-stroking Japanese fighting fish-loving evil mastermind, the Machiavellian chess grand master and the uber butch, knife-shoed KGB lesbian, together with their island full of flame-throwing assassins were all straight out of real life, weren't they? :))

    Honestly, yeah, FRWL is WAY overrated.
  • edited September 29 Posts: 613
    mtm wrote: »
    TLD was very inconsistent indeed. Super cartoony villains. FRWL remained serious throughout.

    Yes, because the unseen white cat-stroking Japanese fighting fish-loving evil mastermind, the Machiavellian chess grand master and the uber butch, knife-shoed KGB lesbian, together with their island full of flame-throwing assassins were all straight out of real life, weren't they? :))

    You are right.
  • Archangel007Archangel007 United States
    Posts: 25
    mtm wrote: »
    I always thought that Casino Royale hit that sweet spot of TLD tone too. Serious but not too realistic, jokes that don't break the spell, a nice European thriller atmosphere etc.

    Bear in mind that Bond does disobey orders and technically 'goes rogue' in TLD, so be careful what you wish for if you don't like that sort of thing :)

    I always thought Casino Royale was more in line with From Russia With Love in terms of its tone than The Living Daylights personally.

    I mentioned the Koskov defection sequence from TLD, for FRWL I would reference the scenes on the train. Both parts involved suspense and contained a palpable sense of danger lurking around the corner.

    With CR, I think that tone does exist but it is overpowered by a couple of story points: Bond learning to be a 00 and the love story (which actually makes Bond want to quit being a 00). I'd prefer Bond not go through emotional journeys but still be a human being and not a superhero.

    To quote Dalton: "After all, Bond's essential quality is that he's a man who lives on the edge. He could get killed at any moment, and that stress and danger factor is reflected in the way he lives, chain-smoking, drinking, fast cars and fast women."
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited September 29 Posts: 7,258
    If they put Bond on a train, generally speaking, it's a safe bet there will be some good Bond happening. Except maybe Octopussy.

    It's funny because I feel like people forget Bond fully quit being a spy at the end of Casino Royale in 1953.

    Anyways, welcome @Archangel007, your username and posts appear to be of the highest quality.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    Posts: 800
    Yea I agree with the above - TLD is the tone we should be looking for. Perfect blend of serious and fun elements of cinematic Bond as well as literary/Fleming Bond. CR is also in this vein, but would be much tougher to recreate since it’s an origin story.
  • edited September 29 Posts: 613
    Minus the cartoony yet dull villains and fake afghan sets.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,258
    Minus the cartoony yet dull villains and fake afghan sets.

    I always think of TLD's villains when I watch QOS. Similar strategy with two more minor villains rather than one over the top villain.
  • Koskov was ok, but the American and the German milkbomber are too much.
  • Posts: 1,122
    It'd be cool if Bond 26 had a similar 'cat and mouse' espionage plot to TLD and FRWL. I'm not sure if it'd be wise jumping straight into world domination, invisible cars and nanobots for an actor's first outing.

    I don't even mind the milk bottle bombs in TLD. The fake Afghan sets (and indeed much of that section of the movie) date it somewhat though...
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,201
    As I've said, while I know some people didn't like it and want to move away from it, I think Skyfall stroke the perfect balance between the classic cinematic Bond that people know and love that is a staple of cinematic culture, and the more literary/Fleming-esque Bond that was achieved in films like The Living Daylights and Casino Royale, while also utilising modern trends that make up current filmmaking. I think this is what they need to strive towards with Bond 26 and beyond.
  • edited September 29 Posts: 613
    The darkness and grit was never bad even in the last three films.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 2,923
    Denbigh wrote: »
    As I've said, while I know some people didn't like it and want to move away from it, I think Skyfall stroke the perfect balance between the classic cinematic Bond that people know and love that is a staple of cinematic culture, and the more literary/Fleming-esque Bond that was achieved in films like The Living Daylights and Casino Royale, while also utilising modern trends that make up current filmmaking. I think this is what they need to strive towards with Bond 26 and beyond.
    I think the the story and dialogue in Skyfall could have been more dense but the darkness and grit is not bad.

    I agree with you both. That’s why I keep repeating myself for the future of James Bond: new writers and less artsy ideas from drama directors.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,258
    Koskov was ok, but the American and the German milkbomber are too much.

