And the Klebbie goes to...Worst execution of a good idea page 147

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    thedove wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Moore went out as he came in: in the arms of a lady. The only circular Bond actor arc?

    Connery's Bond had the most endings on water. In fact many films seem to end with a watery end. Craig might be the first Bond to have no endings on water?

    He got bombed near the water in NTTD. Does that count?

    That actually hurt to say.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    I think it’s safe to say at least a bit of him ended in the water.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I think it’s safe to say at least a bit of him ended in the water.

    I'd imagine he just got vaporized, actually, so if anything hit the water, it'd be his ashes.

    The fact that I'm joking so much about a scene that makes me bawl my eyes out every time I see it must mean that I'm healthily grieving for one of my favorite onscreen heroes. Or I'm just a demented, lost soul. Or both.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    Yes you're right, the heat wouldn't have left any of him to hit the water.

    Which of the seven stages of grief is "ridicule"?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Yes you're right, the heat wouldn't have left any of him to hit the water.

    Which of the seven stages of grief is "ridicule"?

    @NickTwentyTwo, I don't view it as part of the stages of grief, per say. I just think that if you are able to joke about something dark and sad that once depressed you, you've made a lot of progress in dealing with that pain which only used to make you feel down. I guess you could loop it into "Acceptance," as you have dealt with what happened to the point that you can talk frivolously about it.

    I also think that part of what makes me able to deal with Bond's death is because it was incredibly heroic and fitting, and was exactly the way I'd want him to go out if he had to. Very much like the "burning boy on the deck" Fleming's original was always inspired by.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,110
    thedove wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Moore went out as he came in: in the arms of a lady. The only circular Bond actor arc?

    Connery's Bond had the most endings on water. In fact many films seem to end with a watery end. Craig might be the first Bond to have no endings on water?

    CR and NTTD were close to water.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    Yes you're right, the heat wouldn't have left any of him to hit the water.

    Which of the seven stages of grief is "ridicule"?

    @NickTwentyTwo, I don't view it as part of the stages of grief, per say. I just think that if you are able to joke about something dark and sad that once depressed you, you've made a lot of progress in dealing with that pain which only used to make you feel down. I guess you could loop it into "Acceptance," as you have dealt with what happened to the point that you can talk frivolously about it.

    I also think that part of what makes me able to deal with Bond's death is because it was incredibly heroic and fitting, and was exactly the way I'd want him to go out if he had to. Very much like the "burning boy on the deck" Fleming's original was always inspired by.

    Agreed. Sorry, I was just making a bad joke.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited August 2022 Posts: 28,694
    echo wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Moore went out as he came in: in the arms of a lady. The only circular Bond actor arc?

    Connery's Bond had the most endings on water. In fact many films seem to end with a watery end. Craig might be the first Bond to have no endings on water?

    CR and NTTD were close to water.

    Which I guess you'd be able to say for OHMSS too. "Close" is the best we got.

    Technically SF too, with the Thames outside MI6. So, if Craig doesn't have the most endings on water, he definitely has the most endings near water. :))
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,128
    Well played @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 @echo hadn't thought of the near water.

    I wish I could feel the grief or the sadness of NTTD ending. I find the whole thing is rather flat and not very emotional for me. Maybe because I have trouble separating my feelings for Daniel demanding the character die and the character dying. I still think it was a selfish move by an entitled star. How I wish it made more sense within the story, but Bond has been in tighter nail biter endings and survived so to him climb and meekly accept death was jarring for me.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,357
    Jinx and Bond in DAD
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    thedove wrote: »
    Well played @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 @echo hadn't thought of the near water.

    I wish I could feel the grief or the sadness of NTTD ending. I find the whole thing is rather flat and not very emotional for me. Maybe because I have trouble separating my feelings for Daniel demanding the character die and the character dying. I still think it was a selfish move by an entitled star. How I wish it made more sense within the story, but Bond has been in tighter nail biter endings and survived so to him climb and meekly accept death was jarring for me.

