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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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Comments

  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    edited January 2022 Posts: 2,511
    @StirredNotShaken I prefer that one mate, good job. Not sure about the Vesper stuff but the Skyfall callback is cool

    With respect to everyone on here who enjoyed NTTD's ending, in my opinion we shouldn't have witnessed Bond's demise, the shot from Bond's perspective felt gratuitous and out of place to me

    Every time I've watched NTTD, I want to travel to Matera with my girlfriend. That place looks otherworldly, such a fantastic Bond location and I thought they used it wonderfully in the film. I just wish we were there for longer if anything
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Venutius wrote: »
    DoctorKaufmann wrote: »
    And being a Yorkshireman?
    Being a Yorkshireman, I know that Craig flunked a Yorkshire accent in Sylvia, but at least you could sort of tell what he was going for - which wasn't always the case in The Ice House ;) .

    Only watched that on German television, and as Craig got dubbed in this, I did not notice any bad accent.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Fleming toyed with the idea of having Bond die twice, then decided to keep him alive, but his comeback from the dead in TMWTGG was rather lame. And it's funny, that people are going nutters (after 3 1/2 montghs of the film starting), when they think, the producers ignored, what Fleming wrote, if it is not to their taste. On the other hand, if they take something from Fleming and use it, to the dismay of the same people. So the films should relie on Fleming, if it's somrething these people like, but they should not use Fleming, when they do something, same people do hate. And we can't ask Fleming, the man died 58 years ago.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited January 2022 Posts: 1,261
    ColonelAdamski wrote: »
    And the way things are going, I think the next movie will have him in a cape with his very own Batcave and X-ray eyes.

    So Bond should become a Marvel or DC Superhero? Is that, what you are saying? Or are you being ironic or sarcastic? Because Bond would have needed to become a superhero escaping from the island. Or is he Aqua Man? That would have helped.
  • ColonelAdamskiColonelAdamski UK
    Posts: 1,003
    I'm being sarcastic about the way eon has appeared to use superhero movie tropes, according to some people.
    I mean, how many times has Bond been compared to Batman on here recently?
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    I loved Eva Green as Vesper, but the best thing about the end of Craig's tenure is, that we don't have Vesper being a thing in B26.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 2,161
    Yes.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,265
    They dwelled on it a bit too much for my liking too, given SF was the only one out of five movies she wasn’t referenced in.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    DoctorKaufmann wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    DoctorKaufmann wrote: »
    And being a Yorkshireman?
    Being a Yorkshireman, I know that Craig flunked a Yorkshire accent in Sylvia, but at least you could sort of tell what he was going for - which wasn't always the case in The Ice House ;) .

    Only watched that on German television, and as Craig got dubbed in this, I did not notice any bad accent.

    German is a terrible Yorkshire accent. I think.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    DoctorKaufmann wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    DoctorKaufmann wrote: »
    And being a Yorkshireman?
    Being a Yorkshireman, I know that Craig flunked a Yorkshire accent in Sylvia, but at least you could sort of tell what he was going for - which wasn't always the case in The Ice House ;) .

    Only watched that on German television, and as Craig got dubbed in this, I did not notice any bad accent.

    German is a terrible Yorkshire accent. I think.

    Probably. The German equivalent would be Saxonian. Followed by Swabian.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    DoctorKaufmann wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    DoctorKaufmann wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    DoctorKaufmann wrote: »
    And being a Yorkshireman?
    Being a Yorkshireman, I know that Craig flunked a Yorkshire accent in Sylvia, but at least you could sort of tell what he was going for - which wasn't always the case in The Ice House ;) .

    Only watched that on German television, and as Craig got dubbed in this, I did not notice any bad accent.

    German is a terrible Yorkshire accent. I think.

    Probably. The German equivalent would be Saxonian. Followed by Swabian.

    Is it? I can understand a Yorkshire dialect pretty much without problem, but even though I understand German up to a certain point, I hardly understood a word of that Swabian dialect while in Germany.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson Moderator
    Posts: 2,161
    Sounds foreign.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Sounds foreign.

    I am pretty good at Foreign, but not every dialect.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,400
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Sounds foreign.

    I am pretty good at Foreign, but not every dialect.

    Are you particularly well-versed in PIGEON ENGLISH? moon+pigeon.gif
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    I don’t mind the brief callbacks to Vesper because even in the Fleming novels she’s still emphasized as a woman Bond still thinks of by what is essentially BOOK 10. Funnily, in NTTD it’s the first time he sees her grave, whereas it’s revealed in the novels he visits it ANNUALLY. So really, who’s more hung up over Vesper?