    I kind of likes the gun-happy overmilitaristic American psycho. And I put Necros more on level with a henchman, and I actually thought his scenes were super effective.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 6,451
    I thought Necros was wonderful (when silent. He lost a bit of his mystique when he spoke), and wished we had a little more of him in the shadows, tripping up Bond. The exploding milk bottles were lovely.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 370
    TLD just never really worked for me. I thought the bad guys were bland, and there was a certain amount of silliness left over from Moore which I think jarred with Dalton's Bond. I get that lots of people love it, though.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,258
    TLD just never really worked for me. I thought the bad guys were bland, and there was a certain amount of silliness left over from Moore which I think jarred with Dalton's Bond. I get that lots of people love it, though.

    Yeah… it exists in my mind as some sort of le carre-esque dark and serious spy thriller, and then I watch it and it loses a bit of that. A friend of mine and I went through a big Dalton phase so we have lots of in-jokes about these movies, so that makes it fun too.
  • Posts: 1,122
    To be honest, I've always thought TLD had some of the weakest villains of the series. Necros is another generic spin on Red Grant (which we also saw in FYEO, YOLT, and TND) Koskov, while deceitful and nasty, isn't menacing enough to carry the film himself, and neither is Whitaker really. In a sense it's a similar set up to FRWL in this way - it's more an ensemble cast of villains. The difference is the villains in FRWL are much more distinctive, well cast and interesting, at least for me.

    They more than made up for it with Sanchez in LTK though.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,258
    It's my secret dream that they bring back Sanchez all burned and scarred from LTK (we still have Davi, so...)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 6,451
    It's my secret dream that they bring back Sanchez all burned and scarred from LTK (we still have Davi, so...)

    To battle with Craig-zombie Bond.

    I’d pay $$ to see it, 😂
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 37,945
    It's my secret dream that they bring back Sanchez all burned and scarred from LTK (we still have Davi, so...)

    He's spent decades hunting down Bond, only to get lit on fire yet again the second Bond lays eyes on him.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 2,923
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's my secret dream that they bring back Sanchez all burned and scarred from LTK (we still have Davi, so...)

    He's spent decades hunting down Bond, only to get lit on fire yet again the second Bond lays eyes on him.

    Davi’s open to talking about Bond on Twitter. Amongst other things, to be careful about. Maybe Sanchez should come back, in the next Bond reboot.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 37,945
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's my secret dream that they bring back Sanchez all burned and scarred from LTK (we still have Davi, so...)

    He's spent decades hunting down Bond, only to get lit on fire yet again the second Bond lays eyes on him.

    Davi’s open to talking about Bond on Twitter. Amongst other things, to be careful about. Maybe Sanchez should come back, in the next Bond reboot.

    Yeah I've avoided his political comments for the longest time but the guy no doubt makes for one thrilling and menacing villain.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 11,648
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be honest, I've always thought TLD had some of the weakest villains of the series. Necros is another generic spin on Red Grant (which we also saw in FYEO, YOLT, and TND) Koskov, while deceitful and nasty, isn't menacing enough to carry the film himself, and neither is Whitaker really. In a sense it's a similar set up to FRWL in this way - it's more an ensemble cast of villains. The difference is the villains in FRWL are much more distinctive, well cast and interesting, at least for me.

    Weirdly I was watching Hudson Hawk a while ago(!) and James Coburn is in it as a uniform-wearing arms dealer baddie, and it made me think how much better TLD would have been if he had been Whittaker. It would have helped a lot if they'd had a proper movie star baddie, I think.

    But then I also tend to think that Dalton wouldn't really have come out very well against him. Roger could compete charisma-wise with your Walkens, but I'm not sure about Tim.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 2,923
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be honest, I've always thought TLD had some of the weakest villains of the series. Necros is another generic spin on Red Grant (which we also saw in FYEO, YOLT, and TND) Koskov, while deceitful and nasty, isn't menacing enough to carry the film himself, and neither is Whitaker really. In a sense it's a similar set up to FRWL in this way - it's more an ensemble cast of villains. The difference is the villains in FRWL are much more distinctive, well cast and interesting, at least for me.

    Weirdly I was watching Hudson Hawk a while ago(!) and James Coburn is in it as a uniform-wearing arms dealer baddie, and it made me think how much better TLD would have been if he had been Whittaker. It would have helped a lot if they'd had a proper movie star baddie, I think.

    But then I also tend to think that Dalton wouldn't really have come out very well against him. Roger could compete charisma-wise with your Walkens, but I'm not sure about Tim.

    I agree about James Coburn. He would have made a great Bond villain. The sad thing about him is that in the 80s, his health issues slowed down his work amount.
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