    @thedove, I think Bond dying in Craig's era is pretty fitting. It's something I've thought about happening for years now, because the era has been all about pyrrhic victories where, despite winning, Bond loses something. Major characters, including M on down, had already fallen, and a large part of the era explored Bond's purpose and place in the world, often focusing on his tragic loneliness and how fickle the life of a 00 is. It's ground Fleming himself covered in the books, with his Bond also never thinking he'd make it to retirement because of how dangerous the job is and at once not minding the idea of dying because his sacrifice would be worthwhile to save innocent lives. So I just view it as less a selfish move by Dan, especially since it's an idea that wouldn't have happened unless more than he was on board for it, and as stated above, I think the long running narrative of the era supported the idea of Bond dying at the end and there's a lot of reason to think Fleming would've killed him off too if he himself hadn't died.

    As for Bond surviving worse circumstances, I really can't think of anything worse than what he was up against. He was on an island he couldn't get off of, and he had just minutes before missiles would destroy the place, all while he's bleeding out from serious bullet wounds and had been infected with a virus that will kill his family if he touches them. He knew he didn't have the ability to survive, short of using time travel, and just uses his final moments to say goodbye to his family. The way I see it, Bond would have rather died than live his life without being able to be with the woman he loves and their daughter, so him being infected with the virus gave him even more reason to face his fate. Is it a sunny ending? No, but the man lived a rough life and I think the conclusion was a fitting, and heroic end for a man who was always willing to put it all on the line.
  • Posts: 2,400
    peter wrote: »
    I recently heard on a podcast that this intro-shot was actually Dalton's last day of filming for TLD

    That feels like a really good decision (if coincidental location-wise). Have the guy sink into the role for an entire production and THEN shoot his hero shot. Might explain why that shot is so damned effective and why the immediate reaction is invariably "oh yeah, that's James Bond."
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    peter wrote: »
    I recently heard on a podcast that this intro-shot was actually Dalton's last day of filming for TLD

    That feels like a really good decision (if coincidental location-wise). Have the guy sink into the role for an entire production and THEN shoot his hero shot. Might explain why that shot is so damned effective and why the immediate reaction is invariably "oh yeah, that's James Bond."

    That is interesting, if true. It'd probably be just as beneficial to wait to shoot the scene in which an actor does their first, "Bond, James Bond" delivery. Every actor I've heard talk about it mentions that line being hard to deliver at first, because of the deceitful simplicity of it and the legacy it carries. Easy to say, hard to say just right. Would make sense to save it for a time when an actor truly feels warmed to the role, and natural in it.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,824
    The DAD ending, hands-down, is the worst Bond film ending for the purpose of this thread. Embarrassing, and much more so than anything we've seen before...or after.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    DAD. Crap ending to a pretty crap film. Although AVTAK comes close for cringe and TB for sheer stupidity...
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,411
    Yes, I also think it has to be DAD again. I like the camera flying arpund this little "cabin" at the shore (nice scenery) but the dialogue really is a bit too much.

    Absolutely no issues with the TND ending...
  • edited August 2022 Posts: 2,904
    Initially I wasn't sure what ending would get my vote.

    TND's is generic and forgettable. AVTAK's would have been embarrassing even with a younger Bond. DAD's double entendres are witless. TB's isn't awful but obviously meant to shoehorn in a gadget they couldn't find time for earlier. But I will award the gong NTTD. I disliked the parasitic use of "We Have All the Time in the World," just I as disliked the scene's mythic self-importance.
    "I'm going to tell you a story about a man. His name was Bond. James Bond." What a pretentious, phony-sounding line. It's there to sound grand and mythic, and not like anything spoken by a human being, let alone a mother telling her daughter about her daddy (to whom she didn't need the formal introduction).
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,448
    Revelator wrote: »
    Initially I wasn't sure what ending would get my vote.