    Regarding that, I do think QOS was unnecessary. Imagine if after CR they held off on bringing her up until SPECTRE, when Bond comes across that labeled videotape with her name, and we see the look on his face and how he tries to brush it off. That would have been more impactful because so much time had passed by then and it’s the first instance where we see he’s still affected by her.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,976
    I agree that QoS was unnecessary in the overall Vesper arc. I didn't mind it but NTTD in only one scene accomplished what all of QoS did.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited January 2022 Posts: 2,925
    You guys would've been really bummed out if Marc Forster had kept the scenes in QOS where Vesper was haunting Bond in nightmares! ;)
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I don’t mind the brief callbacks to Vesper because even in the Fleming novels she’s still emphasized as a woman Bond still thinks of by what is essentially BOOK 10. Funnily, in NTTD it’s the first time he sees her grave, whereas it’s revealed in the novels he visits it ANNUALLY. So really, who’s more hung up over Vesper?

    Regarding that, I do think QOS was unnecessary. Imagine if after CR they held off on bringing her up until SPECTRE, when Bond comes across that labeled videotape with her name, and we see the look on his face and how he tries to brush it off. That would have been more impactful because so much time had passed by then and it’s the first instance where we see he’s still affected by her.

    Spot on.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    StirredNotShaken wrote: »
    I had an idea for an alternative ending. I still absolutely love the ending of NTTD and my overall opinion that this is the greatest Bond film hasn't changed whatsoever, but this was just something I was tinkering with in my mind.

    ALT. ENDING

    Every frame of the movie up until Safin shoots Bond is exactly the same. He gets him in the leg, he shoots him a second time while he's down, and a third time when Bond lunges at him. They grapple, Safin moves to smash the Heracles vial on him, but Bond blocks it, the vial goes flying, it smashes harmlessly on the ground in the garden somewhere. Bond breaks Safin's gun arm as he does in the film.

    Safin is dazed, in shock at having lost his backup plan. Gives some spiel about how Bond will never make it off the island in time. Bond hobbles up, grabs the gun. "I still have time." Shoots Safin, pretty dispassionately, but not with the complete lack of interest from the film. Bond limps away, gets on the radio with Q as he approaches the blast door switch. Pulls it while having the same initial conversation, "the missiles have launched, just get out of there."

    Bond heads back towards the sub pen so he can take the stealthy bird out. He loses comms with Q as he heads back down into the structure, but gets them back as he nears the sub pen (just as he had earlier in the film). Asks to talk to Madeleine. Tells her that he IS going to make it. But starts telling her all of the things he tells her in the film, "you have made the most beautiful thing I have ever seen," etc., because he's not sure if he WILL make it. Madeleine tells him she loves him, he's at the sub pen, trying to get the door of the stealthy bird open, he's about to tell her he loves her too...and then the missiles hit. Bond is blown into the water. Explosions going off all around him, rubble falling, he's knocked out and we smash to black.

    We fade back up and we're underwater. Bond is barely stirring, having trouble focusing, there's just deep dark water all around him. He's slowly sinking deeper and deeper, which is a visual motif akin to Skyfall when he is shot and again when he falls into the lake with Silva's goon in the climax. He's tired, wounded, he considers just letting himself literally drift away...but a figure comes from below. A dark haired woman in a red dress.

    Eva Green is there, as Vesper, looking up at him. She rises up to his level, they stare eye to eye, no dialogue whatsoever. She closes her eyes, kisses his hands, and opens them again, just like in Casino Royale. And then the image of her dissipates in the water. This is Bond FULLY letting go of her, letting go of everything. He looks up to the surface. He sees the faint image of a dinghy above him, and he gains a newfound resolve to live as he swims up.

    When Bond barely makes it to the surface, he gasps out, but is too weak to pull himself up, which is when a pair of hands get him under the shoulders and pull him up: Nomi. Bond fades in and out, we see images of the sky/boat/water moving around him, and when things finally come into proper focus again, Bond is looking right at Madeleine: Nomi has gotten him to that island where they were. Mathilde is behind her, scared, barely peeking one eye out at the wounded Bond. Bond calls his daughter over. "It's alright." Mathilde curls up against him. Nomi is working on Bond's wounds with some kind of medkit or something. Madeleine is on the verge of sobbing out of concern for Bond.

    "She does have your eyes." "I know...

    ...I know."

    Bond loses consciousness. Cue up the same establishing shot of London. MI6 crew gathered. Similar speech, but without the Jack London quote as it wouldn't make sense here. Same toast: "To James," but with an addendum: "...wherever he is."

    Cut to Matera. James is driving the V8 with Madeleine in the passenger seat. Mathilde is in the back. They arrive at a hotel or restaurant or something that they have a reservation for. Some type of host walks up to the car. "Name?"

    Bond looks at his family, smiles slightly, and turns back to the host.

    "Bond.

    James Bond."