    TND's is generic and forgettable. AVTAK's would have been embarrassing even with a younger Bond. DAD's double entendres are witless. TB's isn't awful but obviously meant to shoehorn in a gadget they couldn't find time for earlier. But I will award the gong NTTD. I disliked the parasitic use of "We Have All the Time in the World," just I as disliked the scene's mythic self-importance.
    "I'm going to tell you a story about a man. His name was Bond. James Bond." What a pretentious, phony-sounding line. It's there to sound grand and mythic, and not like anything spoken by a human being, let alone a mother telling her daughter about her daddy (to whom she didn't need the formal introduction).

    True.....
    The other endings in this round felt more Bondian with Bond finishing the mission and getting the girl at the end, but NTTD, it's just pretentious, it tried hard to made us feel the emotions, but it didn't land.
    And don't get me started about the use of We Have All The Time In The World which was a giant insult to OHMSS!

    I think removing the Louis Armstrong song would have at least reduce my disappointment in that ending.

    Shoehorned, forced, and trying hard to imitate and copy OHMSS! 8-|
  • MI6HQ wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    Initially I wasn't sure what ending would get my vote.

    TND's is generic and forgettable. AVTAK's would have been embarrassing even with a younger Bond. DAD's double entendres are witless. TB's isn't awful but obviously meant to shoehorn in a gadget they couldn't find time for earlier. But I will award the gong NTTD. I disliked the parasitic use of "We Have All the Time in the World," just I as disliked the scene's mythic self-importance.
    "I'm going to tell you a story about a man. His name was Bond. James Bond." What a pretentious, phony-sounding line. It's there to sound grand and mythic, and not like anything spoken by a human being, let alone a mother telling her daughter about her daddy (to whom she didn't need the formal introduction).

    True.....
    The other endings in this round felt more Bondian with Bond finishing the mission and getting the girl at the end, but NTTD, it's just pretentious, it tried hard to made us feel the emotions, but it didn't land.
    And don't get me started about the use of We Have All The Time In The World which was a giant insult to OHMSS!

    I think removing the Louis Armstrong song would have at least reduce my disappointment in that ending.

    I too had issues with the way the Louis Armstrong song was used. Like all the other Majesty’s callbacks, it felt like nothing but blatant fan service, and too much of it at that!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Absolutely no issues with the TND ending...

    The only Brosnan ending that isn thorrible.
  • Posts: 1,043
    Revelator wrote: »
    "I'm going to tell you a story about a man. His name was Bond. James Bond." What a pretentious, phony-sounding line. It's there to sound grand and mythic, and not like anything spoken by a human being, let alone a mother telling her daughter about her daddy (to whom she didn't need the formal introduction).

    Yes. There's nothing worse than something that tries to be poignant and moving, and quite plainly isn't. It feels like a square peg hammered in a round hole because someone wants it to fit.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2022 Posts: 15,580
    Yes, I also think it has to be DAD again. I like the camera flying arpund this little "cabin" at the shore (nice scenery) but the dialogue really is a bit too much.

    The cabin was probably the bit I was less sure about when I saw it in the cinema! Nice scenery indeed, but very obviously somewhere in Cornwall or Wales or somewhere, and not Korea! :D

    Goldfinger's a bit similar in fact; it seems that Bond and Pussy have crash landed right on Spectre island, next to where Red Grant was getting his massage a year ago...
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,482
    I'll go with AVTAK and solely on the basis of OP should have been Roger literary riding off into the sunset. AVTAK was cringe and there was no romantic nature between Bond and Stacey throughout the film and just sort of shoehorned it in there because that's how Bond films had to end. It's similar to FYEO as there never needed there to be a romantic relationship between Bond and Melina as it seemed to be more of a mentorship or a shared goal partnership rather than romance. That's why the relationship between Bond and Camille works with QOS because their shared goals were met. For me and feel free to disagree, a romantic/lovey film ending works best if there has already been a scene in which at least a potential romantic spark was seen.


    I don't mind the NTTD ending but I can see why some people don't like it.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,012
    Madeleine's dialogue at the end of NTTD does seem a bit stilted and bolted on, the more times I watch it, tbf. I'm in two minds on the re-use of We Have All The Time In The World. I see why they did it and I don't hate it but maybe if they'd got, say, Mark Lanegan to sing it in his world-weary, crushed romantic 3.00 a.m. voice, or even had Billy Eilish do a sort of spectral, dreamlike version rather than a straight re-use of the original? Dunno.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,448
    Venutius wrote: »
    Madeleine's dialogue at the end of NTTD does seem a bit stilted and bolted on, the more times I watch it, tbf. I'm in two minds on the re-use of We Have All The Time In The World. I see why they did it and I don't hate it being re-used, but maybe if they'd got, say, Mark Lanegan to sing it in his world-weary, crushed romantic 3.00 a.m. voice, or even had Billy Eilish do a sort of spectral, dreamlike version rather than a straight re-use of the original? Dunno.

    The might as well re-use the 'Underneath the Mango Tree' in the future film too? 😅
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,012
    Maybe if Diamanda Galas sang it... ;)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I seem to be in a vast minority of people who didn't care either way about how "We Have All The Time in the World" was used. I thought the film laid the groundwork for its thematic inclusion, and for my money Bond and Madeleine had a far more tragic relationship than Bond and Tracy did, and not just because Bond died. It's the fact that he finally felt understood and accepted by a woman who knew his life and the kind of man he was due to his father and his world, and the fact that he left a child behind who barely knew him. Tracy is wonderful, as is their relationship, but in comparison it is a rather fleeting romance the movie literally speeds through at times. I enjoyed getting to know more about Madeleine across two films, which deepened the connection she and Bond had for me, which sold the ending.

    I can take the final lines of the film either way. I can see why people think it's too much, but even Bond's final lines in OHMSS aren't how humans talk either. It being overly sentimental and something that leaps off the screen to slap you is kind of the point. I just view Madeleine's lines as a sort of tribute to Bond's legacy, a legacy which was one of the cornerstone themes of the movie. Felt like it belonged far more than it didn't.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,482
    Agreed. I also liked the incorporation of ATTITW as well as the OHMSS theme during the outside meeting with Bond and M. I found it fitting as it's Bond officially returning to Her Majesty's Service for his final mission. I've read and watched people who didn't like that incorporation and I cannot figure out why. I remember people gushing when that theme played over the Spectre trailer
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,448
    Agreed. I also liked the incorporation of ATTITW as well as the OHMSS theme during the outside meeting with Bond and M. I found it fitting as it's Bond officially returning to Her Majesty's Service for his final mission. I've read and watched people who didn't like that incorporation and I cannot figure out why. I remember people gushing when that theme played over the Spectre trailer

    Well as might as well incorporate the other themes in the future films as well like Wine With Stacy from AVTAK being incorporated into a future film, or the Kiss Kiss Bang Bang theme from TB, or Underneath The Mango Tree from DN, they did it with OHMSS then why not for other themes?

    Or Nobody Does It Better as an instrumental for a future Bond film? Or Goldeneye?

    It's unfair to OHMSS that it's only its theme that's got stolen 😅.

    In fact, I want to hear Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang theme again from TB played into a future Bond film, it would be a great theme for a reboot because it tells Bond of who he is, like back to basics mission.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    Agreed. I also liked the incorporation of ATTITW as well as the OHMSS theme during the outside meeting with Bond and M. I found it fitting as it's Bond officially returning to Her Majesty's Service for his final mission. I've read and watched people who didn't like that incorporation and I cannot figure out why. I remember people gushing when that theme played over the Spectre trailer

    The OHMSS theme playing over Bond and M reuniting was awesome. Good to Have you Back on the soundtrack I think.
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