    SMASH TO BLACK

    Again, I positively adore the ending of NTTD. This was just something I thought of today. I'm really not even sure if it's actually any good or not. I was considering having him still die with his family beside him, but then I don't think the whole bit with the Vesper apparition makes much sense, this whole thing of him moving forward with his life beyond her and beyond his time as an agent, if he just dies right afterwards anyway.

    This is a very well imagined alternate ending. Seeing Vesper underwater might be a little heavy-handed but in the hands of the right director I could also see it being a touching callback. I love every bit of what you wrote, especially Bond with family at some fancy restaurant or hotel in Matera strolling up to give his name.

    Just for fun, here's my own suggestion. Everything you wrote up to this one part, just to layer a little more Fleming into the mix:

    When Bond barely makes it to the surface, he gasps out, but is too weak to pull himself up, which is when a familiar voice calls out.

    Nomi: “Glad to see you made it, commander.”

    She extends a hand down. Bond grasps it gratefully.

    Bond: “Boy, are you a sight for sore—”

    The water suddenly surges around Bond
    and the tip of a giant tentacle curls around him and lifts him screaming clean out of the ocean.

    As a giant squid ascends from below, Nomi hoists her machine gun and empties a clip into its massive head, but the squid has already shoved Bond into its terrible beak. Nomi throws a grenade in with him and guns the engine of her raft to hightail it outta there as squid chunks blow everywhere.

    Nomi, pressing her comm: “Dear god, I hope you didn’t see that.”

    Madeleine screaming back over the comm: “We saw everything! What the holy $%#&???”

    Jack London quote. Drive into the sunset. Etc.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Kicking: Impossible
    Posts: 6,721
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    Madeleine screaming back over the comm: “We saw everything! What the holy $%#&???”

    I love the thought of Madeleine saying that with her French accent.

    It's very... Fleming.
  • Some_Kind_Of_HeroSome_Kind_Of_Hero
    Posts: 6,844
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Some_Kind_Of_Hero wrote: »
    Madeleine screaming back over the comm: “We saw everything! What the holy $%#&???”

    I love the thought of Madeleine saying that with her French accent.

    It's very... Fleming.

    Thanks, I really tried hard to channel Fleming here, and of course Madeleine would speak the oath in French. It's an emotional moment.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    Films these days are really lacking squid-based emotional moments.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,279
    DoctorKaufmann wrote: »
    Fleming toyed with the idea of having Bond die twice, then decided to keep him alive, but his comeback from the dead in TMWTGG was rather lame. And it's funny, that people are going nutters (after 3 1/2 montghs of the film starting), when they think, the producers ignored, what Fleming wrote, if it is not to their taste. On the other hand, if they take something from Fleming and use it, to the dismay of the same people. So the films should relie on Fleming, if it's somrething these people like, but they should not use Fleming, when they do something, same people do hate. And we can't ask Fleming, the man died 58 years ago.

    If they had used Fleming in NTTD I would have been ecstatic. And when I say use, I mean in the sense of a fairly close adaptation of a scene - think Dr. No, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS, FYEO, OP, TLD, LTK, CR. All of these films have managed to properly adapt either full novels, shorts stories or scenes.

    What the producers have done since CR is Fleming re-imagined, which is not the same thing.
  • ColonelAdamskiColonelAdamski UK
    Posts: 1,003
    This is a few months old, and apologies if it's been linked before, but it's a good read and comes at it from the same angle some of us here do.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/10/ah-mr-bond-i-was-expecting-you-to-entertain-me
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    edited January 2022 Posts: 3,279
    ColonelAdamski wrote: »
    This is a few months old, and apologies if it's been linked before, but it's a good read and comes at it from the same angle some of us here do.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/10/ah-mr-bond-i-was-expecting-you-to-entertain-me

    Pretty much spot on, and sums up how I felt watching the film. I still strongly believe once the dust has settled (maybe in a couple of years time), this film won't be looked on as favourably as it is right now by its fans. I foresee a backlash on the Craig era once the next actor is chosen, and it will be mainly down to these silly creative decisions made in his last outing.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    I foresee not.

    ;)
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    I don't imagine there will be a backlash against the Craig era. The same people who don't like it now probably will continue to not like it, but on the whole I think people will be happy to have this 5-film arc that does something a little different than the 20 films preceding them. They certainly weren't perfect, but they did a lot of things right, and the first billion dollar Bond film certainly isn't bad for the franchise, regardless of your thoughts of the film itself.
  • ContrabandContraband Sweden
    Posts: 3,018
    Since you all are in here..

    Has anyone seen this Q&A (from yesterday). Haven't found the video yet. Do join the hunt

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited January 2022 Posts: 4,343
    NTTD now holds a new Guinness World Records title for the most high explosives detonated in a single film take… more than doubling the amount they used for SP on the crater explosion.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    Yeah, I saw that too... but I guess SP was still larger? NTTD was just... more? lol
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